Who am I really? A Search for Self

Ok and here is where you can purchase the CD to add to your collection.

www.amazon.com...

Also this is what Osho had to say about it.

www.osho.com...

I hope this helps... Namaste Biggie smalls

Can anyone describe their understanding/feelings/thoughts on being/presence? There are many ways I feel this "I". I have used different ways of trying to feel/know who I am. I now understand this feeling when I think a thought, and focus on the feeling of "I". (I have been reading Ramana)

I think of it as kind of like the feeling one might feel if they were in a crowd, and someone called their name. The thought/feeling of "me?"

I am talking about that kind of feeling. Knowing who you are. The words can only point to it though, so if you attempt to know/experience what I am speaking about, it works to imagine that situation, and try to pretend it is real. Then one might know the feeling of "me" that I am talking about.

I have many methods of entering the now. As I understand it, with future and past existing only as past images filtered by time/growth/experience, time as such does not exist, and we exist only in the now. Or rather, only I exist in the now. Sure, clock time exists, but the "time" that usually runs our lives as a mental concept is different.

The universe I experience is unique to me, because I realize that it is filtered uniquely by mind. However, because this is the only universe known to mind, it is difficult for mind to imagine other universes (other people), vastly different due to different experiences. So the only universe I/mind has ever known/know now/and will ever know is MY universe. I can never know understand other people's universes completely. If I realize that all other universe ideas/thoughts are simply that, thoughts, then I conclude that practically speaking the only universe is the one I experience right now, namely the now.

The now cannot be experienced while thinking, because awareness cannot focus on thoughts/ideas/mind and be in the now at the same time. Therefore, to experience my universe, it has to be focused on/perceived, and not thought about.

Who am I? I sometimes try with this example. If we had a machine that could hook up to someone's brain, and somehow delete certain knowledge/thoughts/ideas from one's self, what would happen? We could ask, who are you? And the person could totally believe in himself as an "I" a unique individual. She/he might say "well, my body, and all the things I have learned/known/thought/experienced in the past up until now." I feel that this kind of answer might be somewhat realistic for an "average" person (realizing that there is no "other").

Then, one by one, we could try deleting info. The person would forget their name, then their other info, bit by bit. All of the thoughts/memories/knowledge from experiences deleted. What would be left. When the last bit of "info" was deleted, would the person fall limp and "die"? I know the watcher/awareness would be left. Pure awareness. Feeling.

Thoughts exist because there is a watcher/thinker/seer to see/think/listen to them. They cannot exist without the seer. But the watcher/awareness can exist without thoughts. Which, then is more "you"? I would say the awareness.

So, who am I?

The voice of this post and the voice in my head is the false I, the bundle of thoughts, the ego.

The true I is the watcher/seer of the thoughts/voice.

This is how I understand it. Of course, this idea can be found everywhere, and many may have already read "about" it and rejected it. I would be especially interested in hearing about other "people" and their experiences of "being" or "truly knowing who you are". I can say that I have felt something that I describe as "knowing who I am" with great certainty, a small number of times. This is my truth/universe for now.

But, my mind does not know how to look at "other" people. If you are all just reflections of me, and I of you, do "you all" even exist? Ramana says no, all is illusion.

Thanks for reading.

Very interesting, actuallynothing!

Originally posted by actuallynothing
The now cannot be experienced while thinking,

Deepak Chopra, one of my "teachers" calls this "the space between your thoughts" and it's a very neat place to be and to "observe". It's where the real power is.

Thoughts exist because there is a watcher/thinker/seer to see/think/listen to them. They cannot exist without the seer.

He calls this the "observer". The one that is me. The person that notices the things I do. The one who watches without judgment.

Here are a few paragraphs that include a few words on both ideas.

The Flaws of Perception

If I go to see a movie I see on the screen a continuous picture but when I go to the projection room I find out that there is a series of still frames with little spaces in between, but if I move the reel fast enough, I cannot see the ‘off' I can only see the ‘on' so I experience in consciousness a continuity. But the reality is that the movie is a discontinuity. When I see a television programme then I see an image moving from one part of the screen to another part of the screen, but nothing actually moves. Only electrons and photons flash in and out in a certain sequence and because I cannot see the off, I can only see the on, then I experience it as a continuity. Scientists believe that perception is possible because of this discontinuity. All the form and phenomena of the universe expresses this ‘on-ing' and ‘off-ing' and our senses are such that they can perceive the on and not the off and yet without the off we would not experience the on.

As you are reading this, for a second, just turn your attention to who is reading. In that split second of shifting awareness, what you feel is a presence, don't you? As you are reading you become aware of who is reading. Well that presence is your soul. It's not your mind that might be saying “Oh I think I'll have a cup of coffee”. There is a presence and that presence is in the on/off of your thoughts: there is a thought flickering on and off and in that off there is a presence. In that presence thoughts come and they go. So a thought emerges, it hangs on for a fraction of a second, literally, and then it goes. Then of course through association it leads to another thought and that comes and that goes. In that presence emotions come and go. In that presence the perceptions of the world come and go. In that presence the molecules of your body come and go. In that presence everything that happens comes and goes.

Only the presence remains and in Eastern traditions we call that presence the ever-present witnessing awareness, or consciousness. And in Eastern traditions we also say that the window to that presence is in the space between your thoughts.

Biggie smalls- Should have known that you would post such a fabulous thread, my friend.

I have stacks of poetry books ranging from about age 15 to now, 27 years old. I always thought I was alone with my 'life questioning' my constant observing, analysing each situation, and my response and reasoning whithin the scheme of it all. No one around me, ever seemed to share this particular 'hobbie' of mine, and I felt alone in my journey. Therefore, it made my questioning and analysing a misfortune in my eyes, maybe a great punishment, or my personal challenge.

But now, as long as I accept the 'truth' within my heart, and I act upon my spiritual knowlege and humanly understanding, I can look myself in the mirror at night. I am my only judge here in this 'journey', and I am simply judgeing because I owe my spirit, my being, my soul to a far greater judge than I.

My name is Elizabeth. My Mom wanted to name me Jacquiline, but didnt because, "he would never remember how to spell it, it's too complicated." And, honestly, I dont think I spelt it right myself But, one day they were in some random town on the way to VT, and they called, "Come on Beffer (Beth- Bef- Beffer), the shop clerck said, "Whatcha call her, Pepper?" And so I answer to Pepper often. Does this have anything to do with me, myself, who I am? Other than the humor in the nicknames, ect., No not at all.

Many people in life keep a secret war within themselves hidden from others, and often from thyself. They cant face themselves as 'who they are.' They either have no clue, they are scared to find out, or they know, but have little, if not any intention of changing their 'vices'. It's scary, really.

You are who you are destined to be; who you have been of yesterdays; what you have learned around and within you; your efforts and dedication to present surrounding in being true to your soul, and your quest to spread knowledge and love to all that you can.

This is Maslow's hierarchy of motivations, There are 5 basic 'human needs'; 1. physiological needs, 2. safety needs, 3. belongingness, and love needs 4. esteem needs, 5. self-actualization needs.
It is a critiqued theory in different lights. Yet, the concept was very interesting, and 'generaly' applicable in my everyday life. Especially Maslows ideas of a 'self acctualize individual. I believe he considered Elenor Roosevelt as one of the very few people in his life understanding, of fitting the example of a 5th level role.

So, who are we?

[external][edit] Self-actualization
Self-actualization is the instinctual need of humans to make the most of their abilities and to strive to be the best they can.

Self Actualization is the intrinsic growth of what is already in the organism, or more accurately, of what the organism is.[2]

Maslow writes the following of self-actualizing people:

They embrace the facts and realities of the world (including themselves) rather than denying or avoiding them.
They are spontaneous in their ideas and actions.
They are creative.
They are interested in solving problems; this often includes the problems of others. Solving these problems is often a key focus in their lives.
They feel a closeness to other people, and generally appreciate life.
They have a system of morality that is fully internalized and independent of external authority.
They have discernment and are able to view all things in an objective manner.
In short, self-actualization is reaching one's fullest potential. Very few people reach this level, two percent to be exact.

According to Maslow, the tendencies of self-actualizing people are as follows:

1. Awareness

efficient perception of reality
freshness of appreciation
peak experiences
ethical awareness
2. Honesty

philosophical sense of humor
social interest
deep interpersonal relationships
democratic character structure
3. Freedom

need for solitude
autonomous, independent
creativity, originality
spontaneous
4. Trust

problem centered
acceptance of self, others, nature
resistance to enculturation - identity with humanity[/external]

Vipassana
Great fan of Dispatch btw, they are local to my home state.

Sorry off topic, but..
Aren't they the greatest band ever! I just got 'introduced' to them 3 years ago, and I'm still infatuated

p.s.- heres the link on Maslow if anyone wants it, I forgot to post it before. Sorry.



en.wikipedia.org...

I was born a little over 21 years ago to loving parents.

We lived in New York City for a short period of time before moving to the 'bubble' (Connecticut).

I felt sheltered and protected my whole life due to my atmosphere. Nothing could touch me. That definitely helped my self-esteem, but it took me a lot longer to understand a lot of things about the world.

I always had access to travel, that was not the 'problem' I guess you could say.

More or less than when we did travel, it was in style...

I thank God for all the opportunities my parents have given me, but at times I feel a bit babied to be honest. And its not all their doing, I have asked for it as well.

My girlfriend comes from 'the other side of the tracks' so to speak. Her family always helped her out monetarily, but her immediate family never had a whole lot.

She was forced to learn a great deal more due to circumstance. I didn't have to learn as much about how our world works because if I needed something I merely asked for it.

Hard work was not always the most important thing to me. I admit I have been lazy and still are sometimes. I'm as guilty as the next person.

Who am I? I am no wise man, please do not call me that. We all have wisdom to share, I am merely trying to help some others out. I do not deserve praise, no one does!

We are all the same, but different. Our Spirits emanate from the same space (I don't know if I'd call it 'space' but that gets my point across) and were created at the same time.

We all share ONE Spirit. We are equal from that standpoint. However, we do have different experiences and perceptions that set us apart. That is part of the reason life is so entertaining, that we all have a different outlook on life.

The way 'the powers that be' want us to behave, little mindless drones who eat, sleep, buy...Humans brought down to the lowest common denominator. What makes us human beings is our ability to think, question, analyze, and decide our own fate.

Yes decide our own fate. I believe a little bit in predestination, but we always have the opportunity to change our reality. "Thoughts create reality." "Mind over matter."

Ok back to the topic at hand.

I have discovered part of my purpose. I start school in the fall (I just transferred from a school in upstate New York) at a local college. I will be starting Environmental Studies with a focus in Agroecology. I believe this to be part of my 'purpose.'

I feel a need to be self-sustainable in the near future (I would be now if I had the capital and knowhow). I plan on growing my own crops, building my own house, and living off my own 'land.' I don't really believe in property ownership, but let's call it a homestead for the sake of this thread.

So part of my purpose involves being self-sustainable. Another part involves educating myself and as many others as I can to the reality of our current predicament.

We have been lead down the path of darkness by our 'handlers.' They love to see us all in pain. Well quite frankly I've had enough of it. I am leaving society, as soon as possible. I don't plan on coming back for an extended stay. When do I plan on leaving? Within five years, hopefully sooner. I want to finish my studies first and save up for a few years to have a plot to build on. Cob houses are pretty cheap to build so I won't need a whole lot. Worst comes to worst I will escape to the forest and start over...Forage and pillage .

I feel I have a responsibility to educate my family and friends (and those on ATS and complete strangers) with the knowledge I have received. Yes I received knowledge. It was given to me, sometimes in the form of divine inspiration while others I picked up through pieces over time...Often random clues in books or passing by a subway station.

I find signs in almost every day life. Call me crazy, fine. Its my reality and I decide what to do with the information how I so choose.

I would consider myself an aware individual, bordering on the paranoid albeit .

There are blessings and curses that come with being 'aware.' I see things others don't, I pick up subtle signs that others would walk over. So what does that mean? Nothing really. I'm just highly sensitive to sensory input and have tuned myself in enough to pick them up. You can too, just look around and you may find something entertaining or interesting .

In my search for the truth, I have found parts of my Self. My Self has scared me at times and I know there are multiple 'beings' within my overarching Higher Self.

To clarify, I have met another version of my Self. We are not always human in other dimensions my friends, so if you see a creature in front of you don't be afraid of it. Its probably just you . I asked my higher self to let me see another Self from somewhere else. Well I got what I asked for and more...Enter meditation and do the same, you will find your answers on whether or not we're alone.

I KNOW we are not. KNOW. Its not like 'oh I believe in ETs' or 'UFOS.' I have seen both.

You can search my previous posts to find them, I don't really feel like going into the whos or whats right now. I've already wasted enough ats bandwidth describing it a few times .

I follow a mantra 'true love, true light.' This has saved me from multiple encounters where I felt I was being 'attacked' or fooled around with by a not so friendly entity. They seem to be afraid of the light, whether it is ethereal or psychic. Send out love and light energy and no being with questionable morals will be able to stand it. Psychic protection at its best. You will have to be able to visualize though...

I am going to have to continue this in a second post.

I hope this lives up to everyone's expectations (I hope you weren't expecting much ).


Ok BH, I wanted to reply to your ‘who I am’ post.

I already stated my purpose.

I have similar ‘yearnings,’ everything minus drama.

Love
Passion
Strength
(Beauty)
(Honesty/Integrity I think is a part of this, you can’t be honest without integrity vice versa)
Change
Adventure
(Comedy)
Seriousness
(Creativity)

I can’t think of anymore, but there definitely are more.

I do not believe in anything concrete except for my own divinity and others in this game of life. I recognize Spirit within all living things, no matter how ‘decrepit’ or ‘worthless’ the outer appearance may seem. An ant deserves to live just as much as the nuclear physicist (if not more, at least the ant doesn’t destroy ecosystems in its search for Self ☺ ).

Similar ‘beliefs’ but again I don’t hold any concrete notions. I am ready to change at the drop of a hat.

I can tell you what I know about me.

I am a funny person at times, my humor comes in waves. Sometimes I am very funny and drop joke after joke, other times I am completely serious and not funny.

I am sarcastic.

I am passionate.

I am loyal to friends and family, although I may not always show it in ways they wish me to.

I am a loving being.

I am caring.

I love music, making it and listening.

I love animals and nature.

I am an avid hiker although I have not done so much recently.

I love to be physically fit.

I love researching interesting subjects whether they be: scientific, spiritual, humor, history (I love alternative history subjects- not so much a fan of 'school history' books), philosophy, nature, and many more.

I love photography and video production. I am a decent photographer I have been told.

I love writing. Not in school, but free writing.

I love to think. I love to learn. I love to be.

I am whatever I want to be and I want to be a thinker. I always have been.

I just want to emphasize my love of music. I almost always have something playing at home or in the car. Life feels stagnant without it .

I am tall (6'2"), skinny, blonde haired, blue eyed, 'Celtic' looking...Physicality is just another portion of self. As I mentioned in my podcast, another layer of the onion .

I can be very giving and at some times take too much.

I expect a whole lot out of people.

I do not give very much slack to people I feel have given me a short rope. I am lenient with people who show character.

I love reading prophecy and prophesizing.

I love questioning everything. That's why we're all here right .

I am a lover and a fighter. Don't ask how, but I have a warrior spirit as well as lover spirit.

Hm...Anything else....

I am you. 'In Lak'ech'

[edit on 17-7-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by St Udio
the Who of who you are is encased in your DNA

Those transient life path choices make the 'What' you are

I understand your opinion St Udio. I think DNA has some impact on 'who' we are, but does not make us. We decide if we wish to follow our parents' footsteps or make a trail on our own. At first, the path will be nothing more than dirt but after a while it can become a four lane highway .

If you have ever read some of my posts, you will see that I don't follow 'conventional' wisdom. Never have, never will. I use my own conscience as a wayshower and my internal compass to decide what is right and wrong.

I know you use your internal navigator as well, I can feel it. Most of us here do (on ATS) that does not mean we always listen.

I can't really refute your claim on the 'who' we are being encased in our DNA. You may be right. The tree of life holds many secrets. I think there are codes that may dictate our path for us already (it is a possibility) but I do not hold that thought with too much credence.

If my opinion of making my own path is already encoded in my dna...I'd be shocked, but it wouldn't seem out of the ordinary.

I am open to all possibilities.


Note to self: Don't stay up till 2am and wake up at 4am...and expect to be able to function in the morning .

[edit on 17-7-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Ok BH, I wanted to reply to your ‘who I am’ post.

Thank you! I really enjoyed that.

I have similar ‘yearnings,’ everything minus drama.

Yeah, I had to 'own' my love of drama. Not "high-drama" where people make a big deal out of everything, but the drama of love, romance, death, emotional pain and deep feeling. I love that stuff...

(Honesty/Integrity I think is a part of this, you can’t be honest without integrity vice versa)

To me, honesty is telling the truth to other people. Integrity is telling the truth to MYSELF.

Thanks again. That was great.

You are what your mind thinks you are. There is no real you or we there is a state of mind a feeling of selfless nothing more.
I have no idea who am I but I am sure its not the guy I see everytime in the mirror.

I just wanted to add that I am a peacemaker.

I do not wish to see or hear any kind of trauma happening to anyone (whether human or not).

I happen to be hypersensitive. Any kind of negative energy greatly affects me most of the time.

I do have a switch I can turn on and off though...emotional/nonemotional.

Its not always as easy as saying 'no don't affect me.' However, I have been through some very stressful situations with a clear head. Its all about putting up one's shield and dealing with the issue at a later time. One must get to safety before really worrying about nonissues.

Biggie, there is nothing small about you my friend. You mirror me so much it is a reminder of our connectedness, all of us as you put it. I couldnt critique or argue or put down anything you had to say. My sons are here and have read this post , and feel like you put into words for them how they feel about life as well. I love Cob homes and even looked into building one. You need alot of friends to help and that is where it would present too much challenge at this time. We have decided to build a few structures around our property instead. I look forward to getting to know you much better. Thanks for this enlightening thread.

Something just occurred to me. I was reading through some stuff here and I wonder how much astrology has to do with "who we are".

I'm a Virgo, and I fits it pretty well.

Traditional Virgo Traits

Modest and shy
Meticulous and reliable
Practical and diligent
Intelligent and analytical

On the dark side....

Fussy and a worrier
Overcritical and harsh
Perfectionist and conservative

LIKES
Health foods
Lists
Hygiene
Order
Wholesomeness

DISLIKES
Hazards to health
Anything sordid
Sloppy workers
Squalor
Being uncertain

Source

I'm not shy. But everything else is me. Just thinking...

Originally posted by actuallynothing

The universe I experience is unique to me, because I realize that it is filtered uniquely by mind. However, because this is the only universe known to mind, it is difficult for mind to imagine other universes (other people), vastly different due to different experiences. So the only universe I/mind has ever known/know now/and will ever know is MY universe. I can never know understand other people's universes completely.

That is "Actually Something" and my favorite response to this thread with hat-tip to Biggies Smalls for its origin. I had to print out Actually Nothing's response to keep it handy as a quick primer going forward on my quest for inner-self.

Regardless of each and every one of our respective ages, we have all mastered many skills be they music, sports, career etc. But how many of us (although probably more than most on this site) spend much time devoted to our sense of being. At the ripe age of 50, I for one have accomplished many things both material and physical in my life. Perhaps just enough to get by. As I grow older, I am now obsessed with the ponderences of topics such as this, the spiritual nature of our being.

Like many working stiffs, my life is comprised of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. The "measure" of one's life in a chronological world. Although I am not quite ready to delve as deeply as most of you have, I am just now beginning to think of being in the now.

On the weekends, I never wear a watch. It is AMAZING how SLOWLY time seems to pass when I don't and the weekends seem longer to me. I often recall the movie Castaway with Tom Hanks as he was an obsessed person about time ( Fed Ex ) and while marooned, attempted to keep track of his days of isolation. Human nature I suppose, especially if you consider the "Riddle of the Sphinx."

While I am quite well-versed in so many other technical aspects of our world of computers, video, cars etc, it is quite ackward to be a "newbie" on this site.

Thanks for the enlightenment and I look forward to the superb wisdom freely shared on this board to help me going forward. It would seem the rest of mankind is more concerned with ipods, cell phones, American Idol and the plethora of mindless crap which consumes the time they could focus on their inner-self. ( Ooopss, I just described myself.)

Sorry for the long post as I intended to be breif. I should heed my favorite quote of Voltaire, "The secret to being boring is to say everything".

Regards....(more than) kinda kurious

Indeed, like antar, I am finding much of what you say very similar if not exactly the same as how I feel about life. I too am very sensitive, and my passion for existence is limitless. It is obvious to me that your core set of beliefs match mine, and I would assume this can be attributed to the beautiful processes opened up by meditation and diving into the wonders of spirit. And certainly this is not limited to Biggie, many of these responses truly indicate that awakened people have been attracted to this thread. I only wish I knew someone like you guys in person.

Like someone mentioned before, I often feel alone in these ideas and philosophies which have opened my eyes to a way of life that is nothing less than magical. I have tried and tried to engage my friends and family in what I am experiencing, but I know that they never really got into it like I did, they didn't see what I saw. It seems as though only certain people have an aptitude for "exploring the light". However, it's very refreshing to read threads like these, our awakening is clearly collective.

Everyday I am a new person, for every moment of my existence goes towards learning about who I am and how I can change for the better. I also feel a great longing to bring all of humanity into this light, a great longing for real change.

It is our time now..

I personally cannot say with certainty who or what I am or "should be," but I do think that in and of itself says something.

Over the course of my life thus far (and I am still very young by my standards,) I have learned lessons which defined traits, beliefs, and choices I subsequently made, only to have those very lessons turned completely on their heads by contradictory lessons. I am constantly learning that what I think I know isn't nearly as concrete as I would like to think it is, and that those aspects of my personality, desires, and dreams which I regard as central to "who I am" are - at least partially or potentially - not always under my direct control. The lessons I learn continually change from situation to situation, and the reasons for decisions on my part continually change as a result. In short, I am always growing and changing as a conscious entity. That's one reason humility, in my opinion, is critical to personal growth. If there's one thing I've learned thus far, it is to assume nothing and accept the potential for anything and everything.

Perhaps it is impossible - or difficult - to define "who we are," simply because whatever that is changes on a continuing and evolving basis.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Why are you here?

What am I supposed to do?

Ecclesiastes12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Trouble is for me, i know who i am, and where i want to go.. but i don't know how to get there, because society isn't at the level im at. Everytime i open my eyes i am bombarded by systems that i could alter, sometimes just a minor touch, to give rise to better effciency, and betterment for others..

It is defeating for me, because i see perfection everywhere, but yet im still caught up in my own life.. im still a london boy, whos struggling to deal with University, parents who just don't get me, friends who don't want to hear what i have to say, and all the while my personal debt is building, i have nothing to show for my years here, except for wisdom which can't be cashed in. I have no real desire to "learn" from establishment facilities, or to contribute in the way of work to society, because i disgaree with the way things are run, full stop. I no longer wish to participate in British society, but even then, i need money to leave, or money to become self sufficient.. i need to brake out

I guess you could say money is holding me back. If i had enough to be able to do what i want, i could spend my life writing books, creating art, sharing the truth with people.. instead of just trying to earn enough money to maintain the luxuries given to me since birth. I feel like i have a key for humanity, but i have no way to get myself out there without losing what little i have already.. if i could know that i would be taken care of whilst doing my journey, that would be alright, but its the not knowing that gets me. Not knowing where to go with myself.. if i started earning money, i would spend spend spend.. but i don't want to earn, because i don't want to spend.. all i need is my guitar and computer/internet, not meaningless possessions.

Im in need of a breakthrough in my life, or even better than that, a breakthrough for humanity and the way society runs. Its the most frustrating thing when you KNOW that humanity is capable of being better than we are now, capable of turning Earth into a paradise beyond our dreams. The technology is sitting there, waiting to be used, but we allow the elite to hold us back..

If only i could reach into every human mind all at once, and show them, hint to them..

I know i decided to incarnate in this position for a reason. I feel like im steadily getting towards that reason, but at the same time falling out of love with society/modern life.. *garh*..

What do i do.. im at a crossroads. Do i continue with University, something that will not matter anyway, and doesn't matter (degree means nothing), or do i go get a job, get stuck in a rut, become neurotic and waste away my life like the rest of humanity?.. I need a miracle.

End rant..

I get you, Biggie!

Its as if we all know that we are destined to be a part in 'sustaining the beauty' in life. But, through our 'family, friends, relationship commitments, and our constant money 'rat race' we are forced to live in, we are working against the grain.

But isn't that the nature of a 'true, whole being'? It's all about the struggle we can endure, based on our 'mental/physical/earthly connections to life as a whole, and our knowlege of SELF. With these powers we have, eventually we'll be able to shape that 'wood' any way we want, and make our own friggin 'grain'

Again, Nice thread - I love you fellow ATS enlighteners!
What was that again,...'Where there is a will, theres a...'.
Always!!! Dont give up guys!

Originally posted by nowayreally
What was that again,...'Where there is a will, theres a...'.

.....Relative ;-)

kk