Mexican activist attempts to burn American Flag-key word "attempts"

I thought that was a good video. People don't need to burn flags, it is totally disrespectful. People don't need to call others ni**ers and fags either. I think if someone does, the other person is within their right to be extremely angry and yell and be upset.

But according to some of the trolls on here...that is stamping on people's rights.

Originally posted by yuefo

Originally posted by Sky Eyes
Focus on above: breach of allegiance.

Yes, why not. Are you a mind reader? Is someone burning a flag advocating the destruction of the country? Revolution? Terrorism? Or are they simply complaining? Wow. Treason, now that's strong. Thank goodness the Supreme Court--you know, the folks who interpret the constitution--disagree with you.

To me, someone burning or otherwise desecrating a symbol of such importance means more than, how did you put it? Oh yes, "complaining" . Why shouldn't they stand up for their actions? If they feel so strongly about it, take off the mask, write their congressman, like Americans are supposed to do!

Yes, it is strong, why do you think the perp wore a mask in the first place? And believe me, I know all about the Supreme Court, their hands are tied like the rest of us.

People have died to defend these people's right to burn that flag. If a person wants to show disapproval for his government go VOTE. Don't burn the flag that represents everything good about the country. I'm sorry, but when I see someone burning a flag I believe it is a slam to everyone of us who give these people a chance at a better life. They are spitting in our face and we are suppose to just take it. I think those days are about over.

It's not just patriotism, it's pride and respect. Why not burn the damn flag of the piece of crap country that they had to leave to get a better life. We who don't want the flag burned have done just as much for these people as you bleeding hearts have, so stop trying to make us feel like we are jerks for defending our flag.

Originally posted by Sky Eyes
If they feel so strongly about it, take off the mask, write their congressman, like Americans are supposed to do!

Oh I agree Sky. The whole bandanna thing was ridiculous. I laughed when he'd been carrying on and on with his face fully exposed and then decided he needed to cover it up again. Oops! a little late for that.

But as for the Supreme Court, their hands aren't tied. What are you suggesting, a Constitutional amendment? That's not going to happen because freedom of speech is the underpinning of all our freedoms. That's why it always dies in Congress. That's why they leave it alone. You ban one thing, then another, then where do you stop? That's the slippery slope to totalitarianism. Ronald Reagan ran on the issue of flag burning (among others). But after the election? Nada.

Flag burning would never be my choice of protest either, but you have to admit, it really does get people's attention.

Originally posted by andy1033
The mexican had a right to burn the flag,

He had just as much right to burn that flag just like that man had the right to oppose it... That is what we call freedom of speech, expression, etc.. The patriot was well within his constitutional rights, so was the anarchist (who may or may not be a legal citizen)...

Originally posted by yuefo
Flag burning would never be my choice of protest either, but you have to admit, it really does get people's attention.

Good thing, I was about to get the wrong idea about you

About the Supreme Court, there was a time when it disturbed me that they were selected and not elected, now I'm not so sure that things would be any better otherwise.

But, back to the flag burning. Throughout history the flag has gone before us (or any country/nation/faction) into battle, after which it has stood as a symbolic marker, proclaiming that the land upon which it was standing belonged to the victor. In this case that would be us, America. The flag stands for all of these things that we hold dear, these rights that we are disputing, the freedoms that we fight for and have died for, the ability to live each day unmolested either physically or spiritually by a governing body that so many live in fear of.

Of course, many can, and probably will, condemn me for that last statement, asking where are these rights are that I speak of. But at least we don't get beheaded in the streets for some infraction.

A poster above spoke of why these malcontents did not burn the flag of the country that oppressed them previously. A very good question in my eyes. My only answer to that would be the surety of death. So why do it now? Is life here so bad? Then go somewhere else and create the destiny they think they deserve. And what is that? More freedom? More social programs with low (or no) taxes? Perhaps free sex, drugs and cerveza flowing in the streets? What more could an American want (within reason)than what we already have?

I don't care what someone does to a piece of colored fabric, and neither should you.

Is the general public really this brainwashed? Soldiers don't die for a flag and flags don't respresent the moral fibre of a country. A flag is nothing more than a damned logo for a country. At best a flag represents a multi-generation marketing campaign. Like all marketing campaign the ultimate loser is the consumer and the more successful a campaign the greater the loses.

Do you feel some alligence to the Apple Computer logo?

"Of course not Vox. Oh, but weave some horrible abstract design into a piece of fabric flapping in the wind and I'm right there waiting to die happily!"

Does the average person even know what noble use a flag was invented for? Judging by some of the replies here, one would think they were used to somehow magically encode all the feel-goodness of a society.

No, flags were created for the noble goal of making the unending task of killing our fellow man more efficient. Flags were first used as markers for armies in battle to maintain cohesion.

So what is a flag?
A flag is a symbol of imperialism, that is why you plant a flag to claim a piece of land.
A flag is a symbol of conquest and genocide; old glory has seen a lot of indigenous tribes exterminated and democracies overthrown.
A flag is a symbol of the state's power over people which is completely at odds with the concept of social power the US was founded on.
A flag is a warning; the people in the proximity of one generally care more for symbols of power then they do for other human beings.

A flag represents nothing good and the people who fight for a flag represent, in the truest sense, the evil so many of our founding fathers warned us about. They are the ones who throw themselves behind a symbol and follow it without consideration as to the morality of the actions it commands. They are the ones who sell-out our country, implicitly, by their very unwillingness to question the validity of statist symbols within a society that claims as one of its founding principles that all power is vested in the electorate.

Jon

I feel kinda...let down.

I was expecting a gunshot, or at least a fight. Dang...I mean LiveLeak I was expecting gore.

Ah well rights to free speech yadda yadda yadda he looks and is dressed like a freaking terrorist, I assume hes illegal.

Ya this kinda makes me sick.

The guy obviously isn't doing anything illegal, there is a bike cop right there and he's not arresting him.

It is not right or legal to steal stuff from someone and intimidate them because you don't agree with them.

That guy who took the flag was acting like a total jerk.

Picture this, same video but instead of an American flag being burned it's some war supporter waving a pro-war sign. If that doesn't work for you pick any issue and imagine the same scene. Is the situation still "cool" for you ?

It's all about freedom of speech. It's a right everyone here gets even if their opinion is unpopular. If this concept is revolting to you then perhaps you should do as the anti-war types were told to do and leave this country. Please immediately flee to some place where only your flavor of opinion is expressed.

Some people have got all caught up in that "real American" line of thinking : "Oh he don't like the war, he aint a real American, he looked kinda Hispanic he aint a REAL American."

Seriously spare us anymore of this; all of us here legally are real Americans and furthermore even people here illegally are still human. I shouldn't have to say that last part but those are the kind of times we're in.

Good ol'e America

Some of you may recall that FREEDOM OF SPEECH is one of those crazy things people fought and died for. It's part of America, if you don't like it LEAVE.

You have the right to disagree with someone but you don't have the right to steal their stuff and act like a mad man.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by discomfit]

I should say that I am against freedom of speech, for certain things, this being one of them.

So I believe what he did was right.

I know it's hard to believe, but to some of us the flag is still a symbol of what America "means", and not necessarily what America "is".

Sure, you have a right to free speech and you SHOULD have that right. However, I (as well as the guy in the video who snatched the flag) also have a right to protect my country and it's symbols. If anyone tried to burn a flag in front of me, they would carry a severe beating if necessary to protect that flag. Why? Because my father fought his heart out to protect what that flag is supposed to mean. And ultimately he died because of the fighting he did to protect what that flag is supposed to mean.

You say that flag belongs to the mexican guy trying to burn it. I say that flag belongs to those who have fought to (try to) preserve what it stands for.

so how would all of you feel, if a veteran burned a flag in protest of what they felt was signs of our government and military becoming tyrannical?

Now, is that veteran, who faught with his own blood and tears now any less patriotic because he/she used his freedom that he fought for themselves to protest in a way that is protected under the constitution?

There has been no proof that either the potential burner wasn't american ... and there is no direct proof the one stopping was an american. Color means nothing ... the one that stopped it, could have came from Europe, Africa, South America, Australia ... you have no proof they did not. As well, the one using their freedom of speech/protest ... you have no proof that their family hasn't been here for a couple hundred years. There is no proof either way, and to make assumptions to fit your needs is borderline deception.

If my father, who fought in Vietnam wishes to burn a flag, I hope someone who hadn't been to war doesn't try to stop him because they have more allegience to a flag than the human who served in the military defending independence in the world. If my grandfather, and fathers before him, who have fought in world wars, even in the civil war ... wished to use their constitutional rights, I hope some lazy person who has never served the country doesn't suddenly think of jumping out of their Hummer (whose huge gas usage supports terrorism) and their wives with diamonds (whose purchase supports genocide in Africa) doesn't feel they have more of a right to take away someone else's given rights under the same constitution.

Look at the big picture. If this country can be torn asunder by burning a piece of fabric, then we are not much of a country.

Instead, I would like to think we are better than that. I would like to think we are intellectually mature enough that - we believe all of humanity is EQUAL and each deserve the rights to express themselves and do as they choose as long as they are not physically harming another individual.

Well, I guess that is way too idealistic for the average american and human in general. We separate and divide people into groups that are different instead of celebrating our similarities. We are all blood and flesh ... get over it and finally allow each person to be equal regardless of what the feel, choose, want. I wonder how you would feel if it was your freedom and rights being trampled on ... it is easy to allow illegal activities if they fit into what you feel and believe (and denying the rights of others is illegal) ... but when it becomes personal for you ... then you may start to question how free you actually are.

I feel, in this country, we should have the right to support the war or be against it. We should have the right to protest or support any cause ... as long as you still respect the rights and relative safety of your fellow citizens. Otherwise, this country isn't as great as they taught me in school, but just a big lie, deception ... a false liberty ... freedom only if you are the way they want you to be. To me, that isn't freedom. That isn't the pursuit of happiness. When we trample on one person's rights ... all of us suffer in the long term. If you really love this country, study the constitution, the bill of rights ... read the quotes of the forefathers who founding, fought, and shed blood to make this country ... and then defend equality for all human-kind, not just for things you personally agree with. Being able to stand up and defend someone who does something you don't agree with takes true courage ... and defines the spirit of this country. It is easy to support those who do what you like, want. Defending someone's rights is above all the right thing to do. If not, then submit yourself to tyranny ... As Thomas Jefferson said 'Occasionally the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyranny and patriots'

We are in trying times, but humanity always pulls through.

I have actually written a letter to my congressman several times suggesting legislation to make it illegal to burn an American Flag. I do not feel like something like this should be protected by freedom of speech. I applaud the guy that took the flag from the guy.

I forgot who it was that said the comment about the general public being brainwashed because we have some pride in our country and our flag. And then proceeded to compare that to apple logo, but that was a rediculous statement.

As a proud American flag burning offends me. I have never and will never allow it to go on around me. By any means necesary I will stop it. As Americans we should have more guts sometimes and stand up for whats right, even though on paper its legal. That doesnt make it right.

Oh and for those that do not think men have died for that flag. Get real, they died for that flag and what it represents. We need to stop letting people walk on this country and what it stands for. Theres plenty of ways to make a statement without dessecrating my flag.

The person burning the flag has the right to do this. The supreme court has ruled this falls under the freedom of speech category. I do not think the supreme court has ruled anyone has the right to stop someone from excercising their rights just because they disagree with the message or the mode of expression. The KKK is allowed to rally publicly, and are constitutionally protected in doing so. People will read into what they want to believe in this video, its human nature. Some see a foreigner spitting in the face of a great country. Others see a citizen expressing his views. The guy who took the flag portrayed himself in a threatening matter and was yelling obscenities to the flag burner. To some, his speech is more offensive then the guy who wanted to burn the flag. Freedom of speech gives us the right to say things other people may not agree with. They have the right to not listen and leave.

ok. my excuse is he is an adult and should be allowed to do what he wants without some 'moron' trying to stop him.
i'd rather be around the guy that is not afraid to burn it than be around the 'patriot' that will prevent this cloth from being burned...

thats just silly

Originally posted by niteboy82

Originally posted by earth2
I just think its great for someone (probably a veteran) to stand up for the flag they fought for.

First of all, there is no reason to infer that this person was a veteran by that video.

Secondly, the person with the flag should have pressed charges against the other man for theft. He pulled the flag owned by the man wishing to burn it, out of his hands, and would not give it back.

So your hero stole something, and could be considered a criminal by the laws that are actually real.

well that mexican guy is probably illegal here like the other 20,000,000
illegals here in the uninted states so he would not he would not be stupid enough to try to prosicute the other guy or he would get sent out to mexico
(and right now i am using my right of free speach held up by that very flag) and all the vetrans like my dad,grandpa,and my grandpa from my moms side and general Mclellen from the civil war is also in my family i might be only 14 but i take history class and i know we dont have wars for no reason it is to keep that flag standing STRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Sky Eyes

To me, someone burning or otherwise desecrating a symbol of such importance means more than, how did you put it? Oh yes, "complaining" . Yes, it is strong, why do you think the perp wore a mask in the first place?

the symbol is only as important as you deem it.
maybe he covered his face cause he knew the 'patriots' would come out of the woodwork and he might face physical abuse....seems reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
People have died to defend these people's right to burn that flag.

so it is/was important enough to fight for the right to burn the flag, but people get twisted up when someone excercises that right?
thats pretty funny.

is this like the freedom of speech as long as you don't say anything deal?

you CAN burn the flag as long as you DON'T or something

Give me a break, all this talk about violations against the guy's right to freedom of speech. It wasn't action by the authorities that stopped him, it was simply a dispute between two men on the street. If the flag burner feels he was served such a great injustice, he can go file a police report for his stolen $2 flag. Personally I would have done the same as the guy that took the flag, I say good for him.

[edit on 7/29/2007 by somedude]

^^^well, the law says you are wrong....if it was his property, he can do what he wants with it....he can't burn your flag but he can burn his.


i get more uptight at all these amarcun type patriots that get all freaked out over stuff like this.

in one post/paragraph they talk about fighting for this country and their family and the symbols of what it means(you know, freedom. free speech. right to pursue happiness, etc etc.....), then, in the next post/paragraph we get em talking about laying a beat down or stealing their flag to 'protect it'...

it's friggin warped...


edit* burn cotton=not ok
beat down a person=ok....lol

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Boondock78]