Proof of chemtrails?

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by srsen
2) Whenever i see (what i think are) chemtrails, the planes are normally (bout 80 per cent of the time) at a fairly high alttitude - high enough that you can just make the plane out with the naked eye, but this is not the case when an about-to-land plane is circling, they are lower and i NEVER see these planes leaving contrails.

This is because its vastly colder at higher altitudes making the formation of ice that much easier.

My problem with Chemtrails, is that 90% of the sites I see pictures of them on show commercial aircraft dumping them. If that was the case then I would have been one of the guys loading that crap on the aircraft to begin with, so I know that all those sites are fake.

ok, always wind up high - got it, thanks.

But to the point above i think you may have misunderstood me. What i'm saying is that if the planes are circling, about to land, then they would be at a much lower alttitude than where the checkerboard chemtrails are normally being laid down, therefore that woudl kind of derail the idea that checkerboard effect is a result of planes approaching landing strip and then circling and coming round again. make sense?

also defcon, what do you think about my question, re: my parents living in the country, wiht no airports, planes only passing over at high alttitudes, but still seeing regular contrails and checkerboard patterns? i posted the question a page or two ago.

thanks mate


BTW: as i said before, i think the chemtrail phenomena is NOT being helped by so many amateur's talking about it (myself included at times). it results in MANY pictures being posted which may indeed be contrails. but this doesnt ENTIRELY discount the fact that they could be happening as the chemtrail-believers think

VOR’s are not part of the TCA (Terminal Control Area), they are in areas between TCA’s. When a plane is on approach into an airport they are under the control of the TCA approach controller. The VOR’s/jetways/victor airways are how they get from point A departure TCA to point B arrival TCA. Your parents most likely live near a VOR that is in the path between major airports.

To the ones here that deny chemtrails have you even gone to any sites that have been listed here for you or/and talked with the people collecting samples and having them tested......have you even read the results. There are many thousands of people not only here in the USA collecting samples but peoples from all over this planet are collecting samples and having them tested.

Did it ever occur to you that there could be two different things happening in our skies? I have a very hrd time understanding that you can't look up and tell the differnece. Little kids can see this and ask about it for goodness sake.

Looked to me a lot like 3 aircraft that were preparing for an air show season working out a few problems with their smoke generators, the smoke is made by spraying a special oil across a very hot element.

Look the kits are a bargain at on $129

Also the smokewinder
And the SCSG -5A

I wonder if all this time there is a secret world wide club of airshow flyboys pulling you leg

Edit: although on the other hand if you were planning to spray deliberate chemtrails it just goes to show how easy it would be to adapt off the shelf components. ~ any nutter with a spanner an aircraft and a license could do it.

[edit on 6/8/2007 by Now_Then]

Right i have in the past mentioned something here on ATS with regards to chem trails etc.

I must point out that since leaving the Armed Forces i have also gained a private pilots licence which has given me a better understanding of weather patterns at altitude etc. Also i have completed 436 freefall parachute jumps so consider myself quite an expert on weather at such altitudes.

Where am i going with all this????

No im not blowing my trumpet but it all ties in with something i was shown in my career in the Armed Forces. I think it was November 1996 i was put on a Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare course. I was shown a video which seemed to be quite recent it was of a RAF Tristar passenger plane however had been converted and no longer had its hundreds of seats. Instead it was kitted out with huge liquid tanks. The video was showing the tanks being filled with what i was told was a flu virus. For some reason the goverment where testing out a strain on the population. Anyway this aircraft basically flew just on the border of Scotland and England high up in the northwest. The video was showing that with the south eastily winds the cargo once sprayed would be carried down over the populace of England. I was shown this video as it was part of Biological warfare and wsa told this is a option we have when going to war ie fill the enemy with Flu or some other virus, Let morale drop then go in for the kill.

I asked why do it on our own people though to which i got the reply that "Its got to be tested somewhere and at least this way we can monitor the results and the eventual outcome"

After i had finished that course and when back to my unit for months i kept thinking "If they can show that to me then what else are they up to"

I tell you it sent shivers down my spine.

Just imagine the different crap they can put in the tanks.

Diseases that they only have the antidote for in case they screw up, drugs of any type. Spraying over the ocean and the poor creatures dying or getting all confused. Same with the animals that are killed off and or confused.

People having trouble breathing and Doctor's telling of the uprate of respiratory problems.

Think about the aluminum particles and hey you never know from what you read here at ATS these particles could be used in the perfection of the use for Hologram projections, who knows.

People are slowly waking and they have to dumb us down. They know with the technology out it now can be turned and used against them. People are doing just this and they are getting desperate in my eyes.

What people have to hopefully realize is if this stuff starts to come down that you read about don't hide and cower like they want you to go after them.

One thing is if you go after them know that they have prepared and are ready and waiting for you, no doubt about that.

Look forward to marshall law, being shackled in rail cars and put in camps and sadly to save being gased.

I really do think the people are screwed, I am a Grandma hope I can use that word.

Originally posted by thesaint
Right i have in the past mentioned something here on ATS with regards to chem trails etc.

I must point out that since leaving the Armed Forces i have also gained a private pilots licence which has given me a better understanding of weather patterns at altitude etc. Also i have completed 436 freefall parachute jumps so consider myself quite an expert on weather at such altitudes.

Where am i going with all this????

No im not blowing my trumpet but it all ties in with something i was shown in my career in the Armed Forces. I think it was November 1996 i was put on a Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare course. I was shown a video which seemed to be quite recent it was of a RAF Tristar passenger plane however had been converted and no longer had its hundreds of seats. Instead it was kitted out with huge liquid tanks. The video was showing the tanks being filled with what i was told was a flu virus. For some reason the goverment where testing out a strain on the population. Anyway this aircraft basically flew just on the border of Scotland and England high up in the northwest. The video was showing that with the south eastily winds the cargo once sprayed would be carried down over the populace of England. I was shown this video as it was part of Biological warfare and wsa told this is a option we have when going to war ie fill the enemy with Flu or some other virus, Let morale drop then go in for the kill.

I asked why do it on our own people though to which i got the reply that "Its got to be tested somewhere and at least this way we can monitor the results and the eventual outcome"

After i had finished that course and when back to my unit for months i kept thinking "If they can show that to me then what else are they up to"

I tell you it sent shivers down my spine.

Great post saint. very interesting info indeed. Many are going to respond that it is merely an anecdotal claim, but i tend to think it is quite likely that this technology was developed for chemical warfare like you say.

Perhaps only a very small percentage of what we see in the skies are chemtrails, but even a small percentage is too much in my books.


Defcon, unfortuneately i dont know if the area where my parents live is a VOR area or not. IS there anyway to find out? a website which would tell you or something? if is as simple as typing in an area code then i could tell you for sure very easily. If their area is NOT VOR then i think this could be an interesting fact...

Originally posted by srsen
Defcon, unfortuneately i dont know if the area where my parents live is a VOR area or not. IS there anyway to find out? a website which would tell you or something? if is as simple as typing in an area code then i could tell you for sure very easily. If their area is NOT VOR then i think this could be an interesting fact...

The only way that I know how to find out is by purchasing an aviation map of the area. Even still though there is most likely going to be VORs that cross the area anyway, they are all over the country. To find a VOR on a map you want to look for this symbol:



As to thesaints post, I have heard of certain organizations releasing cold and flu viruses into the population to track the way they spread so they can study how to stop an epidemic. However I highly doubt that they are doing this by aircraft because I don’t believe that the viruses can survive that kind of environment outside the body for that length of time. To my knowledge a virus such as the flu can only live for and extended period when its on certain types of surfaces, otherwise it dies within a few seconds of leaving the hosts body. There were rumors that back in the 50’s-70’s low level radiation was dumped into the public in certain areas to see what effect that had on the population, but I doubt that is going on today.

The funniest part of the whole Chemtrail debate is that the military actually does have a chemical additive that they can add to the fuel to stop Contrails. So maybe you should all be more concerned with the planes that are not leaving contrails as opposed to the ones that are.

up until a few weeks ago, we had daily chemshows over Los Angeles. It's interesting to me, but a lot of ppl out here don't even pay it much attention...

Originally posted by thesaint

No im not blowing my trumpet but it all ties in with something i was shown in my career in the Armed Forces. I think it was November 1996 i was put on a Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare course.

Can we get a Unit/Regiment and base of operations please?
Could you also let us know where you completed your basic training?

Originally posted by thesaint
Anyway this aircraft basically flew just on the border of Scotland and England high up in the northwest. The video was showing that with the south eastily winds the cargo once sprayed would be carried down over the populace of England.

You mean northwesterly winds Although as winds at altitude will often blow in a different direction to those at lower levels it may well be a case of waiting days or weeks to get the right conditions for optimum dispersal over the target area.

As I've often said, I do not dispute the possibility that spraying operation may take place for some reason or other, though I doubt it's common. I simply point out that the persistent contrails and cirrus clouds that are supposedly evidence of such spraying are in fact just normal persistent contrails and cirrus clouds

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of birds flying through these chemtrails and ending up dying by something that is publically called H5N1 bird flu?

Just a thought, have no idea if this would/could be the case...

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by thesaint

No im not blowing my trumpet but it all ties in with something i was shown in my career in the Armed Forces. I think it was November 1996 i was put on a Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare course.

Can we get a Unit/Regiment and base of operations please?
Could you also let us know where you completed your basic training?

Huh?????????? Most people on here know well of my Military past. Heck i even left here in 2005 for 6 months to go back to Iraq. I know i mentioned more than i should of in that post above let alone telling you all my details. Do you think im like some 15 year old kid or something





[edit on 7-8-2007 by thesaint]

Originally posted by thesaint
Huh?????????? Most people on here know well of my Military past. Heck i even left here in 2005 for 6 months to go back to Iraq. I know i mentioned more than i should of in that post above let alone telling you all my details. Do you think im like some 15 year old kid or something

Well I hate to say it but the burden on proof lies on the person making the claim. Right now - and I hate to say it - we're into Bob Lazar territory.

You claim it was training, so possibly it was a simulation?

Its just that it takes an awful lot to kit out a plane, and I can't see the RAF handing one of its tanker assets over for such an operation, but thats my opinion only, and everyones entitled to one

Haha you think this is some outlandish claim that i am making. What other means of biological and chemical warfare is there. Do you think it is all loaded in rockets and fired at the enemy. Bob Lazzar territory makes me laugh to be honest as i am just a ex Soldier who who whilst serving went on a NBC instructors course. Infact there were about 30 other students in the room watching that film a big proportion of them from my regiment.

Didnt say i saw the event with my own eyes did i. It could have been fake for all i know ie instructors having a laugh etc etc but the fact of the matter is we watched a film and were told by the instructors what is was about. It didnt mean that much to me then its only since i have left and over the years read stuff on ATS that i have put 2 and 2 together and thought Mmmm!!!

The place i took the course was at Alexander Barracks, That is in the Dhekelia Garrison in Cyprus. I completed the course at RAF Akrotiri at the other end of the island after a short excersise in Paramalli village. Any ex Squaddies on here who have been based in Cyprus should know Paramalli pretty well its near the Episcopi GA

Why wouldnt the RAF like one of their planes being used. Do you think that every plane in the RAF is used solely for logistics and passenger movements. Heck ive taken part in a Special Ops excersise using a RAF tristar that was raided by SF throwing thundies and smoke grenades
all over the cabin and i know the RAF didnt like that because the Pilot and Co Pilot were well P***ed with us when we had finished.

Fact is i watched a short film of a RAF Tristar loaded with liquid tanks. It showed take off, Flying, Spraying and landing and in between there were diagrams showing the flight path and wind directions etc etc and describing how the winds would carry the cargo downwind.

Im all for the truth but im not up for some RMP Monkeys banging on my front door because i opened my mouth a little too much on here.

Hello thesaint,

You know I wouldn't explain myself if I were you, all you did was make a statement about what you saw and if people have a problem with that then that's there problem.

It's getting to the point that just because there are hoaxsters that come here everyone has to prove themselves, sad day it is.

We know there are people that believe and people that don't believe in chemtrails. I think if you do not agree you have the right to disagree but if people believe I would think it is a good thing to discuss it.

I have been involved with a group and they have collected and had tested and I believe. I see it and to Deny Ignorance I will not.

As I said, if people disagree that's okay all I ask is.....have the people that disagree studied, observed and researched the subject of chemtrails?





[edit on 7-8-2007 by observe50]

Hey Observe long time no talk hows you.

I agree 100% i think there is something with chemtrails. The point of my first post was basically "I have seen evidence of such things and i dare not think about the stuff i wasnt told" What i didnt expect was to be asked all sorts of personal information about my former career like i had to explain myself. I was just saying what i saw, Nothing else!!!

And to be compared to Bob Lazzar was just plainly laughable.

I have followed the chemtrail thing for a few years and as mentioned above it was this incident and reading about chemtrails on ATS that got me thinking "Hey something really is going on here"

thesaint,

I do remember the days when I didn't pay attention even though I had heard of chemtrails. My awakening was one morning walking out my front door, the lines were so close together it literally scared me. I walked out and observed the skies and counted 19 planes spraying.

I have seen planes that have a cone type thing on the front tip of the lead planes and usually this plane is not spraying like in the photo.

I have seen them signal each other by flashing all there lights and tipping there wings.

These guys must get bored or think it's funny but I have seen them make words like HI in the sky by turning it on and off.

People have captured orbs/ufo's in and around these trails also and my thoughts are they observing and testing or are they involved?

When you watch TV you will see them, they are in cartoons and they even made stamps with them. This is there way of programming you to them as just being a natural thing.

At one time here in a chemtrail thread I did post a link that stated the spraying they were going to do in the summer of 2007 in California.

[edit on 7-8-2007 by observe50]

quick thought.

IF chemtrail checkboards were planes circling in the VOR or whatever (sorry, that stuff confuses me still a little) then we would see similar patterns on a daily basis and in the same places. Everyone in the area would know about it and it would be no mystery at all...

This doesnt happen.

Makes me think the VOR theory, while technically possible, doesnt explain the checkerboard chemtrails.


Observe,

you saw 19 planes spraying at once?!!! thats crazy - any pics of this, i would love to see something that intense!

The most i've seen in Australia is three planes spraying at once.

19? wow, that IS scarey......

Forgive me for being uninformed about this topic- I've done zero research on chemtrails and I have a question, maybe someone could help me with them here: What has chemical analysis of the substances emitted by these aircraft found?