Couple flies flag upside down.

A North Carolina couple who were terrorized by a police officer who had recently returned from Iraq are now fighting back, after sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough broke into their house, assaulted them and then arrested the Kuhns for the crime of flying an upside down U.S. flag.

Mark and Deborah Kuhn of Asheville, North Carolina made headlines last week when they were arrested for flying an upside down U.S. flag, a commonly recognized sign of distress, in their backyard, after police claimed they were violating a statute for "desecration of the flag".

www.prisonplanet.com...

I'm curious for your guys' take on this. I believe the official offense was that they had pinned a couple of signs on the flag. This was the "desecration" referred to by the LEO.

I think we're going to see more and more of this type of "hyper-reaction", as more and more soldiers return from Iraq and enter Law Enforcement.

Here's a few more links:
www.citizen-times.com...
www.mountainx.com...
ashvegas.squarespace.com...

I believe there was a Supreme Court ruling not so long ago that stated defacing the flag was NOT an offence. If so this would trump any local or state by-law, which put's the police officer in the wrong.

Realistically, it's only a rag and nothing to get too worked up over. Hell, even GWB himself has defaced American flags by signing his autograph on them

would u be sane after 4 plus years in a place like that? nope

does that mean it's ok NOPE

Absolutely sickening. Police have become the SS here in America and will stop at nothing to terrorize our citizens.

The real terrorists make up our very own government.

I'll be ready with a 12 gauge locked and loaded if a police officer tries to break into my home.

Originally posted by cpdaman
would u be sane after 4 plus years in a place like that? nope

I know you don't agree with the cops' actions, but should we really have these people in power any longer? Thousands of crazed soldiers come home after slaughtering innocents and are immediately given police and contractor jobs...Makes a whole lot of sense if one is trying to terrorize innocent American civilians instead of Iraqi/Afghani.

Flag Burning/Desecration Laws

[edit on 31-7-2007 by biggie smalls]

I live in Asheville, but I hadn't heard anything about it, will check into it. Mark and Deborah Kuhn, the names sound familiar.
I wouldn't doubt it, Asheville is pretty well known to be a bit of a hippie town, but there's a huge pool of right wing nut jobs here for sure.

I just called the Sheriff and spoke to his secretary. I gave her a polite hell raising over this: The cop was urged by some military pals to go to the people's house and confront them over the fact that they were flyinga flag upside down as a form of political protest over the state of our nation, which they feel is in jeopardy.

It is FULLY protected free speech, and to trot out a law that is clearly Un Constitutional ( and used only three times in all of state history ) is illegal use of the law to deny rights. The notes that were attched to the flag were explaining why it was upside down, so anyone seeing the flag would understand their point. The cop took this fact and twisted it to mean that pinning an explanatory note to the flag was ' desecration' !!

The ' desecration ' law was found UNCONSTITUTIONAL long ago. The cop knew this, or should have. The cop admitted that he went there after his military pals egged him on to use his police powers to " confront them " about their beliefs. When the cop went nuts at the peopls house, they tried to go inside and shut the door; they were afrid of him and demanded a warrant before they would let him in.

That is when the cop smashed the glass door with his fist and chased the man down in his home and choked him and arrested him. the wife frantically called 9-11 to report a cop gone mad and the cop's pals arrived and GUESS WHAT? THE COP'S , AS THEY ALWAYS DO, SIMPLY TOOK THE CRAZED COPS WORD and hauled off the couple to jail for, get this " assaulting the cop " and " flag desecration ". un freaking real.

Words fail the mind when hearing about horrid abuses of police power like thgis; thwe people aree going to sue, of course, and hopefully the pig will be fired and charged criminally as well. this is not a cop, this is a deranged and vicious right wing pig that set out to tear that flag down and arrest the owners, simply because he disagrees with them politically!!

It is an outrage and an offense against the law and Constitution. I pray that the County gets to pay a few million dollars in compensatory and punitive damges, as well as the cop, who should be fired, arrested and charged with the many crimes he committed that day, sued for all his saving and home, cars and property, all he wons. If that monster were flipping burgers for the rest of his life, he might just have time enough to reflect on the actions of his that spat on our system and due process and the sickening effects of his brutal and illegal crimes against Americans FULLY within their legal rights.

If that filthy pig did not like the flag being flown upside down, or with a few small notes pinned to it, then he should have written a few letters to the editor and griped; but instead, he went armed to the terror of the people and violated the rights of people over and over.

He lied as well: he claimed that when the poor man ran inside to call the cops for help from this madman, had closed the door on the cop's hand and broken the glass. But, 6 (six ) independent witnesses told the police and the TV news that the COP smashed the glass with his fist, intentionally, to get in. Here is why: even the mad dog pig knew that he had NO right to enter the home or pursue the man over a flag violation; he should have gotten a warrant from a judge if he felt he had probable cause..he KNEW he had no legal cause so he had to get his hand cyt to be able to say that HE was the injured one..otherwise he would have to explain WHY he was attempting to enter the home at all.

The cops are NOT supposed to enter a home except under very few limited circumstances: a real emergency, such as life at stake; or in pursuit of a fleeing felon; or with a warrant. NONE os these fit the case so he, in a rash moment of rage, decided to smash the glass, cut his hand, and later claim that the homeowner had slammed the door into his hand!! THAT is what he is claiming, and what he uses to justify the intrusion and arrest of the man.

This a no brainer, an OBVIOUS case of blatant police misconduct and illegal and lawbreaking actions by the cop. He went there looking for trouble, got it, and now must face the price for his mad dog actions. thats all we need, crazed Iraq veterans coming home and becoming cops so they can act like WE are all Iraqu's as well. THAT is what is so scary about this: How many OTHER cops are just home from being paid killers and used to seeing torture and denying rights

if the Sheriff does not fire this man. I plan to launch a protest march in downtown Asheville, whic is only an hours drive from me, to show the powers that be that such crimes against the people will NOT be tolerated or excused or covered up. How DARE some crackpot cop assume that HE is to set policy in the homes and yards of the people? He needs to be very very severely punished:

I say 5 years in federal prison for the cop for violating the rights of the people, each. 2 5 = 10 years hard time.

then, attach ALL of the cop's belongings and properties for the civil rights federal lawsuit for damages. Take his car and home and savings and leave himn penniless when he gets out of jail.

By them the war in Iraq will be 20 years old and maybe the military will be se desperate for warm cannon fodder bodies that he might get a waiver and rejoin the Army..surely they can use a monster like him far better than we can here in a supposedly free nation that respects the rights of the people. For sure he does not be;long in our society; mad dogs must either be isolated from us decent folks, or be put down.

I am nice enough to spare him his life, but to remove him from siciety for a long time and let him reflect on the Constituioon and his crimes and how horrible they were. Obvioulsy he has no respect for the rule of law now, but maybe after a decade behind bars, his twisted mind could grasp a few fundamental realities, and with training, he might be allowed back into society again, someday.

Damn him and every other swaggering, obnoxious, Rights violating . disgusting PIG who dares to defecate on our precious Constitutional Rights any time they feel offended by diverse thoughts or actions. I will hound that Sheriff until that cop is fired or the Sheriff looks like a complete Nazi to the People. To do any less is to acceept this outrage, and that I will never do.

My apologies for hitting the POST button before I went back and corrected the spelling; I am not normally so careless but I CAN spell!!

I read the local papers and saw the TV coverage about this and the only supporters of this cop are the far right wing Bush worshippers who believe that the flag is a holy relic and that the cops should arrest anyone who does not salute as crisply as they would like; talk about nazi's!!

I will agitate and hasle the big shots until this is over..stay tuned.

I worked for this bloke once who's letter headed paper had two union flags (not union jacks - common misconception) either side of the company name.

Granted he didn't personally redisign his letter heads - but someone in his office did - what they had done was to replace them with more realistic 'fluttering flags' as opposed rectangle ones. But whoever did it simply found a pic with the flag to the right of the post and mirrored it to the other side.

I had to point out the one on the right was not a a union flag as it was intended - I'm picky like that - but if you know that the flag should be presented the correct way it stands out a mile, so I did him a favor.

The officer in question should be fired immediately, and charged with the appropriate offenses.

It won't happen, but it should.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I plan to launch a protest march in downtown Asheville, whic is only an hours drive from me

Howdy Neighbor!

craziness. his flag and his property and the gestapo like cops come up and brace him....
i am growing very tired of this kind fo treatment.

Originally posted by Boondock78
i am growing very tired of this kind fo treatment.

As we all should. Actually, I think a lot of us tired of these scenarios long ago. I can only hope that this situation isn't "let go".

Citizens like eyewitness are crucial to enabling change. The more of us that shut off our computers, and hit the streets the better. Inform the masses!

After reading a little more (on PrisonPlanet), that cop should be looking for a job now, there is no excuse for this kind of thing.

Totally crazy

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Thousands of crazed soldiers come home after slaughtering innocents and are immediately given police and contractor jobs...Makes a whole lot of sense if one is trying to terrorize innocent American civilians instead of Iraqi/Afghani.

Are you saying that most of the US troops in Iraq have killed innocent civilians?

There is no doubt a few soldiers have done the dirty deed and killed innocents, even a few cover-ups by higher...but to assume that most troops have is outrageous, imo.

A very small percentage a US troops have commited crimes in Iraq. Let's not give 'em all a bad name because the actions of a few dirtbags.

Back on topic: It's the couples's right to do whatever they want to the flag as long as it's within their rights gauranteed by the constitution. Atleast that's the last word I heard

[edit on 1/8/2007 by SportyMB]

I live in California, which is a blue state. Contrary to popular belief, the overwhelming majority of people here do not approve of flag desecration, but we do tolerate it as Constitutionally guaranteed free expression. My question for people in red state America is are people over there so whipped up into a patriotic fervor as to condone this cop's actions?

This sort of thing makes me really nervous about some of the men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. I wonder to what degree will the bad apples be predisposed to commit offenses that wouldn't normally because they have a pretty good chance of having their actions excused due to post-traumatic stress disorder? A lot of troops are reservists and enlisted men and women in law enforcement. It just makes me wonder...

Originally posted by Rotoplooker
This sort of thing makes me really nervous about some of the men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. I wonder to what degree will the bad apples be predisposed to commit offenses that wouldn't normally because they have a pretty good chance of having their actions excused due to post-traumatic stress disorder? A lot of troops are reservists and enlisted men and women in law enforcement. It just makes me wonder...

I think the problem with people coming home from Iraq is that they drank some pretty strong Kool-aid. Many of us have worked for companies that may have been performing poorly or otherwise doing something wrong. We were exposed to the company "Kool-aid" or propaganda that told us the company was doing well. A part of us may have been skeptical of the Kool-aid, but another part of us believed or wanted to believe in the propaganda as a coping mechanism.

Troops that are or were in Iraq are in a similar situation. The company they are working for (the US government) is failing in its morally questionable mission. They are exposed to propaganda telling them that they are not only succeeding, but that their mission and their government is morally justified. Even the most cynical and skeptical soldiers will at least partially cave into this propaganda in order to cope with the extreme stresses of battle, and this propaganda will have a strong effect on their mind. When these people get home, and are exposed to people and viewpoints that contradict the propaganda, it will have an uneasy effect on the former soldier. This could possibly lead violent reactions.

Every flag in this country should be flying at half-mast.

I dont think an upside down flag is innapropriate either. This country and this world is upsidedown.

I hope he loses his job-and learns to go after criminals, which is what he's supposed to be doing in the first place.

Every flag in this country should be flying at half-mast.

I dont think an upside down flag is innapropriate either. This country and this world is upsidedown.

I hope he loses his job-and learns to go after criminals, which is what he's supposed to be doing in the first place.

Originally posted by Britguy
I believe there was a Supreme Court ruling not so long ago that stated defacing the flag was NOT an offence.

Not an offense to who?

Anyway, I certainly do not condone the action of the police officer. Seems to me that he will be receiving some harassment charges down the line. However, I don't have any respect for anyone who disrespects my country's emblem either. So there really is no good side in this whole issue as far as I am concerned