The truth about the Roswell Incident

why would you believe anything Brazels Junior says? this is the guy who changed his story from "no impact marks in the ground" to "huge gouge 50 feet long" in the space of 8 years.

Its so transparent he changed his story to try infer somehting much heavier & much more substantial crashed into the ground at great speed- But then that completely contradicts the mythical 2nd crash site theory... welcome to the world of roswell testimony

Incidently nobody else reports this only brazel junior.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
"that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo"

this is what i was talking about. The story changed in 1990 to ALL of the debris being switched before any photos at all- and thats not what Marcel said. The photo he's talking about is confirmed balloon debris thats why they changed the story.

No it isn't!

There are seven photos in the public domain, all seven show the same RAWIN Target. Marcel said one picture was taken of the actual debris, then the weather balloon was brought in and more pictures were taken. That would of course be the Seven pics in the public domain.

Folks, remember that Jesse Marcel, Sr. who was one of the first ones on the scene, was trained in radar school. THere just is no way that he wouldn't have recognized a weather balloon, radar target or even Project Mogul balloon. He says it was none of these. Alot of people were forced to lie to hang onto their jobs in the military.

Besides taht, it was RAMEY who sent out the "flying saucer" notice. He was then told afterwards to change the story to a weather balloon.

Also, the writing was not hieroglyphics or flowers. They were symbols, big differernce. Marcel Jr. remembers that part quite well.

Originally posted by Access Denied
No “higher power” ordered the "press release”! Haut did it on his own. He even said he might have but then he changed his story several times saying he couldn’t remember because it “wasn’t that big of a deal” at the time. Again, the base commander was on leave!

This is ridiculous! You don't even know what your talking about, or being disingenuous maybe?

Blanchard didn't go on leave until after lunch on the 8th! i.e. He was there on Base. Several people who knew Blanchard said that he told them how strange the stuff they found was including his ex-wife, and he told Author McQuiddy, friend and Editor of the Roswell Morning Dispatch, that he authorized the Press Release.

Originally posted by Access Denied
The article said it was on authority of Maj. Marcel but that can’t be confirmed because no copy of an “official” press release has ever been found. Haut says he “hand delivered” it and he’s never claimed Maj. Marcel authorized it even though that’s what it says in the paper.

Why not just admit that the one (and only) "Article" you consider GOLDEN is flawed.

About the Press Release. Author McQuiddy, from the OTHER Roswell Paper, said the military came and collected the Press Release.

Originally posted by Access Denied
The test dummy thing is a HUGE misunderstanding. NOBODY claimed there were alien bodies found in 1947 so where did they come from? The AIr Force sure as hell doesn't know! All the Air Force said is maybe the stories (folklore, rumor, whatever you want to call it) came from the later crash dummy tests and that’s why people said 30 years later they heard about bodies. Maybe they confused that with what happened in 1947. Get it? What’s so ridiculous about that? Sheesh...

That's not exactly correct. Completely independent of Roswell there are several sources that mention "Bodies". For instance in 1950 Frank Scully wrote about the rumors that the Military had recovered THREE "Disks" two with 'Bodies'. You'll never guess where, according to Scully's Book, this happened?

Another source is here in a memo to Hoover.
foia.fbi.gov...





[edit on 5-7-2007 by lost_shaman]

This is good stuff. AD had a awesome post. The only time I have read a long post and it was worth it. Common sense and truth are hard to come by anymore. Live in NM and you will soon realize the joke that is Roswell. Las Cruces, Ruidoso.....They all see Roswell as nuts and trailer trash. Take a trip out there for yourself if ya dont believe me. As a side note one trip to the airport in Roswell and you will be convinced Polar Air Cargo is a better story than aliens..WTF they are doing out there is beyond me.

TX..are you trying to imply that all of the people of Roswell and the surrounding area were nutso or trailer trash coming up with lies, fables or stories to get on the map or something? Now I have seen "The Hills Have Eyes" but not for a minute do i 'think' that the people there in that part of NM are on some kind of nuclear fallout trip out to eat passers through... Seriously, dont assume just b/c you can associate to way people are there today the same way they were in a past generation. Or there would be many more stories like such made up from "trailer park" all over america and make it to the front page... take it easy on your fellow NM'ers..

Note that nothing was done to base Commander Col. Wm H. Blanchard as a result of this apparent 'faux pas'. In fact Colonel Blanchard would later go on to become a four-star general and Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.

That should tell you something from the military point of view.

I myself go back and forth on this issue. And the things I've seen make me give it 56 % that it was other worldly craft with bodies. I mean look at how the government behaves! Our current president is nuts on Iraq!! At first I was all in with Bush, NOW I'm pissed off all the time with him!! (kick ass or get the hell out you moron!!!)

Look, I saw some strange things in the sky many times b4 I was in the Navy, and up until recently..things that almost drive me koo koo.

The government lies. It hides stuff. It is a power eater. It is run by folks that can put the scare in folks that will make them crap their pants. I think that we have (for along time) other worldly creatures visiting us ( or time/dimension beings) its either that or everybody that reports these things or tells the truth as they know are 100% wrong.

Happy Project Mogul day everybody!!!

Jesse Marcel is a proven liar everybody

Claim: Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB.

fact: he was never a pilot.

Claim: Jesse Marcel claimed to shoot down five enemy aircraft!

Fact:he was never a pilot.

Claim: had a bachelor's degree in physics

Fact: he never finished classes

Colonel Thomas J. DuBose, who later retired as a brigadier general, was present when the wreckage was brought into Ramey's office. There's no disputing this fact, because DuBose met the B-29 personally when it arrived at Carswell AFB (Fort Worth) from Roswell carrying the debris that Marcel had collected.

DuBose not only greeted the incoming plane, but hand carried the wreckage remnants in a sealed canvas mail pouch, immediately escorting it to Ramey's office.

In a revealing interview, DuBose puts to rest the "mystery" of the so-called substituted wreckage and exposes it for what it is -- another Major Marcel myth. DuBose's comments have never appeared before in any book on Roswell.

Q: There are two researchers (Schmitt and Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey's office had been switched and that you men had a weather balloon there in its place.

A: Oh Bull! That material was never switched!

Q: So what you're saying is that the material in General Ramey's office was the actual debris brought in from Roswell?

A: That's absolutely right.

In a second and a third, final interview, DuBose repeated his assertions that no wreckage substitution had taken place. More important, by the time of the third interview, DuBose had looked at the photos of the recovered debris taken at that time by J. Bond Johnson. DuBose recognized the material in the photos.

Q: Did you get a chance to read the material and look at the pictures?

A: Yes, and I studied the pictures very carefully.

Q: Do you recognize that material?

A: Oh yes. That's the material that Marcel brought into Fort Worth from Roswell.

Originally posted by youngskeptic

Colonel Thomas J. DuBose, who later retired as a brigadier general, was present when the wreckage was brought into Ramey's office. There's no disputing this fact, because DuBose met the B-29 personally when it arrived at Carswell AFB (Fort Worth) from Roswell carrying the debris that Marcel had collected.

DuBose not only greeted the incoming plane, but hand carried the wreckage remnants in a sealed canvas mail pouch, immediately escorting it to Ramey's office.

In a revealing interview, DuBose puts to rest the "mystery" of the so-called substituted wreckage and exposes it for what it is -- another Major Marcel myth. DuBose's comments have never appeared before in any book on Roswell.

Q: There are two researchers (Schmitt and Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey's office had been switched and that you men had a weather balloon there in its place.

A: Oh Bull! That material was never switched!

Q: So what you're saying is that the material in General Ramey's office was the actual debris brought in from Roswell?

A: That's absolutely right.

In a second and a third, final interview, DuBose repeated his assertions that no wreckage substitution had taken place. More important, by the time of the third interview, DuBose had looked at the photos of the recovered debris taken at that time by J. Bond Johnson. DuBose recognized the material in the photos.

Q: Did you get a chance to read the material and look at the pictures?

A: Yes, and I studied the pictures very carefully.

Q: Do you recognize that material?

A: Oh yes. That's the material that Marcel brought into Fort Worth from Roswell.

Really, well look what DuBose writes in his sworn affidavit.

"The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

Originally posted by lost_shaman
Really, well look what DuBose writes in his sworn affidavit.

"The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

LS you really should do some research before you post. If you had you would know that the material in that affidavit was recalled under hypnosis by Don Schmitt and Stan Friedman in 1990 when Dubose was 90 years old and they never even bothered to show him the photographs!

The quotes YS posted were from interviews Jamie Shandera conducted with Dubose AFTER Stan’s hypnosis/affidavit snow job (the same con they pulled on most of the other “witnesses”) and Dubose was shown the actual photographs!

BTW I haven’t responded to all the mistakes you made in your other posts yet because I didn’t want to embarrass you.

Reading through this thread I didn't see any mention of the 2002 Walter Haut Affidavit. In it Haut in an affidavit signed and witnessed before he died says that he was the information officer that issued the report to the press. That it was a saucer crash with live and dead bodies. That there were actually 2 crashes. And that the balloon story was a coverup. The affidavit has been out for several weeks, has been scrutinized and seems believable.

Hi plumranch, that might be because it's already been covered in two other threads here on ATS recently.

Originally posted by Access Denied

LS you really should do some research before you post. If you had you would know that the material in that affidavit was recalled under hypnosis by Don Schmitt and Stan Friedman in 1990 when Dubose was 90 years old and they never even bothered to show him the photographs!

The quotes YS posted were from interviews Jamie Shandera conducted with Dubose AFTER Stan’s hypnosis/affidavit snow job (the same con they pulled on most of the other “witnesses”) and Dubose was shown the actual photographs!

If you bothered to do some research yourself AD, you'd find that DuBose made this clear on several occasions that had nothing to do with Friedman or hyponosis!

"There was a host of people descending on our headquarters seeking information from Ramey, badgering him for information we didn't have. I didn't know what it was. Blanchard didn't know. Ramey didn't know... McMullen said, Look, why don't you come up with something, anything you can use to get the press off our back? So we came up with this weather balloon story. Somebody got one and we ran it up a couple of hundred feet and dropped it to make it look like it crashed, and that's what we used." - Dubose from Florida Today, 11/24/91

Originally posted by lost_shaman
If you bothered to do some research yourself AD, you'd find that DuBose made this clear on several occasions that had nothing to do with Friedman or hyponosis!

LS practically everything (if not all) you post is from David Rudiak’s web site, you call that research? Why doesn’t Ruidiak have the conflicting statements Dubose made to Shandera that debunks his testimony? I’ll tell you why, because Rudiak doesn’t have a case and he knows it but he doesn’t want anybody else to!

P.S. I hate to be the one to break it to you but DuBose was simply covering for Mogul. The easiest way to get somebody that’s asking too many questions off your back who won’t take no for an answer (like most UFO “researchers”) is to tell them what they want to hear and they’ll run with it. Nobody’s going to go to Leavenworth for revealing a “secret” that doesn’t exist!

Have a nice day!

Originally posted by Access Denied
LS practically everything (if not all) you post is from David Rudiak’s web site, you call that research?

That's ridiculous! You know that.

Originally posted by Access Denied
P.S. I hate to be the one to break it to you but DuBose was simply covering for Mogul. The easiest way to get somebody that’s asking too many questions off your back who won’t take no for an answer (like most UFO “researchers”) is to tell them what they want to hear and they’ll run with it. Nobody’s going to go to Leavenworth for revealing a “secret” that doesn’t exist!

Of course you think that because what DuBose actually said completely contradicts your conclusion.

Note that what DuBose said is consistent with the photos as I pointed out, there was a Radar station just down the street from Ramey's Office that had brand new RAWIN Targets and Neoprenes that are exactly the same as what we see in the photos.

Something keeps giving me a big problem with anyone mistaking a boring 40's balloon w/whatever hanging on as something special, excluding not on the use with heavy meds is just not right.
Something freaked out the pros on that base so long ago. A nasty plane crash...but not the goofy balloon story. Then the AF story with test dummies, and the years don't even match up. We must be morons and hide behind the flag. That worked in '47 but we know how things work now.
So many old men coming out, children stories, all outright lies?
Something bad happened that night. A nasty crash, a saucer, whatever...most smell coverup. Whats worse, no trust in the man anymore, and maybe even worse, the feeling in no trust in us.
Many talk of disclosure on this site, and feel Roswell would be a great start, but will never, ever happen. Too many lies, too much money, greed...its like you can take it when you die...

i think alot of die-hard roswelians ignore the reality of the world they are living in. Where is the alien tech? we could do with some super flying saucers in iraq right now. Billions of dollars spent on conventional propulsion fighter jets, nasa rockets, not a hint of super anti-grav FTL travel.

you would think by now we would see the results of alien technology

[edit on 7-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
Where is the alien tech? you would think by now we would see the results of alien technology
[edit on 7-7-2007 by yeti101]

Well, no.

On what basis do you conclude that it will take less than 60 years to reverse engineer alien technology and to be able to reproduce it?

You can't use that argument, as your speculative question is fundamentally flawed with the assumption that we should be able to understand technology that would be completely alien in nature.

If there was alien technology recovered at Roswell, then quite possibly, we may never understand how it works, despite the best minds on Earth working to unlock the secrets.