World owes U.S. a debt, says Brown

Darkarrow you should really get your headout the clouds mate

Invasion is a military action consisting of troops entering a foreign land (a nation or territory, or part of that), often resulting in the invading power occupying the area, whether briefly or for a long period. Euphemistically, an invasion is sometimes referred to as an intervention.

Enter a Country with a Hostile Army, Violate a Country’s borders or Neutrality . The Act of Invading

the act of invading; the act of an army that invades for conquest or plunder

sources


there is a large diffrence from a country being given permission to enter ones land and assisting them and going in to get their people out of a hostile country as it doesnt consist of a large force by the country trying to take control of them.

Iraq is good example of an Invasion

Mod Edit: Fixed link.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

other country's have been paying for the united states for awhile namely we export inflation to other country's and they take there trade surplus's and keep investing in Us treasury bills and buying dollars because they have to inorder to pay for oil. it's a neat trick

Originally posted by bodrul
Darkarrow you should really get your headout the clouds mate

there is a large diffrence from a country being given permission to enter ones land and assisting them and going in to get their people out of a hostile country as it doesnt consist of a large force by the country trying to take control of them.

Iraq is good example of an Invasion

Granted Iraq is a good example of an invasion what I am looking for is the other 59+ claimed invasions by the US since 1945. By your own definition invited forces or evacuations forces arent included. Are peacekeepers included in you definition or troops used to deliver humanitarian relief supplies.

I didnt throw out the 60 plus invasions since WW 2 figure so the burden of proof is not on me.

I do not know why people are equating money spent on the occupation of Iraq with a so called debt that is owed to the USA for the war against terrorism . I did not see many Iraqi terrorists on the 9/11 planes, maybe a few mossad agents . So you want to rifle a nations resources and blame it on terrorism .. so then the world owes you a debt because you want an economic colony in the ME , where you get 75-80% profit under your US written oil law to ship that oil back to the states and not have to invest one single cent of that profit back in Iraq ..

You are securing a resource at source at a massive profit to your corporate companies. It's nothing to do with terrorism , why should the world pay you for profiteering .

Edit : that is if they pass the oil law . Funny how american media always portray it as the law that'll unite the country , the few remaining crumbs divided equally, never mentions USA wants to walk off with 78% of a nations wealth for 30 years . See, USA doesnt care how its divided in iraq, long as they get their 78% and secured oil source .

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Apart from anything else, It is all just an exercise to transfer money from US taxpayers pockets into corporate accounts, I don't see anything here to do with fighting terrorism , I dont see why US tax payers have to pay these illicit payments , let alone the rest of the world.

Brown is a buffoon, The only person I trust in the UK parliament is George Galloway , where is Tony Benn , he was the greatest politician never to have become the prime minister .

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
Brown is a buffoon, The only person I trust in the UK parliament is George Galloway

who is currently suspended from parliament due to corruption for accepting money from the Saddam regime.

and the MP with the worse attendance in the UK parliament.

Can't really trust him can you?

Brown made a very true statement and I think he should be admired for being brave enough to acknowledge the United States in the fashion he did, and give credit where credit is due.

There are many people who hate George Bush, and many who hate America because of George Bush... but he is still the only man on the planet who had the coconuts to actually confront terrorism where it is, instead of ignoring it and hoping not to be targeted, which has long been the approach of every other spineless leader on planet Earth.

Show me a regime anywhere else that would dare to be ballsy enough to invade straight into the heart of the middle east and remove a genocidal dictator from power. And the world hates us for that? Are you anti-American hate mongers out of your minds? You only hate this country because your own would never have had the strength or the guts to do what we did.

People think Bush has been poking a stick at the hornets nest and stirring up chaos everywhere? Fools! The hornets nest is the United States of America, it is this nest that was stirred up. Maybe other countries would simply order a pizza and arrange some nice flowers for the dead if they suffered a major terrorist attack within their borders.

If there is a terrorist anywhere on Earth who is having second thoughts about his beloved jihad, you can think George Bush for that. And I commend Britain for having humility and gratitude enough to acknowledge it.

The world owes us a debt? You damned right it does. Thanks to America, the world has been forced to acknowledge terrorism and look evil straight in the eyes. If not for the aftermath of 9-11 and the decisions of the American administration, the whole world would know that terrorists are the predators and will never be the prey.

Thanks to George Bush and the United States of America, terrorists know they have an actual enemy that will cut them down where they stand. No more do the terrorists think free countries are just cowardly yipping porch dogs that don't have the guts to come off the porch. No more is "freedom" associated with "weakness" in the minds of terrorists. They know they have a genuine enemy now.

If the foolish people of Britain do not possess the mental clarity to comprehend why Brown would say what he did, then all I can say is thank Goodness Britain's leaders are more sensible than it's citizens.

Originally posted by humbleh
There are many people who hate George Bush, and many who hate America because of George Bush...

That would be quite accurate.

Originally posted by humbleh
Thanks to George Bush and the United States of America, terrorists know they have an actual enemy...

And now they are quite possibly more motivated than ever to attack that enemy.

Originally posted by humbleh
If the foolish people of Britain do not possess the mental clarity to comprehend why Brown would say what he did, then all I can say is thank Goodness Britain's leaders are more sensible than it's citizens.

I'll leave that one for our fine British members.

Originally posted by humbleh
If the foolish people of Britain do not possess the mental clarity to comprehend why Brown would say what he did, then all I can say is thank Goodness Britain's leaders are more sensible than it's citizens.



1st off Gordon Brown is scottish,he is a scottish MP and should be in the scottish parliment.Him being our unlected Prime minister is a minor setback and hopefully that one eyed pension theif will be given the damm good kicking he deserves at the next election

Us brits are not foolish sunshine so perhaps you should choose wisely your words here,We like the majority in the world opose your cowardly drug taking pretzel fearing god talking president and his disgusting money grabbing friends in power who abuse their positions to fatten their blood soaked wallets

No countries owe our nations anything for these bloody wars in the middle east.The only thing we are owed back in return is vengence from those two countries after our war machine has raped their land and made money of the back of all that suffering

To think you applaud those cynical words echoed by Brown,is frankly revolting in itself.You think the world should pay your country of america for its illegal wars over there!

I have just checked your profile out your yet again another warmonger who hasnt got the guts to type the things they do online using their real name.If you havnt got the convictions to stand by your words here with your name you not man enough to listen too.


[edit on 5-8-2007 by noangels2006]

the only thing the world owes America is a Big Fat Nuclear Pineapple -Snip-. Considering that 80% of Americans are against the war, and 75% dissaproove with how the president incharge is neglecting the rest of the country in an attempt to play the worlds most expensive game of risk. The only reason Gordon brown even says this is because his masters hand is so far up -Snip- has to come out his mouth.


Mod Edit: Removed explicit, graphic descriptions.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Brown said what he did because we are allies. At home he is trying to 'cool' the special love in between Blair and Bush. But no change on the foreign scene. Why? You don't desert your allies. You do not seek to make them look bad. The world does owe the US a debt, WWII, Cold War, we have an idiot at the W helm, but that does not take away the achievements of the past. You never desert your allies......lol

Aw well. I wouldn't have expected such opinions from forum moderators.
What a disappointment from you, sir UM_Gazz. So.. is this place really meant for people who are against the Elite and their agenda, or might it be another place where the awakened kind is being distracted from important topics?

Mhmmm.. I really wonder.

So what you are basically saying is that the US, or at least the few ones in control, make a #load of money from war. And the rest of the world should pay them another #load of money, or at least say "Thank You"?

That doesn't make alot of sense to me. And the way you are talking about debts between the US, UK, the world.. Scotland.. or whatever makes me think that u haven't even got the slightest idea about what is economically going on.
The bottom line is: The citizens are in debt to the governments and banks, wherever it leads to.. be it the US.. or Britain. I don't care.

The bottom line is: "They own your rear. And in the Pyramid we go!" They got us by our balls, every single day.. and we are finally fed to the dump.

And you come up with stuff like the world owes the US some cash or gratitude for that expensive War on TERRA!? And where do you think all that money goes? Do u really believe everything is spent on Weapons and Military Research?
Reminds me of WW2. So it must be true; history repeats itself. Bushes already making cash of WW2, IBM organizing the work distribution in concentration camps through "hollerith" calculators.

And Europe should be thankful to the US for ever.. for saving us from the Third Reich!

It's 2007. History repeats itself. And UM_Gazz, like Brown.. thinks that the rest of the world should be grateful, for a problem which is not solved, but only caused and worsened by the US. In the same way as WW2 was only made possible through Foreign US contributions in first place.

At first I thought ur opinion was meant to be ironic. But apparently it's not.

Guess it's time to do your homework, guys. It's a sad day for ATS.
Or maybe instead of doing some homework u could also check out UFOS and ghost-appearance sections on ATS. Yeah!

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

And now they are quite possibly more motivated than ever to attack that enemy.

See. This to me is a defeatist mentality. Its what I call the "spain" mentality which i will adresse a little further on down. Its going to get worse before it gets better, thats something ppl need to understand. The US initiated the inevitable as to not delay it any further. We are in a War on terror. Look at terroristic attacks pre 911. what did the world do about it? now forward to after. Spain gets hit... What do they do? Concede defeat to the terrorist, cause god forbid if they dont, the likely hood of another terrorist attack on there soil becomes highly probable. Al qeada hit back and the Spaniards collapsed like a house of cards. this was a huge 'win' for al queada and al queadas followers and sympathizers. do you see a pattern here? An al qeada that goes uncontested is very dangerous. More so then a one that does not. Let them know that we will follow them to the gates of hell if need be. we will not leave one rock unturned in our search for them. they are a dieing breed. We the United States of America are the only ones strong enough and capable enough of doing this. The brits who have been there with us are not in a position to do anything about it (in an exclusive role). WE ARE! We are the prescription the doctor ordered. We are the ONLY prescription, period!

Its not going to be an easy road. And I realize there are alot of conspiracys surrounding this war on terror especially on this site. And im not saying the US government is 'right' all the time. But I do believe this is a just cause. One that later on, many years on down the road, will be one looked back on as a time where we took a stand against a people who wish to harm us and our way of life. I do believe the world owes the US a debt of gratitude.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by West Coast]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by West Coast]

When will people see that Al Qaeda is nothing more than a CIA backed splintergroup. In other words, if you refer to them as the enemy, make sure you label their financiers that way also.

It's all part of the problem/solution mechanism behind the NWO agenda to further enhance their powers, and so long as people keep believing the fictitious stories about Al Qaeda being the Muslim threat to the western world, we may as well do the verichip implantation into our bodies ourselves.

Who provides this group with finance and weapons? The US? They are nothing more than the tool used by their masters. Should we owe a debt to those masters?

Or to the people that consume so blatantly that they will take down the global economy with it? With a GDP of 12,3 trillion, 70% coming from consumption, and the remaining 30% from production, one can see that 40% of this 12,3 trillion (difference between what the US produces and consumes) is already being financed for a large part by oversees investment in US treasuries etc.

The high level of consumption and unnecessary spending on crap that does no good to this planet in any form is not helping the global economy, and the living off borrowed money where the US has problems even paying the interest may give one me the impression that perhaps the US is actually in debt to the world....

What seems to be missed in most discussions of Islamic fundamentalism / terrorism, are the root grievances and objectives of the leadership concerned. Although the historic origins of many of these organizations can be traced to the aftermath of World War II, their proclaimed justifications go back much further.

Essentially, they fall into two camps: 1) They seek to reclaim the territories once ruled by Islamic states, won before or after the medieval Crusades. I am quite certain, the United States did not have a role in these campaigns. 2) They seek to establish Islamic states, ruled under Koranic law. Therefore, all secular societies including all democratic societies, are evil and must be purged from the face of the Earth. I imagine most Americans and Europeans would object to this.

Just returning territory that was once ruled by the furthest extent of Islamic states, such as the Ottoman Empire, would incorporate much of southern Europe and southern Asia. Suppliers of armaments to these terrorists, China, France and Russia come to mind, have clearly forgotten their local history. Portions of these countries were once under Islamic rule.

Apologists for Islamic fundamentalists / terrorists, decry "Western Imperialism". But I ask you, how is it any different, when the Islamic warmongers seek to return to the glory days of Saladin? And of course, the leaders of these "Islamic entities" see themselves as Saladin. Not that they would admit this out loud. Regardless of their claimed justifications, this all amounts to Islamic imperialism.

In this regard, I think it is instructive to look at the several Arab-Israeli wars. Why is it, that Israel has managed to ultimately prevail in these conflicts? The combined military forces of the involved Arab countries arrayed against Israel, were greater than the total population of Israel. Qualitative differences in training, tactics and weaponry, can only take a combat formation so far. I believe the answer to be, that each time the invading forces have had Israel on the ropes, the Arab leaders begin quibbling over the Israeli carcass while the fighting remained ongoing. They defeated themselves.

Does the World owe the US a debt? That is for the historians to decide, with the 20/20 hindsight of the rearview mirror; twenty, fifty, one hundred years from now. And even then, there is not likely to be any sort of consensus. In its recent history, i.e. the 20th Century to present, I believe the US leadership has tried to "do the right thing." Their motivations or methods may not have appropriate at all times, but by their understanding of what was correct and honorable, they honestly did what they believed to be right. But like all nations, there are times when some of the people in the nation's leadership, have been true scum. I leave it to you, to decide which people deserve that appellation. In this, honorable people will differ.

From the American perspective, the US has pulled Europe's fanny from the fire in two World Wars, and the Cold War. Additionally, the US Marshall Plan after World War II was the driving force in the reconstruction of a Europe devastated by war. And until the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US bore the lion's share of the NATO budget, in addition to the extra-NATO US military budget. Ironically, the NATO force created for the defense of Europe, saw its first defensive mobilization in the aftermath of 9/11, over US airspace.

Now that European and Asian democracies have strong economies of their own, their is a belief that they should bear a fair share of the peacekeeping burden. Particularly in their respective spheres of influence, and other regions vital to the World's economies. Call it motivated self-interest, if you must. That does not mean that it is wrong. There is an ancient Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." By that standard, we are all cursed, on all sides. Then again, when has this never been so?

The issue is Energy (my view), I would have thought that someone would take this inevitable reason as fact.
Today we are near peak oil and no one really care. Once Tony Blair said that the real energy in the world today is Information and not oil.
When you hear this kind of disinformation you wander why is it that the real issue never seems to top the media.
Of course oil is the prime energy and the only cheap one available. And it is Bad news for the Arabs and Muslim, the biggest and cheaper part is in they land. If they didn’t have any oil, you can be sure that none of what we hear day in and day out would have come to be.
Now if people still believe that all the world affair, terrorist and economy are religiously oriented then I am not surprise that many more 911 will come to be in the future to hide the energy dominance. People are ignorant or I should say don’t want to know the real issue. Wake up all of you that still think that religion or political movement are behind every drama in this world. Religion is only a bare instrument to manipulate people so to hide the truth of the world history. We need energy and wee need more and more every passing day. We have now according to some researcher reach the peak oil production in the planet. It mean that we will go down from now on. So what USA is doing very legitimately in hi's won rational thinking, is to grab any left oil for them self. The reason for USA to go to Iraq is to pump Iraq dry and then leave it to her fate. This should take 5 years or maybe less.
Yes so little, because Saddam has lie to the OPEC about the reserve, like all OPEC member do any way. Now that USA is in Iraq very soon they will go to Iran next stop in oil dominance.
We are in the mess more then any one could have predicted according to some researcher. What USA has done since 2001 is to extend this inevitable future that human race is facing. Gordon Brown is just telling the rest of the world that have no oil, say thank you to Uncle Same for the cheap oil that you enjoy.
This is my view of what's really happening in the world to day.

bring back Maggie i say! she'd slap bush about a bit, as for the gripe about war and terrorisum welcome to the human race! face it, its in are nature to destroy eachother, Mr Smith got it correct when he said we are like locasts, alone we are harmless but when united all we wanna do is destroy

oh and Brown is a Scot, and no Scot would admit to owing anyone money

I wouldnt get too worked up over it all, all it meens is basically that the UK wants to stay buddies with you folks in the US, as it has been extrememly close for many many decades now. Its an important relationship in terms of economics, intelligence, self defense and aggression.
The UK isnt a whole lot popular in Western Europe as far as i can see, nor is the US - it allows both nations with similar cultures and objectives (what ever they may be) to progress together and work as a team, which then encourages other more powerful and wealthy nations(Ger,Jap, Can, Aus...) and their allies to unite and allow for the spread of globalisation more succesfully.