Larry King Live to talk about UFOs Friday

SHERMER: Wait. This looks like balsa wood and tape --

FREIDMAN: Of course, it does.

(CROSSTALK)

FREIDMAN: But that's not what was found --

SHERMER: And that's what they said it is.

FREIDMAN: That's not what was found --

SHERMER: Yes, it is.

FREIDMAN: -- out in the desert.

I love how Michael Shermer claims to know the absolute truth, even though he never saw the debris - in fact he wasn't even born at the time of the Roswell crash - has a witness of the debris sitting right next to him saying he saw a completely different material... but yet, he is the one who knows the truth.

He talked about scientific thinking and assertions.. how can he even say something like that? He didn't saw the material, he didn't inspect it, he probably didn't even speak with anyone who allegedly came in contact with the material...

Like that thread started a while ago, it really is true.. only the 'believers' have to explain and prove their point of view. The skeptics get away with the most unfounded bull#.

lol at buzz ripping the guy at the end about venus.

Originally posted by danx
He talked about scientific thinking and assertions.. how can he even say something like that?

Because that's how everybody described the debris at the time. Sorry, you can’t just rewrite history.

Also, Marcel Jr.'s description of the debris is remarkably consistent with the remnants of a Mogul balloon… only exaggerated in the way an 11 year old could appreciate. Sounds to me like his father was just pulling his leg.

Poor kid.

Originally posted by yeti101
lol at buzz ripping the guy at the end about venus.

You're welcome about the movie....

doe you mean this sentence ?

ALDRIN: I was flying a T-33 I guess and I looked out and I saw a star out there. But it wasn't a star, it was Venus. But it kept following me all along. And you would swear that it's another object out there. And you can turn -- and I want to congratulate you on your magic show last night, with all the illusions, because now we're getting a lot more illusions tonight. And can you explain everything that happened with Criss Angel last night? No, you can't explain it.

So wat he is saying is that he as an astronaut couldn't see the difference between a star and Venus...shame on him.

As far as i am concerned......Edward Aldrin is just a moon hoaxer.

And he wil stick to his lies..till the end....as a good freemasonry .

no he knew it was venus but it still looked like it was following him- his point is optical illusions are real!

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I think the Ufology community can have impossibly high standards sometimes and your comment illustrates this. At least this high quality information is getting into the mainstream where it belongs.

Disclosure can be messy.

Nah, that was just simply a mess, a complete zoo. There wasn't any high quality info involved, as there wasn't any time for anyone to expand upon anything. Having seven guests on a 60 minute show (including commercials), with a contentious topic, is an exercise in futility. If they'd had the same amount of time that Cooper's show, which followed King, has then it might have been salvaged. It was bad TV, King had no control over the discussion, and only furthers the fact that the mainstream really hasn't a clue how to handle this.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by Jay L.]

Originally posted by yeti101
lmao at friedman whipping out his latest book to make his point. "the betty and barney hill case goes back to 1961 this is my new book on the subject" (holds it up on screen for a while) LOL

That was a classic.

FREIDMAN: They were strange little guys and the work was done to illicit these memories by a psychiatrist who had no interest in UFOs, didn't believe in flying saucers, kept trying to make them think oh, it was Betty's dream.

And one of the things we do in the book is go over how he was pushing them in the direction of not alien, despite all the evidence that it was alien.

What he doesn’t tell you this hypnosis wasn’t performed until a year AFTER their “sighting” and Betty had been going to a “UFO study group” and talking about her “dreams” where she no doubt was encouraged to believe her dreams were real. What Stanton also won’t tell you is although the psychiatrist indeed believed they believed what they were saying LOL, he cocncluded Betty was prone to fantasies and Barney likely “recovered” his memories from her talking about them all the time.

Originally posted by yeti101
no he knew it was venus but it still looked like it was following him- his point is optical illusions are real!

No you're not right....he said :

I looked out and I saw a star out there. But it wasn't a star, it was Venus.

So he saw a star. period.

Originally posted by Access Denied
Also, Marcel Jr.'s description of the debris is remarkably consistent with the remnants of a Mogul balloon… only exaggerated in the way an 11 year old could appreciate. Sounds to me like his father was just pulling his leg.

Poor kid.

So.. his father, Major Jesse Marcel - the RAAF's head intelligence officer - came in at 1 or 2 am from the debris field, woke up his kid and wife to showed them a bunch of ordinary weather balloon materials, told them it came from a space ship.. just to prank them.

Not to mention that he managed to break his oath in the process of that prank, since if it was a Mogul balloon it was a classified project at the time.

What a jokester!

But yeah.. that sounds incredibly plausible to me.

Buzzz aldrin is an ass, he should have been sitting next to the sckeptic guy, also why is it that he had an ear peice on did anyone else notice that ? i think he was told to debunk it as well, for that matter larry king is an ass at that also, soo we will all know the truth and then it will be to late

Originally posted by danx
So.. his father, Major Jesse Marcel - the RAAF's head intelligence officer - came in at 1 or 2 am from the debris field, woke up his kid and wife to showed them a bunch of ordinary weather balloon materials, told them it came from a space ship.. just to prank them.

Not to mention that he managed to break his oath in the process of that prank, since if it was a Mogul balloon it was a classified project at the time.

What a jokester!

My point exactly!

Don’t forget this is all according to Marcel Jr. who didn't say this until AFTER his father died... go figure.

By the way even his Dad said the debris in (at least one of?) the photographs is what he recovered so that's what Jr. would have seen... that is of course assuming he ever actually saw it the first place.

P.S. Even if he did bring it home, Marcel Sr. would have had no way of knowing it was related to Mogul yet. Project Mogul was compartmentalized and Marcel wouldn’t have had a need to know before then that it was anything other than meteorological balloon research.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by Access Denied]

I dont believe Stanton Friedman to be a credible source mainly because people like Bill Cooper claim hes a C.I.A disinformant, as well as Bob Lazaar.


Read Bill Coopers book, he elaborates on the subject way better than any CNN broadcast will allow.

Originally posted by Access Denied
P.S. Even if he did bring it home, Marcel Sr. would have had no way of knowing it was related to Mogul yet. Project Mogul was compartmentalized and Marcel wouldn’t have had a need to know before then that it was anything other than meteorological balloon research.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by Access Denied]

Just a small note here if I may. As far as I recall, Jesse Marcel Sr. was an intelligence officer - he had a need to know so he would have known anything and everything that's going on around there and perhaps more. These guys were the ones handling the atomic bomb, and at that time there was no higher secrecy or need to know than that.

Furthermore, there was no compartmentalization or black budget secrecy, the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) that we know of was in its infancy (if around at all) - the big boys did not learn to cover their tracks and compartmentalize projects until much later on.
Remember, Eisenhower's delivered his speech in 1961 warning the world of the MIC getting stronger/gaining power and slipping out of control. That's 14 years after Roswell, and Eisenhower would've known about it anyway.

Originally posted by amigo
Just a small note here if I may. As far as I recall, Jesse Marcel Sr. was an intelligence officer - he had a need to know so he would have known anything and everything that's going on around there and perhaps more. These guys were the ones handling the atomic bomb, and at that time there was no higher secrecy or need to know than that.

Hi Amigo, I don’t know where you’re getting your information from but it doesn’t work that way. It doesn’t matter what kind of clearance you have, if you don’t have a need to know you won’t. That’s how secrets are kept. Project Mogul wasn’t even on the same base! They were flying the balloons from Alamogordo Army Air Field.

Originally posted by amigo
Furthermore, there was no compartmentalization or black budget secrecy, the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) that we know of was in its infancy (if around at all) - the big boys did not learn to cover their tracks and compartmentalize projects until much later on.

Really? Tell that to the THOUSANDS of people who worked on the Manhattan Project from 1941-1946. You do know what that was right? NOBODY knew they were working on making an Atomic Bomb until we dropped it on Japan!

[edit on 14-7-2007 by Access Denied]

Of course the show was chaotic. Larry King has never done a show on a particular UFO topic - it's always about the very simple question of "Do you believe in UFO's?" and then they shotgun the audience with a smattering of topics, but no real information at all.

Next time Stanton Friedman gets invited on Larry King, he should insist that the show be about ROSWELL... not Roswell and The Phoenix Lights and Whitley Strieber and Barney and Betty Hill and Kecksburg PA and O'Hare airport and Gulf Breeze Florida and the goddamn Tunguska explosion! Just Roswell.

Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by danx
He talked about scientific thinking and assertions.. how can he even say something like that?

Because that's how everybody described the debris at the time. Sorry, you can’t just rewrite history.

Also, Marcel Jr.'s description of the debris is remarkably consistent with the remnants of a Mogul balloon… only exaggerated in the way an 11 year old could appreciate. Sounds to me like his father was just pulling his leg.

Poor kid.

I'm no Roswell expert by any means, but from the things I've read, shows, interviews, etc., I only recall all the people saying "flying saucer" crashed, with little alien guys, some dead, some alive. I even recall a front page story about "UFO Crashes". Are you saying that Roswell is/was BS? Pardon me if I'm mis-understanding and you are being sarcastic, my bad. I myself tend to think Roswell one of the most facinating UFO incidents in history.

From what I understand, the descriptions of the debris given by Jesse Marcel himself match the Mogul equipment almost exactly: the radar reflector material, the flower-pattern balsa wood support beams, the microphone box, even the aluminum eyelets used to connect the equipment to the balloons. And remember, weather balloons were not top secret, but the Mogul equipment was very hush hush, and I doubt even an Air Force Major such as Marcel would have been aware of it.

Major Marcel never said the debris was from an alien spaceship, only that it was not a weather balloon. And if what he found was really a Mogul microphone array, that would make his statement correct, would it not?

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Flatwoods]

Absolutely correct, yes. Now... about those little green men....

We should all email Larry king on CNN about how much BS the show was.

Originally posted by Access Denied
I’d just like to point out that several posters here are saying Michael Shermer, Publisher of "Skeptic" magazine, was being rude and “kept interrupting everyone” but a review of the transcripts shows Stanton Friedman was the one who started it by interrupting Shermer and calling him names when it was Shermer's turn to talk…

transcripts.cnn.com...

Not as long as Stan has anything to say about it. No wonder all Shermer could do was smile.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by Access Denied]

Thats pathetic. Stan never interrupted him in the way Shermer did to everyone else. Shermer interrupted just about everyone and disrupted the show many time by being loud and obnoxious. You must be either blind, stupid, or Michael Shermer.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by Unplugged]

Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt
Absolutely correct, yes. Now... about those little green men....

Wait a minute, I thought they were grey!!???

Marcel never said anything about bodies and neither did the Rancher who found it or the newspapers. Those silly stories weren’t made up until more than 30 years later. That’s why the Storytellers had to invent a SECOND crash site. Of course then when the Storytellers found out Frank Kaufman was a FRAUD and forged documents and Glenn Dennis was full of ____ they had to go back to ONE crash site. Only problem is that didn’t account for all the Storytellers so now they’re saying there was THREE crash sites.

At this point you really should be asking yourself do I look that stupid?

Originally posted by Unplugged
You must be either blind, stupid, or Michael Shermer.

Are those my only choices? I do wear contacts.