lets quit screwing around and prove or disprove the bible: here is how

let me first say that i am a hardcore atheist and don't believe in the bible or the word at all. not one single iota. that said, i have a thirst for knowledge. i would very much like to KNOW the score here know what i mean.

so it is 'rumored' that noah's ark rests on mt ararat...now, i have been fascinated with this and i just started really reading about it. basically, IF the ark is ever found that would basically prove that all that bible rambling really happened. it would be an insanely important artifact. it would end a several thousand year old argument.

get the funds together from various churches, donations, grants, whatever and get on up the mountain.
i don't know how but it can be done. we have been to space. we have built oil rigs in the ocean....we can damn sure scale this mountain and see if there is a 400 foot boat or remnants of up there.
BUT, the turkish or armenian gov/people 'believe' it is there so they will not allow anyone up there.
what gives with that?

my opinion???????????
they're afraid of not finding anything. why else would they/we/humans not go check that out? we are explorers. we look for things. we look for answers and perhaps the biggest answer is 'maybe'(according to satelite pics) right up on that mountain..

i'm just thinking that it just seems 'off' to me that the general consensus is that this boat is there, but we can't go there....

i say get up there and find out so we can get past this.

of course if the boat is not there that does not mean all the bible babble never happened cause it could have...BUT, if it is there, then DAMN.....proof. there it is. there IS a god. there WAS a flood.
why do 'they' not want to prive this?

actually, i have been thinking on this a little bit more....i think the reason 'they' won't let anyone up there to dig for the proof of this huge boat is deep down inside of them, they friggin know it's not gonna be there......
would be a scary thing for a lifelong follower eh?

anyway, thats my take

Why must you atheists always see things in black and white?

The only possibilities you see are:

1. The Bible is 100% literally true
2. The Bible is 100% literally false

What a narrow-minded way of looking at things.

Even if "The Ark" were to be found, there still remains many a piece to said puzzle ... the Bible. (?) A story of stories.

 

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[edit on 19-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

Even if "The Ark" were to be found, there still remains many a piece to said puzzle ... the Bible. (?) A story of stories.



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[edit on 19-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

What exactly are you getting at?

I am an agnostic, and even though you claim to be a hardcore Atheist, you, like me, still want to believe it, if it is true.
I find you are willing to be open minded, if only something could just open your eyes to see the truth.
Although, finding the ark still does not prove that there is a god.

Is there a god? I don't know, logically speaking there is no god, but finding an ark could at least make Noahs ark less a myth and more of a fact, that's what we need, more facts.

I'd love to believe in a god, but I doubt, therefore I am agnostic.

PS, it makes me mad that god is so involved in politics to get votes, the tooth fairy is really miffed about that

I believe someone already went to Mt. Ararat, claimed he found the ark, and it was a fraud he'd made up himself.

I looked it up just now, the guy is Ron Wyatt. He claims to have found all the following (and more):

* Noah's Ark (the Durupinar site, for which he has been the prime promoter)
* Stone sea anchors believed to be used by Noah to steer the vessel into the wind
* Petrified timbers from the Ark that were used as memorials in an Armenian graveyard
* Noah's sacrifice area at the site
* A large stone carving near the Ark picturing 8 people coming out of the side, with a rainbow above the boat, and inscriptions in Summerian, Hurrian, and Urartian identifying this formation as the Ark of Noah
* Trainloads of petrified pre-flood wood that had no tree rings on the site
* Corroded metal fittings, found in rows, delineating the "ribs of the ship," as indicated by metal detectors and especially a "molecular frequency generator"
* A house that Noah built
* Stones on this house containing inscriptions that recorded details about the Deluge
* A pictograph of eight people leaving a large wave of water with a boat perched above it
* Noah's grave
* Mrs. Noah's grave (containing a fortune-her gold and jewelry)
* The Ark of the Covenant (under the exact spot where Jesus was crucified)
* The Menorah (a seven-branched candelabra), the Table of Shewbread, and the Golden Altar of Incense from the ancient Temple
* Christ's blood, scraped off of the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant
* DNA analysis of the blood indicates that Christ was born of a virgin
* The true site of Christ's crucifixion and the stone socket in which the cross was placed
* Verified the tomb of Christ was the actual tomb
* Claimed Jesus' tomb was sealed with a Roman iron spike, still visible
* Moses' stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, held together with golden hinges
* Solved the problem of the construction of the pyramids
* Also the problems in Egyptian chronology
* Discovered the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah
* Discovered sulfur balls from the same
* The true site of the Israelites' Red Sea crossing
* A stone monument near the site erected by Solomon, inscribed with the ancient Hebrew script
* Horse and human skeletons from Pharaoh's drowned army
* Gold covered chariot wheels and chariot parts
* The true Mount Sinai
* The 12 altars built by Moses in Exodus 24
* The actual rock Moses struck to release water at Kadesh
* The site of Korah's earthquake where the ground swallowed up Korah and his followers
* Knows how the Shroud of Turin was forged
* Has cracked the code of the Copper Scroll
* Claimed (on tape) that he can read any ancient inscription
* Discovered the pillars of Solomon
* The tomb of the Patriarchs, the cave of Machpelah
* Moses was known in Egyptian history as Thutmosa III
* Joseph was the builder of the first pyramid
* Storage bins Joseph used during the drought in Egypt
* Bones of giant pre-flood people
* Ancient Canaanite burial pots at Ashkelon

www.tccsa.tc...

There's more about this here, and here.

Personally? I don't think they'd ever find it. It's an allegory. How in the world could ALL species of existing animals fit on a boat, even in simple pairs? Impossible.

Well, Mr. Malfunction, there is the possibility that it was merely the animals known to bronze age humans in Mesopotamia, which I wager would not be many.

There is also the chance that the Ark has not survived the ravages of time.

The reason they will not let them look is that it would hold the Jewish scriptures as truthful, something a muslim country wants no part of.

I am not sure it is there, but there are many more that show that book you speak of was not giberish.

Is the New Testament Accurate and Reliable? Archaeology?

Biblical Pool of Siloam Is Uncovered in Jerusalem!

Carbon dating backs Bible on Edom

Top Ten Scientific Facts : Evolution is False and Impossible

Scholar: Archaeology rebuffs effort to erase biblical Israel

Mathematics bombshell:God 'confirmed in Bible'

Originally posted by Boondock78
so it is 'rumored' that noah's ark rests on mt ararat...

get the funds together from various churches, donations, grants, whatever and get on up the mountain.

From what I understand the government of Turkey will not let anyone on the mountain to look for it. Gee, I wonder why a Muslim country won't let christians look for something that would prove the Bible?

Also from what I understand it takes a very warm year for enough snow and ice to disappear so it can be already/or looked for as it is buried somewhat.

Maybe global warming will help out enough that people can see it without having to set foot on the mountain, as in satellite pictures or from the air.


www.noahsarksearch.com...

satellite image of the Ararat anomaly here image was released march 2003, theres probably better ones out there now. Looks like a large rock formation to me, it's like seeing pictures in the clouds, you can see what you want to see if you look hard enough.

DigitalGlobe's QuickBird commercial remote sensing satellite imaged the Mt. Ararat "anomaly" in 2003. This image has never seen by the public until now. The anomaly is surrounded below by very rugged-looking strato-volcanic rock; however, the texture of the feature in question is relatively smooth and appears to be made of a different substance. Credit: DigitalGlobe

Link to my thread with other declassified spy satellite images if your interested.

I don't think the Muslims would mind if the Ark were found, in the Koran they consider him a great man of God...

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Why must you atheists always see things in black and white?

The only possibilities you see are:

1. The Bible is 100% literally true
2. The Bible is 100% literally false

What a narrow-minded way of looking at things.

i don't know about other atheists but in my first post i said if it is there it will prove it is true(i didn't literally mean every word) and i said if it is not there, it could still be somewhere else.

in the end, it seems this is the biggest 'missing link' of the bible, and according to many a believer, there it sits, right there in turkey.
why possible reason could there be for not going?

fear baby..........

also, i see things in grey all the time.....

Originally posted by Boondock78in the end, it seems this is the biggest 'missing link' of the bible, and according to many a believer, there it sits, right there in turkey.why possible reason could there be for not going?

Nope the other ARK would mean FAR more!

Originally posted by uberarcanist

What exactly are you getting at?

A story of stories.


... need I say more?




 

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

Originally posted by uberarcanist

What exactly are you getting at?

A story of stories.


... need I say more?

Stories can be true or they can be false, which one do you suggest?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I don't think the Muslims would mind if the Ark were found, in the Koran they consider him a great man of God...

en.wikipedia.org...

yup.

first, i didn't literally mean it was all true. i just put it simply...sorry for that. what i meant was if a boat was found to be there and as described in the bible, that is a MAJOR chunk of evidence....that would lead some heavy weight in more of it being true, imo.
also imo, that is why they don't want to look cause deep down they know it is not true....this would be but another disapointment and they can't have that.

to the dude that said i want to believe...
yeah, i do.....i just don't.
i tell my wife that all the time. she is a minor believer. she believes in heaven and all that...i tell her all the time that there is nothing i wish for more than for this to be true. who wouldn't.
an eternity in paradise of whatever variation you believe. my variation is rotting in the ground so anything is better eh?
fact is though, it's blabber or so the evidence shows. but boy, finding a monster boat made out of wood, bigger than any other wooden boat ever built found on the mountain....thats some SERIOUS evidence.


i don't believe it to be true. not any of the hardcore stuff. sure, jesus might have made a table but he didn't rise up and turn water into wine and all that....that is what i believe.
more than that though, i just want to know....i hate not knowing things. i want to know how EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Boondock78in the end, it seems this is the biggest 'missing link' of the bible, and according to many a believer, there it sits, right there in turkey.why possible reason could there be for not going?

Nope the other ARK would mean FAR more!

ok..i will bow to that.
however, do they 'know' where the other one is? do they have 'ppics' of it?

i don't mean to back peddle


i should have said something like "this would be the largest piece of evidence pointing towards the bibles truth to date" or something...

Well, Boonie, belief is far easier for me once the alien factor is entered into the equation...ancient races must seem quite godlike to most.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Well, Mr. Malfunction, there is the possibility that it was merely the animals known to bronze age humans in Mesopotamia, which I wager would not be many.

First, it's Major, not mister. And I'm not a man at all. So I'd appreciate the proper form of address. Thanks.

Secondly, wouldn't god have known how many animals there were? If he told Noah to build the ark, and save the animals two of EVERY kind, wouldn't Noah have known ALL the species?

According to Christian apologists, the entire world was covered with water, which would mean that god wanted ALL species of animals on the ark.

So either the Bible lies by saying that the entire world was covered with water and god wanted all the species of animals in the world saved,

Or ...

The Bible lies by saying that the whole world was covered in water but it was really only a localized flood in the area.

And if you are right, for the sake of argument, then where did all the rest of the species of animal in the world come from after the flood receded, if they were all (except for the Near Eastern ones) drowned, and Christian mainstream philosophy doesn't allow for evolution?