Suicide...For a Reason?

Originally posted by lilblam
Why don't they teach the American Constitution in school? And not just a little bit in some class, I mean STUDY it intensively? Don't kids deserve to know at least what the "founding fathers" wanted to base this country on? Because as the Bush Reich continues to eliminate your freedoms, the kids don't even know they HAD most of those freedoms. Now that's the scary part

Lilblam.......FYI
There are 10 schools in the USA right now, experimental in nature....called First Amendment Schools.........they are teaching the REAL constitution...they focus alot on civil liberties and human rights. They focus on equallity of ALL people, and using freedom of speech to your best advantage.....how to dabate without falling into insults.
These schools run from 7th grade to 12th...with all these grades in the same school.
I am lucky one of these schools is in Salt Lake City, and my son will be entering 7th grade in the next school year. I am currantly working on getting my son into this school, and out of the regular public system.

Death, in the right circumstances, could be a gift...to one that is in hopeless agonizing physical pains with no hope of a cure in their lifetime, I would think so.

"Do Not Resuscitate"...it is an individuals rite of freedom to choose their own path.

As far as long-term emotional pain...as mentioned earlier, everyone has the rite to decide their path but this is different in that time does eventually heal emotional pain for almost all. So what is the correct answer here? Emotional support to aid the person in making a clearer judgement after exhausting some options. But when you come right to it...an individual has to have a will for life or no amount of support will help.

And I don't think any here thought you were advocating suicide, wellwhatnow.

This space for rent. Sorry, misread post.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by saint4God]

Hello is this tread dead? help LOL I'm hoping to talk with lilblam, I am with ya bud. I have even got the proof after spending the last 6 years looking for I didnt know what until read this post that spoke volumes right into me!
How true how true when you said its all in the details. I've made a pact with the ones i love hoping that it might still at the last moment give our fellow food products at last hope of freedom. Go right NOT light. It seems to me that we all have some how some way a built in recycling response, that when we die we got to the heavenly light, which isnt really heaven but back into the food chain recycled nice and neat. Some of us what ever it was with me Im not even sure but I see I get it life has no meaning and when I die I know that my first respone when I see the Light is to turn around and look to see what its shining on then I'll know its shining on me but why, then I'll look around and know that Freedom or 4th dimension or what the Fu*k ever is the other way, but hey if I want to go be recycled and be with all my loved ones who have gone before me which is also perfectly fine cuz ya sts sto its all good baby... so i pause here and hope to make contact with lilblam love peace

1blindman


I was a blindman in a world of eyes that could not See

Lilblam, you write this stuff out like you read it in a book. It sounds almost exactly like David Icke's INFINITE LOVE IS THE ONLY TRUTH, EVERYTHING ELSE IS ILLUSION. Except he goes way more in detail and actually presents evidence of his claims.

Your paranoid claims speak clearly of the condition of your conscious mind. I believe you had a nervous breakdown in the past and had some sort of spiritual break through in the middle of it. Don't worry it has happens, it even happened to me a few months back.

I believe your mind is still spent all caught up on whatever almost killed you, and figuring it all out. Call it the meaning of life, reality, god, quantum theory, fear of the unknown and death ect. Take a break and accept things for what they are. If you want to help do some Charity work. If you feel all twisted up in the head take a vacation, and make some friends. Believe me friends are a good thing and I have laughed with many of them in conversations about how silly sports and other # is.

Claiming the world is going to end in 5 years is just silly and immature from someone in your position. Yes your age and experiences do affect your creditability so get over it. Your twisted idea that life will end in 5 years is really scary. Ever think this set in stone belief is there simply to watch you fall? Take control man and see the bull# your putting yourself through. I wish you the best and hope you continue to share your thoughts and experiences. What annoys me and probably everyone else is you try and sell your beliefs as fact. This is dangerous and can come back to bite you in the ass (used against you) if you don't know what you're doing. Which you certainly do not.

Ive been on the far side of many trips through drugs and meditation. I believe the next breakthrough in human evolution will have to do with our ability to bridge the dream world with the physical world. Which will open many doors to many possibilities. I believe this is already being done at a small level through tools like art, music, ect. Everything comes from our imagination before it's seen or heard visually.

And last I remember reading about the Chief of Naval Operations killing himself a few years back over a newspaper questioning his wearing of a medal. He got mad and killed him self over it then come to find out he was actually allowed to wear the medal. This was the first person to go from E-1 to O10 and then to chief of naval operations "highest man in navy".
Sad but true.

Originally posted by TheRaven
The question is not if you are suicidal, it's if there is a reason we don't know that they do it. To call a person a coward for suicide is ignorant.

Note: Some drugs are said to be the effect, yes, but were they really? Or was it government covering up these deaths?

Ignorant huh? What do you call the actual act of suicide then? Or the path of destruction it leave's in its wake for all the loved ones of the person who killed themselves. Your right its not ignorant its cowardly and the most selfish thing you can do.

Originally posted by lvkyle
Lilblam, you write this stuff out like you read it in a book. It sounds almost exactly like David Icke's INFINITE LOVE IS THE ONLY TRUTH, EVERYTHING ELSE IS ILLUSION. Except he goes way more in detail and actually presents evidence of his claims.

I never said "infinite love is the only truth, everything else is illusion". I'd replace the word love with consciousness, then I'd agree. However, it would still only apply to the highest level of reality, not at all to our level. So when New Agers attempt to pass that off as their "philosophy for living", they're just using it as an excuse to ignore life, to avoid dealing with any problems in life, since none of it "matters" in their mind, only the "infinite light/love" matters. Ironically, in the future these people become exactly what they give to life - nothing. The way up is through consciousness and conscious learning, the way down is through entropy, apathy, and ignorance. Trying to get to consciousness by becoming "unconscious" of reality and just humming something all day won't work very well, and will tend to have the opposite effect.

Your paranoid claims speak clearly of the condition of your conscious mind.

Perhaps. But "paranoid" is a matter of perspective. The question is, which perspective is closer to objective reality, and which is mired in illusion?

I believe you had a nervous breakdown in the past and had some sort of spiritual break through in the middle of it.

Neither occured.

I believe your mind is still spent all caught up on whatever almost killed you, and figuring it all out. Call it the meaning of life, reality, god, quantum theory, fear of the unknown and death ect. Take a break and accept things for what they are.

The problem with your request is, how would one know how things REALLY are, as opposed to how they appear to be? If you accept things by their appearance to you, you're assuming that things really are as they appear to you, that your perception of them is absolute and you cannot possibly be deceived or mistaken. And yet, from my experience, that is often simply not the case - deception is the rule on this planet, not the exception. You can never have absolute assurance of how things REALLY are, but once you begin to see that the vast majority of things people believe to be true are false, you at least begin to get an idea of the depth of the deception.

Claiming the world is going to end in 5 years is just silly and immature from someone in your position. Yes your age and experiences do affect your creditability so get over it.

You can judge my credibility by my age or anything else if you wish to, it does not change the validity of my claims, only how you perceive them. And the validity of my claims cannot be determined by how "credible" someone judges me to be and then making an assumption based on that about how likely my claims are to be valid.

Your twisted idea that life will end in 5 years is really scary.

You can call it "silly", "immature", "twisted", or "scary", but all that is just your subjective judgements. I can call absolutely ANYTHING by those names, it does not in ANY WAY change the reality of the situation, it only prevents you from being able to see it since you already "defined" the reality for yourself with your subjective judgements. To see objective reality as it is, no judgements must be made, no assumptions whatsoever.

Ever think this set in stone belief is there simply to watch you fall? Take control man and see the bull# your putting yourself through.

I could ask you the same thing. The REAL question is, which one of us is correct? Saying "well of course I am" does not change the reality, it would only serve as a self-calming mechanism just like the judgements and assumptions.

I wish you the best and hope you continue to share your thoughts and experiences. What annoys me and probably everyone else is you try and sell your beliefs as fact.

They're not fact by any means. They may be completely wrong, just as anyone else's beliefs. The question however remains, ARE they wrong? One of the programs that people tend to run is the "I am right" program, where they convince themselves that their perspective is the RIGHT one and everyone else MUST be wrong, and so they close themselves off to any possibility that this may not be the case. And as such, close themselves off from any possibility of discovering the truth, since they define their reality subjectively instead of seeking what is objectively true. The first step is to stop running that ego-based program of "My perspective is the RIGHT one" or "I am RIGHT" and allow the possibility of being totally wrong, no matter how it damages the ego in the process, no matter how closely held those beliefs/assumptions may be. It's the only way to ever see what is real.

And as such, certainly I can be completely and utterly wrong about absolutely everything I ever say or think. Or I may not be. Jumping to conclusions, making subjective judgements about how "silly" things sound, making assumptions and creating preconceptions, and allowing the ego to dictate what "reality" is for you (instead of questioning what it REALLY is) all lead away from truth and into illusion.

There are no facts. Many things that are considered "facts" are simply lies. Selling anything as "fact" indicates a disintrest in questioning the reality of this "fact", it indicates that the person has established the reality in their mind, set it in "stone" as something that cannot be "touched" and is trying to convince others of the same.

However, I go by probability. I try to assign probabilities to how likely some things are to be true, and how likely they are to be not true. That takes research and critical thought, not just judgements or assumptions, not because I think it is "silly" or "absurd" just because it goes against my established perspective and beliefs.

This is dangerous and can come back to bite you in the ass (used against you) if you don't know what you're doing. Which you certainly do not.

Ironically, you just did what you asked me not to - sell your beliefs as fact.
But is this really a certainty, or your personal conviction of certainty where in reality there is none, and instead, is just your self-calming assumption? "Of course all the horrible things he said cannot possibly be true, he's just crazy and doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah that must be it".

If there is anything I learned, it is that there is no certainty, and to believe that your perspective is absolute or certainly true, or that someone else is certainly wrong, is always a self-calming lie. As long as we don't have an absolute and totally objective perspective of all things, we can be wrong, there can always be something we're not seeing or something that is entirely different from how we perceive it to be at the moment. To pretend otherwise, to pretend that your perspective is CERTAIN to be right, is a self-deception.

And again it always comes down to "what is true?". Being certain of something does not make it true, just makes it true in your head, and prevents you from questioning the reality of it. The sooner people stop declaring "certainty" and start questioning their beliefs and assumptions, the sooner they will wake up.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by lilblam]

Lilblam, what I'm saying is I think you read a few David Icke books and you used those theories as evidence and created a prophecy on this message board about horrible things that will happen in five or so years.

Sure it's possible for your prophecy to come true, or maybe it will come true but just be a coincidence. I'm sure you can get the tooth fairy, santa claws, leprechauns, and captin rob to believe you.


But maybe, just maybe.... Your full of pretty red roses.
If only I could bet the house, car, dog, wife, and every penny on you being full of pretty red roses. I'd quit my job as an exotic dancer.

and please shorten your explanations.


[edit on 19-11-2005 by lvkyle]

[edit on 19-11-2005 by lvkyle]

*mod edit for profanity*

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by lvkyle
Lilblam, what I'm saying is I think you read a few David Icke books and you used those theories as evidence and created a prophecy on this message board about horrible things that will happen in five or so years.

I've never read any Icke's material. I've heard of him though.

lets stick to the topic and not engage in personal attacks

I am a normal person living a normal life surrounded by good people and healthy challenges and the like, who's to say what's normal, normal is the perception of one person of another, in a way. I have never been traumatised, or at least not badly, I have never as such been racked with grief, I have all my faculties intact and I am of sound mind. You ask why some people commit suicide. Well there is no one solid answer. There is a myriad of complex reasons. All I can accurately do is give you one, my one, as every individual has unique enviromental conditions and circumstances.

I think that my individual case may shed some little light on your question, due to the nature of my circumstance. As I said, I have no beef with life, life hasn't thrown me any curve balls, at least none of any major impact, because no problems at all would be unhealthy as well, one must go through bad times in order to appreciate the up times. In my case, I cannot fully transcribe into words how I feel, only give you a rough picture. Life is like a road with obstacles and go faster strips... And at the end you die. So you ask yourself, If I'm going to die, what's the relevence of anything I do between here and then. Of course you would say legacy to those after, but if and when you go, none of it matters, at least to you. I am non-religous and believe there is nothing after death. If so, to me that is the perfect afterlife, cessation of existence, ultimate peace. So why not go now?

That's a rough picture of what I think. There are only a couple of reasons I'm still here though, as my signature would suggest

While people are more than welcome to work through difficult issues here, suicide is a bad idea, and no one is going to be permited to advocate it here.

Originally posted by lilblam

I never said "infinite love is the only truth, everything else is illusion". I'd replace the word love with consciousness, then I'd agree.

Hi lilbaum & all:

I'm surprised to see you limit your belief to consciousness, since you've said quite elegantly that all we think we know is just an illusion anyway. Maybe you're limiting yourself to deny the reality of absolute love.

About 15 years ago, I had a "dream/vision" of a white light experience. In that moment/eternity, I experienced the unimaginable power of truth that is Absolute Love.

Even though the experience changed my life, including my career path, I could not hold onto the experience for very long, and life returned to the mundane.

So, even though I feel I was given a momentary gift of "enlightenment," it was not mine to hold, or to initiate, but it removed all fear of death.

Aside from physiological, chemical, or traumatic causes of suicide, I keep trying to figure out why, if we are not in a truly "conscious" state in this plain of existence, if all this is illusion, what is wrong with suicide?

If we move from this illusion into the true consciousness of the next step, why would suicide be bad - from that other side anyway?

Due to its nature this is not a thread for ATS.

Thread closed

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Amuk]