Where do people on ATS stand on this?

I think aliens came down and seeded us, so that doesn't mix with either of your 2 theories. We were 'created' but mot by a God, or not a god as we know it. We've always been like one big laboratory experiment to them. That's what I believe, anyway.

BOTTOM LINE....EVERYTHING...and yes that means EVERYTHING, right down to atoms and all the science, all the alien life theories, blah blah, blah...had to come from something...stuff doesn't just POOF appear and start a chain reaction that has led us to BILLIONS of stars, our solar system, our planet, and more importantly HUMAN BEINGS! I for one am a believer in GOD and that we were created....and with that creation there is a form a science...so they can coexsist...but IMO, science doesn't cut it by itself.

Many ask, well then where did GOD come from?...hell of a question I sure don't have the answer to....I'll get back to you in hopefully 50-60 more years when I go and meet him and ask..lol...

Also for darwin fans...one thing never made sence to me.....you say we came from an animal (apes/ape family, some say other life forms) and over time that animal gradually became what is now known as modern day man. Then tell me this. Why are those same species/types still not evolving? If evolution was real, somewhere along the way it would be evident with our own eyes would it not, since EVOLUTION never stops. I guess the rest of the apes left over are happy eating bugs and having hair and living in jungles/zoos, etc...throwing around their own poop...rather then EVOLVE and drive a car, eat good food, join ATS....lol, etc etc....

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
Also for darwin fans...one thing never made sence to me.....you say we came from an animal (apes/ape family, some say other life forms) and over time that animal gradually became what is now known as modern day man. Then tell me this. Why are those same species/types still not evolving? If evolution was real, somewhere along the way it would be evident with our own eyes would it not, since EVOLUTION never stops. I guess the rest of the apes left over are happy eating bugs and having hair and living in jungles/zoos, etc...throwing around their own poop...rather then EVOLVE and drive a car, eat good food, join ATS....lol, etc etc....

We did not come from present day monkeys (There are a lot of different monkeys so you might want to specify what species you are talking about). Present day monkeys and us do share common ancestors.

Think about a distant cousin; you did not come from your cousin but both of you did come from the same people way back when.

And as long as we are on the subject of bible inconsistencies; do people believe Noah had two of every single species on earth?

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
BOTTOM LINE....EVERYTHING...and yes that means EVERYTHING, right down to atoms and all the science, all the alien life theories, blah blah, blah...had to come from something...stuff doesn't just POOF appear and start a chain reaction that has led us to BILLIONS of stars, our solar system, our planet, and more importantly HUMAN BEINGS! I for one am a believer in GOD and that we were created....and with that creation there is a form a science...so they can coexsist...but IMO, science doesn't cut it by itself.

hmmm next time you're in Physics class pay attention

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
Many ask, well then where did GOD come from?...hell of a question I sure don't have the answer to....I'll get back to you in hopefully 50-60 more years when I go and meet him and ask..lol...

thats a straw man argument as it requires the belief in a magical man in the sky who created everything on his own.
Edward Chiera said that "God created us in his image and we immediately returned the favour". In 50-60 more years you are going to be very dissapointed
the only religious belief that makes any sense according to physics is reincarnation. but you won't know what I mean because you weren't paying attention when your physics prof was talking about the difference between energy and matter were you

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
Also for darwin fans...one thing never made sence to me.....you say we came from an animal (apes/ape family, some say other life forms) and over time that animal gradually became what is now known as modern day man. Then tell me this. Why are those same species/types still not evolving? If evolution was real, somewhere along the way it would be evident with our own eyes would it not, since EVOLUTION never stops. I guess the rest of the apes left over are happy eating bugs and having hair and living in jungles/zoos, etc...throwing around their own poop...rather then EVOLVE and drive a car, eat good food, join ATS....lol, etc etc....

what are you talking about
the forerunners of our species are extinct
the main reason for this is that we were better equipped to survive than they were and we inhabited the same ecological niche. basically we out evolved them because they couldn't compete with us
we did not evolve from apes or chimpanzees as you seem to be claiming
humans and apes evolved from the same ancestor. Effectively we are cousins, linked by a common ancestor. we are not evolved from them and they are not our ancestors
you are also making the common mistake that believing that intelligence is a natural step of the evolutionary process
it isn't. as far as we know we are the only animal that has evolved intelligence as an evolutionary behaviour from the billions of creatures that have preceeded us.
which species do you consider is more likely to be around 1 million years from now
us with our large scale wars, nuclear weapons and biological and chemical warfare or the apes and their bananas

Originally posted by manimal
do people believe Noah had two of every single species on earth?

they seem perfectly happy to believe that one of Noahs sons was an asian
another was a native american
another was a negro
another was a white guy
all this from a semitic sailor
truly it is a miracle imo
its a miracle that some people are gullible enough to swallow any old rubbish that they are spoon fed because a book written by other human beings who lets face it knew less about just about everything than we do tells them to



[edit on 9-7-2007 by Marduk]

I think the "ATS stand" is to argue the same issue over and over and over, with no-one ever being convinced by anyone else's argument.

I don't think that anyone has managed to shoehorn a NWO conspiracy into the Creation Debate, but certainly Aliens have had a solid run.

I read once that the Iraq war was an attempt to regain the Garden of Eden, but nothing linking dinosaurs to 9/11. But it's only a matter of time.

I dont usually enter religious threads but, count me in for space dust- evolving into ocean- crawling on land- dna splicing from et's- moving towards next level soon...

The image of GOD is obviously not a physical image, since GOD is not physical

Originally posted by thesun
The image of GOD is obviously not a physical image, since GOD is not physical

no... god does have a physical image.... if you believe god does. let's say you're a christian, god the son is physical. let's say you just believe god is physical, for god could walk in the garden of eden. it all depends on how each person sees it, not on what the facts are, in religion

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
These two belief systems have been in a fight since the day the evolution theory was written down.

Actually they haven't.

The planet is more than 4 billion years old if you like it or not, there is mountains of evidence to prove it and none at all to prove it's 6 000 years old.

Also for darwin fans...one thing never made sence to me.....you say we came from an animal (apes/ape family, some say other life forms) and over time that animal gradually became what is now known as modern day man. Then tell me this. Why are those same species/types still not evolving? If evolution was real, somewhere along the way it would be evident with our own eyes would it not, since EVOLUTION never stops. I guess the rest of the apes left over are happy eating bugs and having hair and living in jungles/zoos, etc...throwing around their own poop...rather then EVOLVE and drive a car, eat good food, join ATS....lol, etc etc

You never bothered to even try to understand evolution did you? Because that's the typical "creationnist" question trying to ridicule evolution but only managing to wave their ignorance around...



[edit on 9-7-2007 by DarkSide]

First of all, to even reflect on a matter of a supernatural being "creating" our universe and boxing it into 1- narrow-minded corner of how us humans percieve things is ignorant and downright pretentious.

How about Hindus, taoist , Confuscian, Buddhist, Jainist, Sikh, and the enormous host of others viewpoints?

It seems all discussion here is limited to the narrow slit of Chistian /judaism/ Islamic views based on the respective area and beliefs taught to you as a child, in which... remember afterall, you also believed the boogeyman, Santa was in the mall, and hell... some even had Imaginary friends.

To even come to a rational objective theory or Hypothesis on a matter as such would require a much broader outlook and understanding. AFterall, the only reason many of you even worship "Yanweh" ,or the many other faces of the "three -pronged" monotheistic machine is based on the mere chance your parents were brought up with it.

I do not hold an answer.. but to say that ANY god based on your beliefs created the universe .. well, we are damned with him and dmaned without. Any passing look into the Bible, Qu'ran, or even the vedas can make any rational man not only realize that it is absurd, hence the constant questioning, but also morally deviant .

I do realize many of you like to rationalize and pick here and there... from these books the passages that look great, yet ignore the nasty blemishes. Just reflect on this.. how much evidence can you throw away from a book that rightly defines the existance of your belief , without realizing that You MUST do so to feel good about it? And would that also not make the foundation of that God/ Gods even more absurd if the evidence you base your beliefs on can be picked apart to such extent that it cannot even co-exist with the whole of ONE chapter... let alone the Entire book? It is like a house of cards taht has collapsed, but we look the other way as to somehow ignore the pain of knowing whatever resided within, is dead and buried.




[edit on 9-7-2007 by IamBoon]

I don't know which one to believe really but I will say that once something becomes extinct it doesn't find its way back here. So there had to be a day that the parent of all species was placed here. For that reason I lean towards creation but not necessarily the way the Bible describes it.

Originally posted by Marduk
In 50-60 more years you are going to be very dissapointed
the only religious belief that makes any sense according to physics is reincarnation. but you won't know what I mean because you weren't paying attention when your physics prof was talking about the difference between energy and matter were you

[edit on 9-7-2007 by Marduk]

Well I definitly didn't pay attention in physics..lol (no denying that)....i mean if physics says something like reincarnation is true then in my mind how reliable is physics? So we die, rot to the bone 6 feet under but come back as a different lifeform? But there is no GOD?

Also, I speak to many science/evolution theorists who also believe in ghosts. This to me REALLY makes no sence...so they agree there is an afterlife, but NO GOD?

And finally...Marduk..in 50-60 years if your right and when I pass then I won't be dissapointed...i'll just be dead! But what if when your time comes I was right........ you'll be in trouble..lol..

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
Well I definitly didn't pay attention in physics..lol (no denying that)....i mean if physics says something like reincarnation is true then in my mind how reliable is physics? So we die, rot to the bone 6 feet under but come back as a different lifeform? But there is no GOD?

What? Physics says no such thing.

Also, I speak to many science/evolution theorists who also believe in ghosts. This to me REALLY makes no sence...so they agree there is an afterlife, but NO GOD?

Why must there be a god if there's an afterlife? Neither has been proven to exist, so neither has to be associated with the other. There could be a God with no afterlife (as the Jews believe), or there may be an afterlife with no God. Or afterlife with god, or no afterlife and no god. They are all viable options with no one having more solid evidence than the other.

And finally...Marduk..in 50-60 years if your right and when I pass then I won't be dissapointed...i'll just be dead! But what if when your time comes I was right........ you'll be in trouble..lol..

Unless there's a completely different concept of God that you never heard of, and he sends you strait to his version of Hell because you didn't believe in him. It works both ways Jack.

I'll add that there could be a God, but it's very unlikely that it would be the Judeo-Christian version of God. It's as unlikely as it being the Greek Pantheon, or the Roman version. So, as far as creation v. evolution goes, we need to look at the facts that we know. We know we've found remnants of animals with an extremely similar skeletal structure to modern man. We know how old these remnants are, and we see a progression over time of them looking more and more like us. We see the same thing in countless species around the world. And we see it happening now, as we speak.

The whole "I ain't no Monkey" or "If we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys" arguments are so silly and ignorant that I refuse to argue with them BTW. It just shows that the person using the argument has no understanding of the opposing side, and I will have nothing to gain from it aside from a headache.

I don't see how species on this planet didn't have divine "help" Supernatural or otherwise. I never was able to believe in just evolution or just creation, partly b/c even the concept of creation requires evolution after the initial. At least that's how I've seen it...

I think the evolution you are referring to is Micro-Evolution. Micro Evolution happens and we see it happen, we see the result of it and we can see why it happens. Micro however does not lead to Macro.

And for those who think that no one can nail the exact date on Gods creation is correct. we cant say it was October 23rd 4004 B.C. we can however get it down to the year, give or take a few years.
God said in Genesis that the evening and the morning were THE first day. as far as I know there is only one "The First Days" in history, and that was the first day. Since that was the first day you add the ages of the fathers of each generation all the way up to Jesus Christ and do a little math and get roughly 6,000 years ago.

If God had already created the heaven and the earth why was it without form or void.

Ansrew: it simply wasnt done yet. Without form means without form, like a water has no form if its floating out there in space. and void simply means empty, God hasnt put anything in the earth yet. Gods 6 days of work is something for his people to follow. work 6 days and rest the 7th day to remember the Lord and keep him and his day holy. I have no problem with how long it took God to create everything, he can do it however he wants to. If God just said boom here is everything, im sure people would still come up with questions on why God didnt do it the way we know he did it, a 6 day creation. But the evolutionist have the much bigger problem, they believe that 20 billion years ago, nothing exploded and created everything. (very hard to believe btw)

Angels did not fall before or during creation, Lucifer had been in the Garden of Eden, the Garden of God until iniquity was found in him. God looked at everything when he was done and said it was all very good. it wouldnt make sense for God to say that if there was fallen angels and a devil running after Adam already.

6,000 years in Gods eyes can be 6 trillion years is what I am getting at. We are so naive to why we are here, what is out there and what we can obtain.

when God made the Sun moon and stars, he said that they were for signs for seasons, years and days. the verses in the bible you are referring to about a thousand years being as a day to God does not tell us that each day was a thousand years during creation. those verses are simply stating that God it outside of time, God it not limited by time. God does not age.

And also, GOD said he created man in the image of himself.
Never explained what "Himself" looked like did he!!??
GOD might look like a t-rex, or a tiny little single celled microb.
And hence the evolution theory isnt so unbelieveable now is it?? just mix the 2 together.

If God said that he made man in his image, im sure we look something like him, something like Jesus Christ. If God looked like a T-Rex im sure we would look a little more like a T-Rex.

I believe in an old universe and in evolutionary processes in the stars and on the planets.

stars dont form. they only explode. boils law goes against the formation of stars.

did God have genitals (when he had no use for them)? The question could be extended to other internal organs

God made man in his IMAGE, he created them male and female. so the answer it no, he does not have genitals. if we follow your logic, God should have the Genitals of both male and female. we are made in his image, not a God-like body.

I believe God created the universe, but it was many billions of "man" years ago

that puts death before sin and now you have a heresy.

People still believe in the adam and eve theory?

Lol only in America eh? People wonder why we don't want the yanks becoming the ruling body of the planet... jeez.

Originally posted by Methuselah

I believe in an old universe and in evolutionary processes in the stars and on the planets.

stars dont form. they only explode. boils law goes against the formation of stars.

How? Please explain in detail.

Boyle's Law states

PV = kT

where k is a constant, or

Pressure * Volume = Constant * Temperature

The value of the constant k depends on the units used for the other quantities but once the units are fixed, k is also fixed.

When any one of the quantities V, P, or T is changed, one or two of the others must change so that the equation above still holds.

^ this is Boyle's Law BTW.

I believe God created the universe, but it was many billions of "man" years ago

that puts death before sin and now you have a heresy.

Ah Heresy... The last ditch effort of an argument that can't win.

I believe that God created the universe, but like most people not in 6000 years or so. I mean someone had to create matter and encode the law of the universe. You can't have something out of nothing. But, I do believe after that he allowed things to be as it is so, however maybe with a couple of divine interventions along the way.

Science cannot prove an absolute origin of creation. Scientists first theorize the big bang, before the big bang, said created the membrane theory, and the list go on. Basically what I'm trying to say is science can only give us a relative origin of creation, and not an absolute one.

Does that mean science is wrong? Off course not, but I do think we are not scientifically advance enough to come to the conclusion that god does not exist, I mean we barely know what lurks around in our oceans, why swarms of animals such as bird or bats don't collide with each other when flying in a chaotic pattern. As a matter of a fact, we barely even understand ourselves, let alone say we understand the universe as a whole.

One thing though, people should keep in mind that theories are just theories, nothing more, one day, they will be replace.

Originally posted by skyblueff0
Does that mean science is wrong? Off course not, but I do think we are not scientifically advance enough to come to the conclusion that god does not exist,

This is a common problem though. It's not up to science to prove that God doesn't exist (not would it want to IMO). It's up to the believers to prove that God does exist. That is if their goal is to logically defend his existence. Faith is one thing, but we can't use logical fallacy to defend faith. Doing so would only undermine it's stance with those who think logically.

I did a SEARCH on "evolution creation" and I came up with a least 12 pages of this topic already dicussed to DEATH again - do a search and your answers are in there - easy peasy
Val