where did the material for the big bang come from? (Alternative to"who created god")

Well if universes poop out baby universes from black holes as Michiu Kaku speculates (at least I think it was him), I suppose the matter and stuff would come from the parent universe. No telling where the grand daddy universe got all the building blocks from though.

Who knows how many layers are above this universe. It could be a part of something even bigger.

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by prototism
Can you absolutely disprove this notion?

No I can't. But it's like god, you can't prove or disprove the notion, so it doesn't anwser that much after all.

I totally agree. I could think about and argue with myself about this stuff forever.

Well if universes poop out baby universes from black holes as Michiu Kaku speculates (at least I think it was him), I suppose the matter and stuff would come from the parent universe. No telling where the grand daddy universe got all the building blocks from though.

But as far as we know matter and energy cannot be created. And a black hole would not suck in enough matter to spawn a new universe with the same amount of matter our own one has would it?

I totally agree. I could think about and argue with myself about this stuff forever.

The greatest philosophers and millions of people before us and even today are arguing about this stuff and they havn't reached any concensus, what chance have I got?

it's quite obvious that the material didn't come from anywhere, it just was. it existed prior to our universe, prior to TIME. law of conversvation of matter and energy, my point on that hasn't been refuted yet.

what if the universe hasn't existed forever and wont exist forever

What if the universe has existed forever, and will exist forever...but TIME is finite, and possesses bounds?

Once all life in the universe seizes to exist, there will be nobody to observe it.. so will it exist?

Will it matter?

And isn't it interesting that in our language the meaning "of consequence, or value, of importance" is tied to the word "matter" which also means "phsyical stuff?"

Perhaps this is misleading?

if all life disappeared the planets would still move along their orbits, and galaxies would still drift and merge.

That is a Newtonian view. It might not be accurate.

Time exists as long as there is motion, not life. If nothing moved, if every atom froze and every particle that exists stopped, then time would stop.

rate = distance / time

...but...doesn't this also imply that if there were no physical matter...nothing to 'move'...there could also be no time?

But it's like god, you can't prove or disprove the notion, so it doesn't answer that much after all.

It isn't always necessary to have answers. Sometimes, merely understanding the question is enough.

it's quite obvious that the material didn't come from anywhere, it just was. it existed prior to our universe, prior to TIME. law of conservation of matter and energy, my point on that hasn't been refuted yet.

I'll refute it right now.

Matter and energy are interchangeable. One may be converted to the other. No matter or energy is "destroyed" or "lost" because of this. Consequently, all matter in the entire universe could, hypothetically, at one time have manifested in the form of energy. With no physical matter, there would be nothing to move, and thus no motion, and thus no time.

The "big bang" is simply a fancy way of saying "energy, the possibility of change, manifested as physical matter. Thus spawning time."

If it has always been there then that takes us back to the 'before it was observed' scenario. It may have been there but time would not have been possible as there would be no movememnt of planets or stars because all that existed was a mass of energy surrounded by nothing.

This nothing is what is outside the universe.. it probably even looks the same as space. Without time it wouldn't have been there forever but rather only come into being when it transformed into the universe we know.

what am i trying to say...the universe is suspended in 'nothing' and there was energy there but the energy HAD to be created somewhere. The energy we see all around us daily came from this original creation of energy... energy can not be created or destroyed only changed... it must have transformed from something... what was it before... ah i dont know ive got a headache. going to bed now.

hmm, an interesting documentary on the big bang,

title: Beyond the Big Bang..... 9 parts

youtube.com...

it talks about what was before the big bang



[edit on 013030p://am3037 by andre18]

Thanks, I'll check it out after work tonight

This is an easy questions to answer. The reason know one can tell you what was going on before the big bang is because it is all non-sense. God created the world and there was no begining for God.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


It is my hypothesis that material of that drastic density and energy would cause a form of extreme sentience, as a near infinite amount of mater with a near infinite amount of energy with such finite and overlapping allocation, would provide more of an opportunity for sentience than any other situation likely since. Although this does still not explain the material or energy origin of this mass (Though I feel some explanations are inherent when studying cyclical temporal causuality as well as dimensional and dark matter probability, that aside) It does bare logic to the decision of the mass to creatively spread it's self in an organized fashion and create the universe of it's self. If so it also bears to reason that perhaps the universe (as evidenced by partial separation synchronization in vibration frequency) Is still in, instantaneous, communication with it's self. Also it may have chosen to assist is it's own creation in the first place (despite probability and mild paradox issues) Given that time is substantial (as proven by current neutrino particle studies) and may not adhere to a linear format but a curvature. Now this is all hypothesis (and the intellectual property of D.A.Thompson the writer of this message) but it bears some compelling thought none the less. If you wish to discuss this further please contact me @ [email protected] thank you.

The majority of these hypotheses are asuming A. That absense is more of a natural state than energy (be it in it's slow form of matter or not) and B that Said mass was not sentient.

Maybe I created everything.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


Perhaps Your Universe is Not as you believe it to be!

It may be a Holograph within projector type system.

There are certain things required for a big bang to take plce!

Humans love "big bang" don't they???

The bigger the better!

Everything starts with a bang if it interesting instead of creeping up on you....

No, Seriously though.....

For the so called "big bang" to take place, you need somewhere for it to take place, and secondly you need some motivation or driving system, to make this take place, or it just isn't happen, no matter how hard you want it to or believe it might just happen!

You can sit and wait, for a new "big bang" to happen in your lounge or even else where, but it can't and isn't going to happen, unless something makes it happen!

But if All is made from Concepts, involving some form of Intelligent awareness, then Space or Dimension is Not required, neither is what you call matter, or even energy for that matter required!

All that is required, is awareness and some form of processing system, say in the form of a conceptual "partitioning map", and some basic, fixed rules, governing that system.

The condition or simulation of matter, has indeed been formed, with all its dynamics, but this can be a conceptual experience, based on very very, strict and organised rules or Concepts, perhaps what we may call the Laws of Physics for example.

So it is possible, that what you call your Universe, may only be generated so precisely and convincingly, through a elaborate processing system based on concepts, that produce "Virtual Reality" at its best!

Being so beautifully done, we are totally convinced it is so called Reality.

But hey that does not lesson the experience, it may only provide a little understanding, so don't knock it!!!

Have you ever tried Looking into your Universe, rather than Looking out to it ????

Your perspective will change and find that the universe suddenly looks much smaller even smaller than your own Awareness to you.

It is only a state of Mind to do this!

Try it!

Here's a totally off the wall concept.....

What if our universe came into existence, when a living being out there somewhere, simply fell asleep and starting dreaming about us?? And the point of all creation, started when the dream began? Hey, anything is possible.

If thats the case, I'd hate to see what happens when that dream is interrupted by waking.

[edit on 12/13/2008 by MadDogtheHunter]

reply to post by fiftyfifty


Their theory is easy to understand...

NOTHING EXPLODED and now we have all this!

I didn't say it was reasonable or true, I just said it was easy to state.

Perhaps everything has come from something Not understood by humankind????

Does Anyone know what this is a drawing of????







[edit on 14-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

so where di GOD come from???

When things are Created by/on concepts there is Not a requirement to first have materials!

The existence of materials, can be produced by Concepts, in a Program of any processing system.

The behaviour of such materials is controlled by laws of physics which are stringent rules of behaviour the come from concepts in the first place.

All that is perceived, or experienced is the result of Concepts that are firmly fixed within a processing system.

DNA for an example is a "chemical program" within the program that produces and controls you and your experience of the Universe.

So to answer your question "Where does the material come from in the first place" is Not so difficult to answer if you see your whole experience as the product of a Processing System.

Mater was/is produced by a program in a Processing System...

Even Space and Time is the product of a program within a conceptual processing system.

So long as the rules as to say, are defined and permanent, and are shared within a state of Consciousness, then anything can be programmed into the processing system, within the boundaries set within such a program and processing system.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

well if there was really NOTHING but space in the beginning, there'd have to ba a tremendous vacuum. Maybe the vacuum proved too strong it ripped the nothingness of space?