Lets settle this "UK is a Police State" rubbish, right now..

Originally posted by discomfit
All people who litter, violate traffic laws and "anti-social" types please report to the closest government office to give a DNA sample.

I repeat, the UK is not a police state.

Cheers !

ANYONE who is charged with a crime has had to provide DNA and fingerprints for years already. The latest "hype" is media driven and is nothing new. At the end of the day, the only reason they hold it is in case you should commit crime again in the future. Makes it easier for them to identify you.

Solution?

Don't commit crime... Duh..

I am one of those. Got done for assault in my teen years and my DNA and fingerprints are on file. Now, in the 7 years since being convicted, I have had no trouble from the Police. No monitoring, no hassle. Nothing. But, if I was to go and burgle somewhere (one of the hardest crimes to solve without fingerprint/DNA evidence), they would know it was me and the crime would be punished.

I don't understand what the problem is? If you don't want to be hassled by the Police, don't be an anti-social yob, thief, or worse.

It's really simple, folks.

Oh, and thanks for the pleasant comments from the other posters

Your input is appreciated

[


Solution?

Don't commit crime... Duh..



I don't understand what the problem is? If you don't want to be hassled by the Police, don't be an anti-social yob, thief, or worse.

It's really simple, folks.

Oh, and thanks for the pleasant comments from the other posters

Your input is appreciated

Really?

This opinion seems to be fairly popular on ATS.

It's interesting that people seem to roll out this 'solution' as easy as that, but appear not to be bothered about the fact that "the law" is not a fixed thing - it CHANGES!!

Some actions that were within 'the law' last year in the UK and the US for example are AGAINST the 'law' now. Check out the new laws about peaceful protest (UK) and freedom of speech (US) amongst dozens of others...

What is within the 'law' now may well not be within the 'law' next year for example.

How much control do you feel we have over what is within 'the law'?

Frankly I'm amazed that people still 'roll over' when their governments/media tell them to - do people really buy that 'be a good citizen' brainwash crap?

Once enough laws are in place to effectively render any dissent illegal, governments will then be able to pass any legislation they feel like with impunity.

So, as long as you are in full agreement with everything your Government ever decides you can and cannot do then you'll be fine......

Maybe read '1984', and watch 'Bladerunner' and 'V for Vendetta' for a taste of what's to come....

Originally posted by awake
Really?

This opinion seems to be fairly popular on ATS.

It's interesting that people seem to roll out this 'solution' as easy as that, but appear not to be bothered about the fact that "the law" is not a fixed thing - it CHANGES!!

Yes, but Law's are not changed by decree. They have to go through the Parliamentary process, which so far and throughout history (for several centuries), has not produced a "Police State".

For crying out loud, the Government can't get it's "flagship" security policies though, such as ID card's and the extended detention. What makes you think they could get anything more nefarious through?

Originally posted by awake
Some actions that were within 'the law' last year in the UK and the US for example are AGAINST the 'law' now. Check out the new laws about peaceful protest (UK) and freedom of speech (US) amongst dozens of others...

What new "laws" are you pertaining to (UK wise?). Apart from the ban on protests directly outside Westminster Palace (mainly because one bum decided to take it too far and basically made a right mess), nothing has changed.

You also have the right to challenge legislation and can take it to High Court, or the European Court if you want. Most people don't bother, either because they agree with it or just don't care enough to do anything about it.

Originally posted by awake
What is within the 'law' now may well not be within the 'law' next year for example.

New legislation has to go through the Parliamentary process. If you care enough, you can keep up to date on developments. You can write your MP, protest, whatever. make your voice heard.

I bet my bottom dollar all those complaining about the UK being a Police State have never got off their behinds and actually protested, probably don't know who their MP is and don't even know their rights as a citizen.

Andy1033 is a prime example. Complaining about some fictitious police harassment, but has evidently done jack all about it.

Originally posted by awake
How much control do you feel we have over what is within 'the law'?

Quite a bit. If you care enough, there is plenty you can do. If you REALLY care, stand as an MP. Anyone can do it. You don't need to be rich, old or have gone to Eton to get into parliament.

Originally posted by awake
Frankly I'm amazed that people still 'roll over' when their governments/media tell them to - do people really buy that 'be a good citizen' brainwash crap?

Who's rolling over? Rolling over at what? These kind of blanket statements, without any sort of corroboration or a hint as to what it is that is so wrong and just dumb. What exactly is it that you feel we are "rolling over" about?

Originally posted by awake
Once enough laws are in place to effectively render any dissent illegal, governments will then be able to pass any legislation they feel like with impunity.

The UK Government has had the power to do that for decades. But doesn't. Even during the World War's, a Police state would have been so easy to implement, but wasn't.

All they have to do is implement a State of Emergency and they can do what they please. However, it isn't desirable. Politicians are people too and are subject to the law like everyone else. Even a State of Emergency has to be approved by Parliament every 30 days.

Originally posted by awake
So, as long as you are in full agreement with everything your Government ever decides you can and cannot do then you'll be fine......

I'm not in agreement with much the Government does. I despise the current Labour party and all it stands for. All they have done is turn the UK into a Nanny State, which is a whole different kettle of fish to a Police State. I think most people here, including yourself, have confused the two.

Originally posted by awake
Maybe read '1984', and watch 'Bladerunner' and 'V for Vendetta' for a taste of what's to come....

Seen them all, thanks.

1984, we're nothing close. Try reading the book, rather than the film. If you have read the book you'd realise any comparison with "1984" is utter bollocks.

Bladerunner? WTF? We're nothing close. Plus that was America. Besides, killing convicted murderers and rapists in a pit of death on live TV seems like a good time.... I'll set a reminder on my Sky.

V for Vendetta? Showed that People Power works. Still, we're nothing close.

Thank you, please come again....

EDIT: Nice to see your quote of what I said omitted the part about my own personal experience. That puts the whole thing into context, really. But you chose to misquote me and cut a large body of text out, removing my point.

[edit on 8/8/07 by stumason]

UK has no need to do its own citizens just yet because they don't have any guns and media propaganda keeps them under wraps.

Biggest threats to liberty we face are ID cards (I will not be buying one) and corporate fascism.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by otester]

The BBC

A man spotted wearing a T-shirt bearing an "offensive" slogan in a city centre has been warned he risks an £80 fine if he is caught again.

Forklift driver David Pratt was told by street wardens in Peterborough he could cause offence or incite violence.

...

"It is insane. I have worn it in the city centre hundreds of times", said Mr Pratt, whose wife bought him the T-shirt in Venice Beach, California.

Yipee for freedom.

So, it is potentially a penalty offence to wear a shirt, or anything else I suppose, which may be considered to be offensive. Hopefully this may mean that all those people who think it is somehow big or amusing to do their very best to offend others by wearing clothing from that well known retailer whose name is an unsubtle anagram of what would, (on this site at least), be an unacceptable four letter word beginning with "f" may soon find their t-shirts becoming a rather expensive luxury.

Hopefully those so penalised may also fall foul of a long overdue initiative in Birmingham to crack down on the morons who seem convinced that everyone within a half mile radius is just dying to listen to whatever horrific rubbish they have on their car stereo as well

bbc.co.uk

Hey, this police state thing is beginning to look quite attractive...


[edit on 14-8-2007 by timeless test]

Originally posted by otester

Biggest threats to liberty we face are ID cards (I will not be buying one) and corporate fascism.

It could be argued that the biggest threat to liberty we face in the UK is apathy .... Current Govt was elected by less that 25% of the voting public.

I don't consider ID cards a threat to liberty though - just an insult to my intelligence and further evidence against the govt for bringing the human race into disrepute.

ID cards will make terrorism easier though - I mean, who'd suspect anyone with an ID card could possibility be a terrorist? Unlike 89 year old Mrs Green from down the street who couldn't afford £90 to buy an ID card .....

Back on subject though - by definition the UK can't be a police state and by and large most of the measures introduced here that people claim make us a police state either have the support of the populace or (like CCTV) have actually been introduced by the populace of their own accord. We also still have opposition MPs, any person can stand for election, and the Royal Family are not yet in exile.

Oh, and I have a few friends in the police force, just in case

Cor that bloke in the piccy with the T-shirt has a real criminal mullet there!! He should of been nicked for that first !!

He also looks like the bloke that ol two jags took a swing at , Now we cannot be a police state if blokes with hair like that can walk around freely and just get pulled up for his shirt , which imoh is rather tasteless and childish ...

Git



[edit on 14-8-2007 by completenuttergit]

Originally posted by discomfit
The BBC

A man spotted wearing a T-shirt bearing an "offensive" slogan in a city centre has been warned he risks an £80 fine if he is caught again.

Forklift driver David Pratt was told by street wardens in Peterborough he could cause offence or incite violence.

...

"It is insane. I have worn it in the city centre hundreds of times", said Mr Pratt, whose wife bought him the T-shirt in Venice Beach, California.

Yipee for freedom.

Right.

Some key points to be made here.

Firstly, he was only advised by WARDENS that he MAY RISK a fine from POLICE. He was not fined, nor told to remove the shirt. If you read the following quote from the Council themselves, it sheds a little more light:

"In what was an amicable conversation, the street warden advised the gentleman concerned that his T-shirt could cause offence and if he was to wear it again he could run the risk of being issued an £80 on-the-spot fine from the police."

Amicable conversation.

That means a Warden probably saw the shirt (and probably had a chuckle) then advised the Mullet haired Yank that he may risk a fine from Police.

Now, Street wardens have bugger all power and most do NOT know the law. All the warden did was advise him he may end up getting fined. It's like me telling you that you might be done for speeding if you do 74 MPH on the Motorway. Doesn't mean I have actually fined you for speeding, does it?

The Police will probably not take any action against him if they did see him about, as to be honest, it is hardly worth the paperwork. Although, I agree, he should be arrested for that haircut, or, at the very least, deny his citizenship application..

The Mullet haired Yank also has filed a complaint with the council over the interpretation of the law, even though no offence was committed.

How is that equating to a Police state?

Excuse me but your legalism is still here in america and is shown by the way our very own flag is flown in the law centers. Your way of thinking is still here also, stupid rowed apartment buildings. Its annoying and lame and I hate it. Yes I liked your country when I was there 10 years ago. Not that much though. And until the queen is put to shame, I wont return.
Stop messin with america, the world is not your playground.

So the english dudes who report for infowars are lying? That makes sense since all theyve done is tell the truth.

No pleasing some people!!

Just what Jesus said Sir ....

Originally posted by mastermind77
Excuse me but your legalism is still here in america and is shown by the way our very own flag is flown in the law centers. Your way of thinking is still here also, stupid rowed apartment buildings. Its annoying and lame and I hate it. Yes I liked your country when I was there 10 years ago. Not that much though. And until the queen is put to shame, I wont return.
Stop messin with america, the world is not your playground.

So the english dudes who report for infowars are lying? That makes sense since all theyve done is tell the truth.

What are you on about?

Seems like a crazy rant to me. A badly punctuated and spelled one at that.

reply to post by mastermind77


Ah, another anti-Brit post.
How predictable considering some of your posts on other threads.

You won't be returning you say, well, quite frankly, I hardly suspect that we'll miss you.

At least try to support your ramblings with reasoned arguements or sources etc.

Mastermind... I think not.

Mastermind??

the sharp point of a pin comes to mind ...

Why should the Queen be put to shame?? please enlighten??
Oh, ur going to come out with some lizzard nonsense . WAKE UP!
And (ow poor ENGLISH) how exactly would we THE BRITISH consider the world our playground?? If it wasnt for British brains what would u have???

NO flippin TV !! thanks to a scottish brain .... jeepers where would u all be without that???

Telephone? alexanrdra was British . hell even Harley and Davidson were British oh yeah good ol amercan name that !!

oh were sooo bad if that is the case drop ur spoken and written language.

really wound by the hypocrisy of it all...

Regards lol

total Git





[edit on 27-8-2007 by completenuttergit]

Originally posted by mastermind77
Excuse me but your legalism is still here in america and is shown by the way our very own flag is flown in the law centers. Your way of thinking is still here also, stupid rowed apartment buildings. Its annoying and lame and I hate it. Yes I liked your country when I was there 10 years ago. Not that much though. And until the queen is put to shame, I wont return.
Stop messin with america, the world is not your playground.

So the english dudes who report for infowars are lying? That makes sense since all theyve done is tell the truth.

Well since America was a former British colony, I'm not at all surprised that it has retained aspects of British law, culture, architecture...oh and of course the most widely spoken of the British languages: English - which you have obviously struggled to master; even in its bastardised Americana form.

I find it funny that you ask Britain to "Stop messin with america", perhaps you should review you own countries foreign policy first before throwing that stone.

Is the UK a police state ....?

Sorry Stu, but if it aint already, it's certainly headed that way.

last week I flew into Stansted and thought I'd arrived at JFK by mistake

... armed cops in flak jackets driving military painted range rovers all the way to the M11!

Did you see this one:

www.timesonline.co.uk...
UK to begin Total Child Records next year - unless you're a politician or Celeb.

There'll be brown shirts marching in the streets before you know it mate

[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]

Originally posted by RogerT
Is the UK a police state ....?

Sorry Stu, but if it aint already, it's certainly headed that way.

Elaborate.

Originally posted by RogerT
last week I flew into Stansted and thought I'd arrived at JFK by mistake

... armed cops in flak jackets driving military painted range rovers all the way to the M11!

Oh no. How horrible that must have been.... Security at an airport? Why would they do such a thing...

Originally posted by RogerT
Did you see this one:

www.timesonline.co.uk...
UK to begin Total Child Records next year - unless you're a politician or Celeb.

Blown out of proportion this story.

Firstly, "celebs" and certain politicians children are not exempt from the database. Based on a risk assessment, their details may be omitted from the main database, but will still be there for cleared users to access, not every user.

Secondly, this is all information they already have. The problem is the dispersal of the information around a multitude of various sources. Having it all in one place makes it alot easier to manage.

I have a child as does my girlfriend. Cannot say I am worried about this, as they already have the information. This just centralises it.

Originally posted by RogerT
There'll be brown shirts marching in the streets before you know it mate

No, there won't.

Originally posted by stumason

Oh no. How horrible that must have been.... Security at an airport? Why would they do such a thing...

don't know really, can you tell me?

would love to know why I have to take my shoes off too in the US and the UK but nowhere else I travel.

and just how many planes have been successfully hijacked with a pair of nail clippers .... or tweezers "hand over the plane or I'll pluck ya"

mate, you need to get out a bit more. coming back to the uk after a few years away is a bit of a shocker.

still nowhere near as scary as the states, but the mood has definitely shifted.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]

Originally posted by RogerT
don't know really, can you tell me?

Probably something to do with crazy idiots trying it on every now and then...

Just a guess....

Originally posted by RogerT
would love to know why I have to take my shoes off too in the US and the UK but nowhere else I travel.

What? Take your shoes off? Since when?

Originally posted by RogerT
mate, you need to get out a bit more. coming back to the uk after a few years away is a bit of a shocker.

Bit of an assumption isn't it? I'll have you know I've lived outside the UK for as many years as I've lived in it. I also holiday abroad. My brother regularly travels to the States, as well as other far flung places such as Oz and the Far East and describes nothing like what you have.

Originally posted by RogerT
still nowhere near as scary as the states, but the mood has definitely shifted.

Things change. The mood probably feels different due to the current world situation. Things are fudged up all over the place and to be honest, I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

Originally posted by stumason
What? Take your shoes off? Since when?

I don't know since when, but certainly on Wednesday last, leaving Stansted, everyone had to take off their shoes, except those in flip flops, and a man in a uniform with a big gun was on hand to make sure you didn't argue

And people are still having their nail clippers and tweezers confiscated

And I can't have a roll of wire or rope longer than a metre, but I can have a laptop or walkman power cable longer than a metre?!?

oh I forgot, no more perfume in your handbag, or bottle of evian, unless you buy it in duty free ... come on man, how many planes have been hijacked with a pair of tweezers or nail clippers?

[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]