LIVE loud explosion heard by firefighters at WTC site - AMAZING!!

Bezerk,

you asked me to prove you wrong on the funding. Done deal... No biggie!

I do, however agree with you with how the government has spent their money in the past. (and present) Bush also gave 50 million to the Space Shuttle Columbia investigation. (less than a month after the accident)

IMO...Bush is an idiot and not worthy as president. If 911 was investigated instantly..it wold have just backed up my statement even further.

Please let me answer one point at a time... try not to move the goal posts on me ok?

Originally posted by BeZerk
Oh thats right the compressed air theory is like the theory of the tooth fairy giving you a shiney gold coin when in the process of taking your tooth from under your pillow

Good one... How does compressed air travel through the elevator smashing out windows 70+ floors below the collapse. If that is what your saying then your level of intellect really does not surprise me.

Well..let me attempt to shed a little light on my opinion to the Squibs. (and NO anok..I refuse your challange since you are unable to prove your hypothisis.)

IF you actually look at the "squib" closely, you can see that the explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They eject out and then increase with time. An explosive typically works the other way around. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time. As the collapse zone gets close, you can clearly see the squib increasing. Don't quote me, but i believe the WTC towers were over 90% air! It was an office building.

The air was felt very strongly:

Matt Komorowski: “The first thing I really felt was the incredible rush of air at my back. And maybe I felt it before everybody else, because I was the last guy.”
Stone Phillips: “Like a gust of wind, behind you.”
Matt Komorowski: “Gust of wind. Wind tunnel. It was the most incredible push at your back, that you can feel.”

www.acfd.com...

LIM: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and faster as they get closer. What I remember the most was the wind. It created almost like a hurricane-type force and actually pushed one of the firemen right by me.

MIKE MELDRUM, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: I was flown down a flight of stairs, a little groggy for a while. I noticed somebody on a half landing just up from me, a few stairs and I thought it was one of our guys and it was David Lim.

transcripts.cnn.com...

Originally posted by BeZerk
Basement explosions were fireballs

Ok so the fireball managed to go down the elevator shafts retaining its energy to blow out the basement someone 100+ floors below the impact area....

Here are some facts and interviews from survivors of the WTC impacts/collapses.

First of all NIST reports that:

Of the evacuees interviewed by NIST, 72% reported the smell of fuel fumes in the stairwells of the north tower, and 63% in the south tower.

(NIST NCSTAR 1-7A p. 17)


Noth Tower:

"I saw the elevator in front of me had flames coming out of it. The elevator was closed but the flames came from the front where the doors meet and on the sides...I saw a chandelier shaking; it was really moving...black smoke started filling the corridor, it got really dense fast." And a survivor in the basement of the North Tower at the time of the attack recalled, "I saw a big bright orange color coming through the basement with the smoke...A fireball came shooting out the basement door."

www.amazon.com...

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.....What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.
And apparently from what I talked to with other mechanics, they saw the doors, the hatch doors blow off in the lobby level of 6 and 7 car.

archive.recordonline.com...

That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint.

www.firehouse.com...

She had been standing outside the north tower next to a man she knew, waiting for a bus, when she heard a loud crash above. In an effort to protect them from falling debris, a security guard herded everyone inside the tower's lobby. Suddenly, she told Ronnie, something bright and hot enveloped her, a vapour maybe. She thought it could have dropped down the elevator shaft. She was worried about the man who'd been next to her. Surely he was dead, she feared.

“He thought he was the lucky one, but then tragedy struck” Irish Independent, Sept. 11, 2002. (The above is an excerpt. Ronnie Clifford was able to get Jennieann Maffeo to an ambulance. She died in the hospital on October 12, 2001.)

www.unison.ie...

(Vasana) Mutuanot was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. "It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said.

www.chron.com...

“I saw a couple of elevators in free fall; you could hear them whizzing down and as they crashed, there was this huge explosion, like a fireball exploding out of the bank of elevators,” Kravette said. “People were engulfed in flames.”

www.engr.psu.edu...

Firefighter Terence Rivera: As I got off the back -- the back step, there were a few individuals that were civilians that were outside that were burnt. There was a -- he wasn't a regular security guard. He had a weapon on him. I don't know if he was FBI or Secret Service and he was trying to put the pants out on one individual that was conscious. His pants were still smoldering. I took the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and then sprayed down the pants on the person that was still conscious.

At that time, I had asked him where did this individual come from. He told me when the plane had hit, a fire ball had shot down the elevator shaft and had blown people out of the lobby.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

Well..let me attempt to shed a little light on my opinion to the Squibs. (and NO anok..I refuse your challange since you are unable to prove your hypothisis.)

IF you actually look at the "squib" closely, you can see that the explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They eject out and then increase with time. An explosive typically works the other way around. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time. As the collapse zone gets close, you can clearly see the squib increasing. Don't quote me, but i believe the WTC towers were over 90% air! It was an office building.

You have pointed at 1 or 2 people that claim NOTHING in relation to squibs being compressed air. I don't know whether you have ever seen a bomb exploded there is generally a strong gush of wind, which could have had the same effect.

The air was felt very strongly:

Matt Komorowski: “The first thing I really felt was the incredible rush of air at my back. And maybe I felt it before everybody else, because I was the last guy.”
Stone Phillips: “Like a gust of wind, behind you.”
Matt Komorowski: “Gust of wind. Wind tunnel. It was the most incredible push at your back, that you can feel.”

www.acfd.com...

For a starters your link does not work, but lets continue the rush of air could of been from a bomb exploded from floors above him, this could have been the energy it needed to push wind down the elevator shafts thus the wind tunnel.

LIM: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and faster as they get closer. What I remember the most was the wind. It created almost like a hurricane-type force and actually pushed one of the firemen right by me.

MIKE MELDRUM, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: I was flown down a flight of stairs, a little groggy for a while. I noticed somebody on a half landing just up from me, a few stairs and I thought it was one of our guys and it was David Lim.

transcripts.cnn.com...


Key words: BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM....WIND......as stated above boom boom boom is referred to as being explosions not WIND.... wind does not make a explosive effect for someone to say BOOM BOOM BOOM.....

BeZerK

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

Here are some facts and interviews from survivors of the WTC impacts/collapses.

First of all NIST reports that:

Of the evacuees interviewed by NIST, 72% reported the smell of fuel fumes in the stairwells of the north tower, and 63% in the south tower.

(NIST NCSTAR 1-7A p. 17)

Could you please show me the transcripts of the 72% NIST interviewed of people reporting the smell of fuel?

Noth Tower:

"I saw the elevator in front of me had flames coming out of it. The elevator was closed but the flames came from the front where the doors meet and on the sides...I saw a chandelier shaking; it was really moving...black smoke started filling the corridor, it got really dense fast." And a survivor in the basement of the North Tower at the time of the attack recalled, "I saw a big bright orange color coming through the basement with the smoke...A fireball came shooting out the basement door."

www.amazon.com...

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.....What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.
And apparently from what I talked to with other mechanics, they saw the doors, the hatch doors blow off in the lobby level of 6 and 7 car.

archive.recordonline.com...

That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint.

www.firehouse.com...

She had been standing outside the north tower next to a man she knew, waiting for a bus, when she heard a loud crash above. In an effort to protect them from falling debris, a security guard herded everyone inside the tower's lobby. Suddenly, she told Ronnie, something bright and hot enveloped her, a vapour maybe. She thought it could have dropped down the elevator shaft. She was worried about the man who'd been next to her. Surely he was dead, she feared.

“He thought he was the lucky one, but then tragedy struck” Irish Independent, Sept. 11, 2002. (The above is an excerpt. Ronnie Clifford was able to get Jennieann Maffeo to an ambulance. She died in the hospital on October 12, 2001.)

www.unison.ie...

(Vasana) Mutuanot was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. "It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said.

www.chron.com...

“I saw a couple of elevators in free fall; you could hear them whizzing down and as they crashed, there was this huge explosion, like a fireball exploding out of the bank of elevators,” Kravette said. “People were engulfed in flames.”

www.engr.psu.edu...

Firefighter Terence Rivera: As I got off the back -- the back step, there were a few individuals that were civilians that were outside that were burnt. There was a -- he wasn't a regular security guard. He had a weapon on him. I don't know if he was FBI or Secret Service and he was trying to put the pants out on one individual that was conscious. His pants were still smoldering. I took the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and then sprayed down the pants on the person that was still conscious.

At that time, I had asked him where did this individual come from. He told me when the plane had hit, a fire ball had shot down the elevator shaft and had blown people out of the lobby.

graphics8.nytimes.com...


None of the people above mention the smell of jet fuel. They state nearly in every one of the above that they heard an explosion or it was like a bomb.

Once again the fireball could have come from an explosion within the basement and shot up through the elevators...Think logically here, how is is fundamentally possible for fire to retain its energy to come down 90+ floors below the impact, knocking out marble panels and windows not to mention ripping off a persons skin from within the basement

BeZerK

Originally posted by BeZerk
You have pointed at 1 or 2 people that claim NOTHING in relation to squibs being compressed air. I don't know whether you have ever seen a bomb exploded there is generally a strong gush of wind, which could have had the same effect.

No, thats not accurate. I have seen bombs explode..they start off STRONG..then taper off. Obviously the squibs in the WTC act exactly the opposite.

Originally posted by BeZerk
For a starters your link does not work, but lets continue the rush of air could of been from a bomb exploded from floors above him, this could have been the energy it needed to push wind down the elevator shafts thus the wind tunnel.

Key words: BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM....WIND......as stated above boom boom boom is referred to as being explosions not WIND.... wind does not make a explosive effect for someone to say BOOM BOOM BOOM.....

BeZerK

No...thats not true. BOOM BOOM BOOM was the floors collapsing on top of each other causing the wind.

I look forward to your comments on my other posts.

CaptainObvious,

Indeed the funding for the investigation for NIST was very little compared to others.

Sorry but the $3 million investigation was for the 9/11 Commission, that is all it received.

Either way it is way to minimal in funding for a full and thorough investigation to occur do you agree?

Know one is shifting the goal posts im merely replying back to your posts.

BeZerK

CaptainObvious,

No, thats not accurate. I have seen bombs explode..they start off STRONG..then taper off. Obviously the squibs in the WTC act exactly the opposite.

Its quite obvious that conventional explosives would not have been used. I'm sure the people who placed the explosives did not use conventional explosives that would arise suspicion. I have seen bombs explode that hit its impact then a huge gush of wind so powerful that knocks out windows from nearby houses etc..... Different explosives act in different ways. Open your mind and you will realize that conventional explosives would not have been used its as simple as that.

No...thats not true. BOOM BOOM BOOM was the floors collapsing on top of each other causing the wind.

I look forward to your comments on my other posts.

or BOOM BOOM BOOM could be explosives blasting the core columns for the floors to collapse

As stated your first link does not work

BeZerK

Originally posted by BeZerk

Could you please show me the transcripts of the 72% NIST interviewed of people reporting the smell of fuel?

You are kidding right? I got the stat from NIST. You can search deeper for that. (if it indeed exists)

Originally posted by BeZerk
None of the people above mention the smell of jet fuel. They state nearly in every one of the above that they heard an explosion or it was like a bomb.
Once again the fireball could have come from an explosion within the basement and shot up through the elevators...Think logically here, how is is fundamentally possible for fire to retain its energy to come down 90+ floors below the impact, knocking out marble panels and windows not to mention ripping off a persons skin from within the basement

BeZerK

Tim Pearson, NYPD (After ST collapse): As we’re going down, I can see the floor had collapsed. The south tower had collapsed the south side of the north tower. And I see nothing but fire all along there. It’s all fire down in the basement concourse, too, where we went in with the swinging doors, where they’ll take you out of the plaza. ...Eventually we make a right and go through the middle of the elevator banks, but on the other side of the banks is a big, open area filled with debris and fire. Now I can see, and obviously smell, the jet fuel that had come down the elevator shaft and that was all over the floor."

(Smith, Dennis. Report From Ground Zero. New York: Viking Penguin, 2002. p. 137)

S. Alexander: My normal commute involves taking the PATH train from New Jersey to WTC in New York. I reached WTC around 8:57 am and as soon as the doors opened we were engulfed by some chemical that smelled like kerosene and smoke. Not realizing what had happened I walked up the escalator to the ground floor of the WTC where Police officers were directing all commuters to leave the building as soon as possible. Emerging outside of WTC, it looked like a bomb had exploded because there was debris everywhere, paper, fibre-glass insulation and numerous other office stationary material. In my mind I recalled the bombing from 1993 and thought this was something very similar.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Basement: level unknown
A survivor in the basement: “I saw a big bright orange color coming through the basement with the smoke ... A fire ball came shooting out of the basement door.”

Interview 100760 (NIST 2004) wtc.nist.gov...

Level B-6:
Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion. They had been told to stay where they were and "sit tight" until the Assistant Chief got back to them. By this time, however, the room they were working in began to fill with a white smoke. "We smelled kerosene," Mike recalled, "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs", referring to the parking garage located below grade in the tower but above the deep space where they were working.

www.chiefengineer.org...

Unknown location:
I even heard some radio transmissions about fire in the elevator shafts from the jet fuel. –FDNY Captain Charles Clarke

graphics8.nytimes.com...

Unknown location:
9:12: WTC Police Desk radios PO Lim/K-9 asking if that is the smell of jet fuel. PO Lim/K-9 replies, "That's burning jet fuel."

www.thememoryhole.org... pg. 6

The only survivor known to have escaped from the heart of the impact zone [Stanley Praimnath] described the 81st floor-where the wing of the plane had sliced through his office-as a "demolition" site in which everything was "broken up" and the smell of jet fuel was so strong that it was almost impossible to breathe. This person escaped by means of an unlikely rescue, aided by a civilian fire warden descending from a higher floor [Brian Clark], who, critically, had been provided with a flashlight.

– 9/11 Commission Report, Chapter 9

74th floor
"...I sat down with this guy who became my "buddy." Tim's story was that he was on the 86th floor of the second tower, when the plane hit the first tower. They started to evacuate, but after going down a dozen flights they were instructed that it was only the first tower that had been hit and that they could go back. So he was opening the door on the 74th floor at the exact moment that the second plane crashed into the 74th floor. He actually saw the wing before the explosion. He was splashed with jet fuel, but the explosion blew him back into the stairwell, saving his life. With other people helping him, because he was blinded by the jet fuel, he ran down 74 flights of stairs. A medic was lavaging his eyes when the first building fell.

www.episcopal-dso.org...

Dittmar later would learn that a plane also had crashed into the south tower.
"We immediately smelled the jet fuel," Dittmar said. "And we felt one ball of heat, one ball of heat that just went blowing by us faster than I could say it."

www.wtceskp.com...

Originally posted by BeZerk
Its quite obvious that conventional explosives would not have been used. I'm sure the people who placed the explosives did not use conventional explosives that would arise suspicion. I have seen bombs explode that hit its impact then a huge gush of wind so powerful that knocks out windows from nearby houses etc..... Different explosives act in different ways. Open your mind and you will realize that conventional explosives would not have been used its as simple as that.

That huge gush of wind does not increase from the point of detonation. The gush of wind is that of the shock wave. This too disipates the further you get away from it.

Now you are stating unconventional explosives...tell me what ones. Tell me how they work. You are moving the goal posts again after I give you my explanations.

Originally posted by BeZerk

As stated your first link does not work

BeZerK

Not sure why...I cant even get on their website anymore. Please feel free to disregard that post.

Originally posted by BeZerk
Sorry but the $3 million investigation was for the 9/11 Commission, that is all it received.

Not too get all over you. 3 million was the original budget. ( a joke)
More funding was allowed after pressure from Dems and victims families.

Public Law 107-306 provided for the reprogramming of $3 million for the Commission. Congress subsequently appropriated, and the President signed into law, an additional $11 million appropriation for the Commission. Recent legislation authorized an additional $1 million, bringing the Commission’s total budget to $15 million.
The Commission is confident that it can fulfill its mandate with this amount. We appreciate very much the support of Congress and the President for this level of funding.

www.9-11commission.gov...

Originally quoted by CaptainObvious

I have seen bombs explode..they start off STRONG..then taper off. Obviously the squibs in the WTC act exactly the opposite.

(later post)

That huge gush of wind does not increase from the point of detonation. The gush of wind is that of the shock wave. This too disipates the further you get away from it.

By your logic, which is fundamentally correct, the destruction in the basement and lobby areas could not occur from impacts and jet fuel coming from 70-odd floors above.

Witness testimony and simple logic, which you exhibited above in other contexts, tell us that there were bombs in the basements that went off concurrently with the jet impacts.

You can't apply physics selectively, no matter the number of incidental quotes marshaled to deflect.

[typos]


[edit on 7-7-2007 by gottago]

Physics? What about sence of smell?sight? hearing? Please explain to me how the jet fuel could not have spilled down the elevator shafts? There would be many signifigant ignition points along the way to ignite.

Firefighters reported Jet Fuel fires in the elevator pits. This is not Physics, it is gravity.

Flight 11 had approx. 10,000 gallons of jet fuet. It was estimated by NIST that well over 1/2 of this was NOT ignited in the original fireball. That leaves approx. 5K gallons of fuel that either caught on fire at the impact floors, or cascaded into the elevator shafts.

IF you have ever seen a 55 gallon drum.... it would take about 91 of these to hold the estimated jet fuel that was not ignited. Thats a lot of fuel!

Please, if you can, explain to me how physics states this can not happen.

Thank you.



[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link






[edit on 7-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

The nature of the construction of the towers is a good place to start.

From firechief.com:

The major obstacle for Yamasaki was the sheer volume of floor space needed for the elevator shafts in a building of this height. A traditional elevator configuration for this kind of building would require the use of half the total floor space on the lower floors just for elevator shafts. Using this amount of space would render construction costs too expensive in relation to the available office space. The solution was to treat each tower as three separate 40-story structures. In this system, passengers would travel up the elevators and change at sky lobbies located on the 44th and 78th floors. This new design cut the number of required elevator shafts in a conventional system by half.

Most of the jet fuel you claim was cascading down those elevator shafts, assuming NIST's calculations are at all viable--and I'd like to know by what mechanism the conflagration managed to preserve half the kerosene unconsumed and NIST managed to arrive at that figure--would have reached no farther than the upper sky lobby, as most elevator shafts in the upper building went no farther than this before being capped for fire protection and the above-cited stacking. A smaller fraction may have made it to the lower skylobby. A fraction of that to the basement, if at all.

Throw the construction around the core into the mix and that is good ol' Magic Jet Fuel (tm).

If each elevator in the vertical transportation system of the tower buildings had to be located in separate hoistways, excessive floor space in the structures would be devoted to hoistways alone. By using the sky lobby principle, however, space is saved since “shuttle-express” elevators (10,000 pounds, or 4,500 kilograms, at 1,600 feet per minute, or 8 meters per second) will speed passengers to sky lobbies on the 44th and 78th floors, while local elevators will operate using a sky lobby as their lower terminal, enabling the “stacking” of the local elevators one above another in a common hoistway. To further facilitate traffic at the sky lobby on the 44th and 78th floors escalators will provide two-way service between the floors immediately above and below. In addition to normal freight service one freight elevator in each of the towers will serve a total of 112 stops from the fifth basement to the 108th floor. It will rise 1,387 feet (422.8 meters) – 400 feet (122 meters) more than the former record rise in the Empire State Building. Ten elevators swill travel from street level to five basement levels below the plaza.

Also:

Each tower had only two passenger elevators that went non-stop from bottom to top — to the Windows on the World restaurant in the north tower and the observation deck in the south tower.

The local elevators were stacked on top of each other sharing same shafts
in addition there were passenger and freight elevators which ran from
basement to top (108 floor)

Looks like there was path from roof to basement

The North tower - which took direct hit in center of building is where the
jet fuel poured down shafts. There were many burn victims in North
tower lobby from jet fuel. In addition several people in street outside
were caught in fireball

Thedman,

that is accurate. There were also fires reported on skylobby floors where the elevator shafts ended on the upper floors.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
That huge gush of wind does not increase from the point of detonation. The gush of wind is that of the shock wave. This too disipates the further you get away from it.

I understand what your saying CO, but what im trying to say is that the fireball could have easily come from explosives of some sort.

Now you are stating unconventional explosives...tell me what ones. Tell me how they work. You are moving the goal posts again after I give you my explanations.

Well of course i would not know what kind of explosives being used but certain theories point in the direction of some kind of Thermate reaction, im sure this has been covered off numerous times. Also the micro nuke thread has some interesting theories as well. Obviously we may never know the true nature of the beast but what we do know is some kind of explosives were used within that building.

Not too get all over you. 3 million was the original budget. ( a joke)
More funding was allowed after pressure from Dems and victims families.

Even $15 million is a joke, and would not allow a thorough investigation into the whole events that occured on 9/11, thats just ridiculous.

Moreover, the 9/11 Commission itself is a joke. Bush and Cheney did not even testify under oath nor was there session ever recorded. Why? What did they have to hide?

You are kidding right? I got the stat from NIST. You can search deeper for that. (if it indeed exists)

Indeed if it does exist

I still fail to see how jet fuel caught on fire can retain enough energy to blow out the basement and rip marble panels within the Lobby, especially when the designers of the building actually designed the building to not only withstand the plane crash but also the ensuing fires that may have occurred due to jet fuel.

John Skilling - Structural Engineer - WTC -

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there.

BeZerK

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
(and NO anok..I refuse your challange since you are unable to prove your hypothisis.)

LOL you really don't get it do you?

Visual examination of the videos is enough, but NIST ignores it and so do all the de-bunkers.

There is nothing to prove, you can see it clearly in the video's but you just refuse to see what is really there right in front of you.

What I want is an explanation of how it happened, that's all. The laws of physics have already been proved, and if you can't see where the 3 buildings ignored a few of them then you need to go back to school.

Again another de-bunker dancing around the issues they have no explanation for...

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there.

Problem was that jet fuel ignited other combustibles - modern office
buildings are virtual fire traps. Most of the furniture and equipment are
synthethic (aka plastic) which are derived from petroleum. Burn with
some 50 to 100% more heat per pound than organics. When WTC were
designed in mid 1960's did not have fire load present in 2001. Most of
the furniture would have been metal or wood. Add to this tons and tons
of paper which fueled fires. Buildings like WTC were originly classified as
"fireproof" by designers - while building structure would not burn almost
everything else inside would. The so called "fireproof" tag was changed to
"fire resistive". Firefighters and safety people have for years fought
against real estate interests (and lost) when came to upgrading building
codes.

Originally posted by ANOK
Again another de-bunker dancing around the issues they have no explanation for...

This discussion is about fireballs ANOK...as usual you are attempting to hijack a thread with your pathetic posts.

I proved that there were fireballs my multiple eyewitness testimony, NIST investigations, FDNY testimony, and the majority of survivors stated they smelled kerosene or jet fuel (from both towers)

You have NOTHING to prove that the fireballs that were witnessed by MANY were not what the witnesses stated they were.

IF you have something to add to this thread that can counter what I have stated with an abundance of evidence, please feel free to add to it.

If not, kindly back off and let the mature people debate the facts. As you can see most of us in here are doing a pretty good job at it.

EDIT TO ADD... Anok, the challange you posted was that of the squibs. Ok..sorry..i had to go further back.. Ok. Please point out to me any explosive that works in reverse... that is starts off weak, then gets stronger. Because thats what these squib in fact do.

Talk about someone dancing!

[edit on 8-7-2007 by CaptainObvious]