Who recorded the cell phone calls from the planes ?

This would lead me to believe that the plane was shot down and that the cell phone calls where faked to hide the fact that it was shot down and not hijacked.

You are kidding right? Somehow you truly believe it was possible for someone to take the passenger list, find enough samples of their voices, program them into a synthesizer well enough to fool their families, in less than two hours?

If the plane was shot down, wouldn't there be a very large amount of debris that was over a very large area?

Yes. Since it would most likely have been an AIM-9 (heat seeking) missile used, you wouldnt have found engines as the misshapen lumps of metal that flight 93's engines were. The impact of the missile would have scattered pieces of the engine over a WIDE area.

Originally posted by russ1969
You showed me nothing.

I wasn't trying to show *you* anything.

sir_chancelot asked:

" You know, the Mark Bingham of "Hello Mom, It's Mark BINGHAM.... You believe me don't you mom?" fame. When was the last time you called your parents and even used your FIRST name, never mind your LAST NAME?"

In response to that question I provided the link where Bingham's Mother states that it wasn't the first time he greeted her in that fashion over the phone. That's it.

You are the only one having a problem understanding that.

As for the other topics you're fixated on; I couldn't care less.

Ill ignore you and never listen to a word you say

Please. Do.

I never really thought of that. You know, for a planned attack from our government, they couldnt really plan very well. Pretty soon all will be in the open.

Originally posted by nightmare_david
I remember there was a woman that lost her son and she came out to say that the person calling her from the plane WAS NOT her son.

She said that he sounded like her son, but he was saying things that made no sense at all and was laughing at one point and was too calm. She said that all his life he called her "mama", not mom or mother and he kept saying "mother" over the phone and even said "don't you believe it's me?" while giggling.

I remember hearing of others who came out with similar stories about calls they were getting that were apparently thier loved ones and they were acting similar. Not making sense, too calm and laughing.

Typical conspiracy mentality.

It doesn't EVER enter your mind that these people are being kidnapped and have just seen someone have their throat slit?

Why wouldn't that enter into your internal debate about this subject?

You expect people to act normal under those conditions?

Originally posted by scottr.
I never really thought of that. You know, for a planned attack from our government, they couldnt really plan very well. Pretty soon all will be in the open.

This is the smartest thing that has been expressed in this thread. They did not nor do they have the capability to pull off something of this magnitude and cover it up. A shooting or a suicide, sure, but 4 planes attacking the continental US. That is even more than Clancy put into his book and it was fiction.

I am curious however to know what type of cell phones were used. I know that there were air phones but what would be able to send a signal in 2001?
This is a link to an article written pre-9/11.

www.caa.co.za...

There has been an inflight ban since 1991 on inflight cell calls so the technology is there. Calls are recorded usually at the palce of the reception of the call if it is a call center or a government installation. It would have been recorded using software more than likely. That is how the systems I have worked with were used. Everything you do on a computer or Ceridian phone can be tracked, recoded and played back. It is funny to watch people tell you that they did not do soemthing and then show them proof. It is all about CYA.

or go right to the source

www.fcc.gov...



[edit on 18-7-2007 by esdad71]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
There is NOTHING weird or suspect in the time differences. Just different systems set differently.

Actually there is something VERY weird about it.

ALL large computer networks (FAA, NIST, Columbia LDEO, AA, UAL, ATT, Cell networks, Phone networks, Cable carriers, Etc.) and every device that connects to them sync their time with an Network Time Protocol server that syncs with, usually, the USN atomic clock.

Even small Windows based networks use external time sources or the OS will bitch until an external source is configured.

I cannot speak to the black boxes, but one must assume there is some sort of synchronization or they would be essentially useless. John Lear probably can speak to the black boxes.

Regarding the last post by Iattackpeople: All i was saying is that the video didnt show much and the statements made in writing are not the same as reported in the official report. look at my last post and look at the link 9/11 hijacking chart. And if you believe the official report than why would you get your sources from anywhere else. And if you dont believe the official report than wouldnt you have the same questions that some of us have.

Dont get me wrong, Im looking for answers. It is obvious that everyone here is passionate about there beliefs. So lets not get bad feelings for one another. We can debate without getting upset.

Unless you turn off the synchronization on the pc's or the networks which can occur if there is no outside internet access or they are behind a firewall which all of those servers would be.

Also, in 2004 the FCC submitted and was later rejected the request for the ability to use cell phones in flight.

Originally posted by esdad71
Unless you turn off the synchronization on the pc's or the networks which can occur if there is no outside internet access or they are behind a firewall which all of those servers would be.

This is TOTAL BS. ALL commercial/government networks are behind firewalls, usually multiple. The local time server initiates an OUTBOUND PAT/NAT connection on the NTP port (which is allowed in even the most secure networks) and the packets are allowed in because the connection is considered "established" from within.

Furthermore, the client devices/PC are secured via policy in almost all cases and time synchronization cannot be disabled.

Don't even try me on this. Your post is silly at best... We are not talking about your home PC.

Time synchronization is a VERY important part of every commercial/military WAN/CAN/MAN/LAN/phone and cell network and is not just left willy nilly and unsynchronized.

I am talking about back end DBA/app server that may not have outside sync or companies create inhouse software for security. I am not talking about a dell pc behind a symantec firewall for gods sake. More than likely if it is a large database it is Unix with Oracle or maybe SQL that log the calls then if there is additional software to which there are many, thatare also saved as a proprietary file type to be retrieved for review or viewing.

I am simply stating that if servers are not allowed outside access and are within a LAN only for LAN access there could be sync issues with your global clcok Believe what you want Poot but you are talking out your Poot to be honest.

I had to do an wireless networking in Iraq for Wackenhut which was a nightmare because they are using hardware and software that is non compatible but you make it work. Before you jump the gun play nice man.

I mean, you could also call the NSA and I am sure they can help you with all the calls from that day also.

If you want an even funnier twist to the Atomic clock issue, would you like to know who holds the servers? Who has the Atomic evidence to make sure it is all correct. That's right Poot, your friend and mine...


NIST isn;t that a kick in the ass?????

tf.nist.gov...

Here a link for you...

my verizon phone says 10:28....my computer says 10:30.....can i have linkage to an official site that everyone claims has the time discrepancy...or a CT'er site with links to the official site?...not just a word of mouth CT'er site??

Originally posted by Pootie

How long does it take a detective, judge, poker player or good shrink to deduce if someone is likely to by lying?

What does that have to do with anything? So you have to be Phil freakin Ivey or Columbo to wade through everything some of you people believe?

I believe flight 93 was shot down. By very good, but unprovable sources I have.

You, "pootie" claimed she is a liar. The burden of proof is on you to show that she is. Show me that the federal government, the "Bush Administration" no less, didn't have several hours of her son's phone calls recorded. You can't. Just as well as I can't prove that his voice wasn't used as a false flag and was recorded by the government. Moot point, we both lose. Hire a PI if it really matters to you, you claim that they can pick out liars in 15 seconds of video. I'd be intersted to see what one says.

I personally don't believe that the mother of a 9-11 victim is going to go on record to defend the "official" story if it isn't true and she knows it. But you can. Because you don't have any tangible evidence otherwise.

Every aspect of the official story doesn't have to be wrong for the conspiracies to be true!!!

edit: right to wrong in the final sentence.


[edit on (7/19/0707 by PistolPete]

I am sure 93 was shot down and the political consequences of the order were avoided by covering it up. I am not sure if anyone has posted this:

www.youtube.com...

Where there is smoke, there is fire. I am doubtful that this is a mistake, more like a freudian slip.

it was posted in a nother forum....it's being discussed right now as a typo of a writere.....these big wigs dont write there own stuff....

Originally posted by esdad71
I am talking about back end DBA/app server that may not have outside sync or companies create inhouse software for security. I am not talking about a dell pc behind a symantec firewall for gods sake. More than likely if it is a large database it is Unix with Oracle or maybe SQL that log the calls then if there is additional software to which there are many, thatare also saved as a proprietary file type to be retrieved for review or viewing.

These Relational Database Systems would be the first and most important to maintain NTP synchronization on... I am missing your point. You are seriously out gunned on this topic... "Backend DBA/app server" ??? A PERSON is a DBA first of all. The DB server is the BACKEND, the app servers are either middleware servers or frontend... this statement alone should allow you a graceful exit from this debate. You do not install frontend/middleware applications on DB servers in virtually ANY environment.

Originally posted by esdad71
I am simply stating that if servers are not allowed outside access and are within a LAN only for LAN access there could be sync issues with your global clcok Believe what you want Poot but you are talking out your Poot to be honest.

A simple directly attached $100 clock that receives the USN broadcast time signals would be used in this case. Enough with your firewalls and disconnected networks. You are creating highly unlikely and easily, securely remedied issues.

www.atomicclockrugbymsf.co.uk...

Originally posted by esdad71
I had to do an wireless networking in Iraq for Wackenhut which was a nightmare because they are using hardware and software that is non compatible but you make it work. Before you jump the gun play nice man.

I architect WAN/LAN/CAN/MAN networks for Fortune 100 companies, BIG networks, WAN/VLAN routing, MDF/IDF switching, AAA/Radius, VPN, Firewalling, dIDS, every type and size of server you can imagine, SAN/NAS, blades, etc. hosting virtually every application you can imagine. I carry a BS in ME and top level certs from Cisco, Oracle, MS, Checkpoint, Citrix and many others. I am a a top gun in this arena and do not waste my time installing WAPs. We are not talking about Iraq... we are talking about FEDERAL AGENCIES and FORTUNE 100 companies.

Your lax attitude on NTP is NOT SHARED by the big guns in the industry and you are totally wrong.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

Originally posted by PistolPete
The burden of proof is on you to show that she is.

No, the burden of proof is on the government to provide verified copies of all evidence so that it can be qualified outside parties... which, to this date they have failed to do.

I believe she is a liar and the story is a fabrication and the government has provided no tangible evidence to prove their own position.

IN smalled companies they will apply apps to DB servers as well as web servers with horrible security. THis happens so do not say that it does not. In larger companies they will have all apps on racks as well as most DB's using firewalls and proxies for access. IT is not magic and I am trying to make it accessible to understand and not throw out a bunch of acronyms.

A person such as myself is a DBA, a DB would be the database. Wow, a misspelling. You got me. I am certified on SQL 2000/2005 and Oracle. I work with Cisco PIX in numerous enviroments as well as Citrix, UNix and numerous software applications that use my companies software. DIfference is I do not maintain I troubleshoot and fix it. THere is a big difference. ANyone can use software but it is something else to fix it.

So, those Fortune 500 compaines allow you to synchronize all of their data and information to a 100 clock you by off a website from GB? I was really hoping you thought it was humerous that it is NIST that supplies the atomic clock.

ENough with firewalls and highly unlikely scenarios? Obviously you do not world in real world applications with multiple compaines in different locations who all have differing policy on security and network software.

We have the same certs too, so this is something that we should be able to talk about and not attack each other on.


SNTP is what it is called and the most common used is time.nist.gov but there are others that supply the same function and you are correct, they are very valuable to organizations. Usually the machines are synchronized by the network time server or you can set it to update via the web. You see, there are places inside of a domain that can be set to control the time therefore it would not sync ot an outside source and you would have varying times.

Does this explain it a little better for you?

So basically, if the NTSB or FAA use a time server for synchronization and lets say UNited uses the web, you could have a variance in time.

This means if a call was recorded on one server and the inbound call information was on another in another location or domain you could have a difference in the time stamp.

Originally posted by Pootie
I believe she is a liar and the story is a fabrication and the government has provided no tangible evidence to prove their own position.

Why? She provided a statement about what her own son said....you and the Loose Change crew picked it apart and called her a liar. Sorry pootie, you are the one that has to offer the evidence to back up your accusation.

Fact is, you can't..so believe all you want and call her story what you want.