Suicide...For a Reason?

I just read the first 5 pages and skimmed alot for about 3-4 hours and I am not going one way or the other on this reallity thing but I do have some logical Q's.

1. Are the greys in on this and if not, I wonder what sort of antics they would pull if they figured it out.

2. You say 90% of the people on earth will die cause the show is ending, how many greys will die and where will the planets go. Because if the show ends and starts over, wouldn't the planets need to as well?

3. If you understand time, then you would know the basics of "frame" control. Wouldn't you want to learn more about sci/tech to make a time machine for some cosmic shats and giggles?

4. How do know "it" will happen in 5 yrs?

5. Why would nothing matter even if it was false, things do still feel/taste good and you can't change the outcome...so why worry... fo-gad-abou-dit right?

6. For fun, is there any letters left on your KB?

I am a very blunt person. I am not trying to disprove you or getting the "easy" answer but if everything is fake, some form of logic is still present.

I wonder if this has any connection with kangaxx's thread/message.

You say one must want to know the the truth but you either do not know it your self or "know" and wont tell because you "know" its not the "TRUTH".

Lilblam:
Or, I know it, but realise that it simply must be sought with your whole being, or you'll never find it, as it cannot be given.

Mike

Is it not easier to comprehend a puzzle if you know the final result? for example, how can you complete a rubics cube if you do not know what the intended final state is required to be? is it not easier for a child to understand how an equation works once presented with the solution and then being able to work on the methods applied to better there understanding of such equations..

If you explain to a child that (10 + 10 = 20) a child can then apply what has been shown here to other equations simply by being aware of what the final solution is otherwise how can that child be sure that the answer is correct? How can someone know what is 'Truth' unless they are in a controlled environment which none of us are because we are constantly effected by external influences..

All this talk about finding things out for yourself and learning I totally agree with. This is basically due to the fact that the more things we percieve, the more aware we become about what these things are not.

(either that or its all false and the old "everyones crazy but me" theory comes into play as all which we know is false and therefore all which can be taught is false and therefore all which I, you or anyone else has learned is false and therefore what you state is truth as all things are false...)

"I think therfore I am!" - Rene Descartes




"I think I think therefore, I think I am!" - Ambrose Bierce


Klep.

(...hiccup......fnord!)

What does ANY of this have to do with sucide? Can we get back to something close to topic?

Originally posted by Amuk
What does ANY of this have to do with sucide? Can we get back to something close to topic?

Thought that the topic was "Suicide....For a reason" after which the original poster digressed into the reason behind there own experience that caused them to feel suicidal dentancies..

Rave:
Suicide...For a Reason?

I've done several researches in my past and I have a strong belief that some people commit suicide for some unknown reason. Maybe they have uncovered a secret that was so relieving or so horrifying that they took life into their own hands....

followed by...

Lilblam:
ah

I know secrets like this, that I found recently. They can make many commit suicide and go insane. You have no idea how strong of an effect some truths can be. This world is all based on lies, but that's no secret. The secret is the actual TRUTH. I thought I was going to puke, and I was depressed for a month and suicidal when I found out. (This isn't a belief, and I won't go into my evidence nor ask anyone to believe this. But it's some true, scary . But only true for me since I'm not sharing any sources... you must find this yourself.). Take this as my opinion, nothing more!

But yes, the truth was worth it after a month of hell. I never, in my wildest imagination, could come up with what it is I learned, and it scared the living out of me. All my values/beliefs/knowledge of the past had to be wiped entirely. I'm like a drone that had to start over. But it was worth it.. after I survived anyway.

Following statements by this poster have made me question their own personal opinion in order to further my impression of someones personal opinion..

I made my line of questioning in relation to this individuals experience in order to pursue the reason that led them individually to contemplate suicide as every other mention to this fact has been more specific.. how can I possibly comprehend if this individual (Lilblam) has a form of psycosis caused by the mental trauma following the contemplation of suicide unless he chooses to digress to his reasons which have been unsubstanciated..

That is what my personal line of questioning has been in responce to and that is what I believe this has to do with the threads title.. "suicide.. for a reason."

I hope Amuk that clears it my personal reasons for this perceived need to "...get back to something close to topic." .

Originally posted by Halcy0n
Look sorry for flipping out but i guess I just don't like not knowing what your big secret is. It pisses me off not understanding this stuff. But I guess there are tons of things I dont know. If you really know the secret of the universe well thats cool. I dont know if I would have enough patience to achieve that state. Anyways Even if I dont believe in your theories that doesnt give me the right to ridicule you for them.

But that's just what I've been trying to say all along - there ARE no secrets, there is only stuff that people don't know YET because someone is trying to KEEP it a secret and people are happy in their own illusions because the illusions are "comfortable", but as no system is "perfect", neither is this one. And just as no matter how secure your computer is a determined hacker CAN break through the security with enough patience and knowledge, so can a determined truth seeker "break through" the illusion and figure it out (not all at once of course). It's not soem "one truth" - it's many truths, "truth" implies ALL truth in ALL things, not any one specific thing. There are some things that are just much more difficult to accept than others because they contradict everything you've ever come to believe, but in order for anyone to begin to SEE, he must first be sufficiently SHOCKED and "rattled to the core", and bankrupt on many levels (moral, mental, etc) where he has "nothing to lose" so to speak. Without certain powerful shocks, it practically impossible to "wake up" and see. Sometimes you just need cold water to be splashed on your face (metaphorically) in order to shake yourself awake.

But once you face the fundemental nature of yourself and your reality, and begin discovering certain very uncomfortable things that your ego and EVERYTHING ELSE in you (and everything in the whole world) will be fighting to prevent you from seeing (called the "General Law" in esoteric terms), it may shock you enough to shake you awake, or it may cause you forget what you've just seen and "repress" it as you fall back into sleep. And even after you have shook yourself awake, it takes constant shocks and "reminders" to remain awake, because it is much too easy to fall back asleep and yet continue telling yourself that you're "waking up".

Anyways, it does not matter where you are, what matters is what you SEE - anyone can see objective reality as it is, if only they chose to see it, but making this choice requires to contradict all your other programming, which will do everything in its power to prevent you from making this choice, even fool you into believing that you've made the choice when in reality you are still blocking reality from entering your perception. And once again, it's not some one "mystical" truth, it's MANY - some are just more shocking than others. And no one can hide them from you but your own mind.

-Mike

lilblam:

I am really amazed of your knowledge, the way you see the truth is able to provide you a gudeline through your entire life. Keeping up this way of thinking will always gain you huge power over any person, and will never ever let you down.

I find no further words, but I am on the same path, exactly following those rules written above.

lilblam,

I must admit that I agree with much of what you have "said". People are too selfish/egoistic in this world but then who can blame them. We are all part of this "matrix", we are born into this "matrix" and are conditioned by our parents, teachers, friends and media to live life which are acceptable in our society. We are told how and what to think, what to wear and how to act. Anybody who is expressing something which is not acceptable to the majority of the people in his society will be treated rudely, jailed or in extreme cases eliminated.

Now about 'cassiopaea'. I personally suspect that they are either scam artists or they are mentally unstable. I think it might be both in this case. Don't get me wrong even they can have great ideas and concepts which will make sense. That why I never dismiss anything anyone is saying, I always try to take what is best for me. Each one has some truth to what he/she/they say. I think you have many good points with which I can personally identify but I am not sure personally if you are on the right track like you think. I also consider myself a 'truthseeker' , I sweared to myself that I will seek the truth with an open mind and no matter where it will take me I will still search for it without fear.

Now I have a curious question to ask you. What is your honest opinion about the existence of Jesus Christ? In your opinion: 1. Was he a real man and a son of God? or 2. Was he product of an extraterrestrial origin ? or 3. He never existed and is a myth which in actuality represent our Sun star?

Thank you.

[edit on 7-1-2005 by N0ONE]

Please keep in mind that anything I say here or elsewhere could always be wrong, or I could be intentionally lying for all you know. You don't know until you put in the effort to find out, so at the very best my answer should only be considered as one possibility out of many, and it is upto you to figure out which possibility is more likely to be true, with your own efforts. Having said that, I'll answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, just for fun.

Originally posted by XL5
I just read the first 5 pages and skimmed alot for about 3-4 hours and I am not going one way or the other on this reallity thing but I do have some logical Q's.

1. Are the greys in on this and if not, I wonder what sort of antics they would pull if they figured it out.

Well, curiously, no one really knows what sort of "antics" greys or any other "aliens" for that matter pull at any time, so it's not a question of what they would do if they found something out, it's a question of what DO they ever do anyway? All we see are glimpses of their presense, but their intentions, their actions, even their very nature is not so certain.

To the best of my knowledge, greys are hyperdimentional entities, and so are not limited by space nor time. And as a result, they are able to manipulate our race at all points of "time", and so are able to easily guide humanity in its progress and direction. But they are not the only ones that have "plans" for our race. There is much evidence to suggest that for as long as history dates back, certain "entities", most often of reptillian nature, have been involved in human affairs in one way or another, and influenced ancient civilizations and our current civilization in various ways, most of which are still unknown, but some of which are known once the pieces of the puzzle are at least partially put together. One such way is creating our religions as control mechanisms, but I won't get into precisely how religions control us here. There are esoteric writings around the world which contain ancient knowledge passed down for generations, all of which share a common "theme", but approach this theme from various perspectives, yet the basic premise remains, which CAN be verified even now by learning to see objective reality (the devil is in the details). Human race exists for the purposes of feeding another race of beings, who are not "alien" in the traditional sense one may perceive an "alien" to be. These "beings" are hyperdimentional (And I don't mean just greys), and their abilities and awareness so far exceeds ours, that they are literally "gods" in comparison, and they exist in many realities. Being timeless and spaceless, they don't need to come from some other planet to get here, they were always here, it is highly probable that it is we who were brought here from another world, as an ongoing experiment.

Certain individuals from ancient civilizations and even in our current one have left clues that seekers can find and connect together, to create a coherent picture of what is happening in our reality, something that could ONLY be passed down in "cryptic" and "scattered" ways, or not at all. In fact, the clues often contradict the very writings in which they appear, the writings themselves being more of a "cover" than anything, though written in such a way as to fool billions (remember the Bible, even the "elect" will be deceived). These clues are scattered in our languages, cultures, myths, religions, and many other places. In isolation they mean little, but when one begins to connect and piece them together, a rather shocking picture begins to emerge, which not only reveals our true history, but our present, and our probable future, and a lot more about humanity and certain "entities" that have used us for hundreds of thousands of years.

However, these clues can only be found when one is doing "The Work on Self" (another esoteric reference), meaning, removing our false personalities, conditioning, programming, beliefs, assumptions, and reworking our entire perception of who we are and what reality truly is. And when one is actively doing this work, the individual's new perception of objective reality as it truly is allows him to be able to SEE the clues where they have been left to be uncovered, because he is able to see past the elements which are created to control, to lead astray, and is able to discern the important elements. Also, not all "clues" are intentional, some are more or less "blunders" in the system, things that have been overlooked etc. There are many possibilities, but all in all, they all constitute "clues" and "pieces of the puzzle", which exist in all areas of human endeavors.

So "the work" is 2-fold, it is internal work and effort to clear our own entropic and conditioned state full of illusions, beliefs, and programming, and it is external, as we pay attention to signs, and collect clues, and network with other seekers to share what we have found. And as a result it enables the individual to begin to understand not just himself and the workings of the universe, but also the various specific control mechanisms imposed on this planet, who imposed them, how they work, and how to use your knowledge and understanding to break free. And no one can "make it out" alone, it is through an effort of a network of like-minded and co-linear people (those with the same goal) that are doing "The Work" and are working together to figure it all out, it is through such groups that escape will be possible.

However, the overwhelmingly vast majority of humanity is asleep, and will remain asleep and oblivious to what is happening right under their noses to the very end (which is also the beginning). This is natural, as an apple tree may have many seeds, but only very FEW become their own apple trees, and the rest just recycle into the soil - that's how nature works. Most are not yet ready to progress their consciousness to such a degree as to SEE objective reality and be ready to "move on" - not because they're "not good enough" or something, no not at all, simply because they are not in that part of their learning cycle to CHOOSE to seek truth, and dedicate their entire being to this effort, and to removing the false shells (like our personalities, programming, etc) that have been put on them in this world. They are simply too "busy" with the worldly things, with all the stuff created to keep them busy, to worry about some "higher truths", and it is their choice, even if the choice is "assisted" by those who seek to maintain the illusion.

Why is this information being made available now? Because the show is about to end, people are given an opportunity to evolve, instead of simply "recycle". And so, the truth is easier to discover now than it has ever been, and yet, there is more and more disinformation and distraction now than there has ever been as well - as a result.

2. You say 90% of the people on earth will die cause the show is ending, how many greys will die and where will the planets go. Because if the show ends and starts over, wouldn't the planets need to as well?

Greys are part of the control system, though they themselves are controlled by something else too (as all service-to-self entities are). They are not going to die, but will be taking part in replacing the old prototype with a new one (we are the "old" prototype). And with the upcoming global cataclysms and cometary bombardments that will decimate the population, they'll barely have to lift a finger. All of these events have been timed very precisely.

3. If you understand time, then you would know the basics of "frame" control. Wouldn't you want to learn more about sci/tech to make a time machine for some cosmic shats and giggles?

All in due time. It is possible that in a few years, I won't have to. But "shats and giggles" is not the point, right now I'm interested in paying attention to the events of our world as I do the Work on myself, so as not to be caught off guard for the upcoming "show", so I am able to help those who will be shocked into awakening and are now asking questions, and assist certain groups in other ways I won't get into at the moment.

And what is "frame" control? I understand time (or lack thereof) conceptually, not "mathematically" or "scientifically".

4. How do know "it" will happen in 5 yrs?

Nothing is certain, the future is open. But it's similar to how you might know when a solar eclipse is coming up, even though it's not here yet and is in the future, and everyone else somehow does not know how to tell when an eclipse will happen. Only it's more complex, and a lot of "stuff" goes into it, all of which contributes, like: Doing the internal work on self so you can understand yourself and others and why we do what we do etc, paying attention to the signs, having an idea about cyclic cataclysms and cyclic cometary bombardments by looking at history and other clues from the past, seeing who is behind current events (like 911) by looking at the evidence and connecting the dots, and trying to see if you can figure out what the likely goal is of certain "powers that be" might be, why it is what it is, how they will go about it, when it may be accomplished, etc. It's a multi-disciplinary approach so to speak, you utilize many areas of your knowledge and "connect the dots" from each of them to help you see the whole picture and what the likely outcomes may be. But nothing is "guaranteed", there's always room for error, and so, I try to refine my understanding all the time, see where I can be wrong, where I may be inaccurate, etc. Hey, it's a "work in progress"! The rabbit hole seems to have no end, as I constantly discover new "players" and "influences" and "connections". And the more assumptions you have, the more beliefs/sacred cows you have, the more conditioning is actively influencing your mind, the less chance that you'll be able to objectively SEE reality as it is, and thus, determine where it may be headed.

5. Why would nothing matter even if it was false, things do still feel/taste good and you can't change the outcome...so why worry... fo-gad-abou-dit right?

Kinda like your childhood toys don't matter to you anymore when you "grew out of them", because you found out that there is "more to life", more to this world, and so with your new awareness, your interests have expanded too. But going beyond even that analogy, certain things are simply "temporary distractions" that matter not in the grand scheme of things, in a universal sense, that don't add anything of true value to your being. For example, take computers. Learning about computers can teach you logic (like from programming), teach you to understand how complex systems can work together (networks, internet, etc), things that you can use to help you learn other things, that you can apply to other areas of life and that can help you grow in knowledge and awareness of reality as a whole. But memorizing what color your computer desktop is, well that's one of those "temporary" distractions, that although may mean the world to some people and be "very important", in reality, they are meaningless and useless, they do not "add to your being", they don't increase your understanding/awareness of reality, etc.

And even though I can't change the outcome, it is very useful for me to KNOW what is happening, because I can change the outcome for MYSELF, by becoming aware of the choice and then making the choice to become something different as a result of my knowledge and "approach" to reality itself. So knowledge like, counting how many strands of grass are in your lawn, is irrelevant. But understanding and learning about how grass grows etc helps you learn about nature itself, and gain understanding of how nature works and so adds valuable knowledge to your being. Anything can be fun, but not all is "relevant", and many things can work to carry you further into ignorance and entropy, instead of knowledge and greater Being. It is a personal preference, there's nothing "wrong" with either path. Currently, humanity is very entropic and ignorant, and the system as a result is on the verge of collapse (in addition to other reasons, and assisted by other "forces").

6. For fun, is there any letters left on your KB?

What's a KB, besides Kilobyte?

I am a very blunt person. I am not trying to disprove you or getting the "easy" answer but if everything is fake, some form of logic is still present.

Not EVERYTHING obviously, just most things are illusions, deceptions, and lies, designed to keep us imprisoned and as "food", and so render us unable to escape our prison, because the necessary knowledge is kept from us. But we're perfectly happy with our prison, because we're convinced we're free, so most won't even realise that they're slaves, much less try to learn about the system and how it works, and perhaps find a way out.

I wonder if this has any connection with kangaxx's thread/message.

I dunno, got a link?

[edit on 7-1-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by N0ONE
Now I have a curious question to ask you. What is your honest opinion about the existence of Jesus Christ? In your opinion: 1. Was he a real man and a son of God?

Having an idea about the nature of God, we're all "sons of God". But about Jesus specifically, I am inclined to think he was real, though much of his teachings have been distorted and corrupted later, to create a religion (and all that that implies).

or 2. Was he product of an extraterrestrial origin ?

Hard to say. He likely had a "connection" to knowledge that most are not privy to, and was able to teach it to others, though the word "extraterrestrial" is too limiting, because it's not all just "aliens" and "humans" in the universe. There are entities that may be human but have a more advanced consciousness than the average human. Or entities that are not "from another planet" but just a different "dimention" or "reality". Many possibilities exist. For all we know, we're also not "terrestrial", since our origins are pretty much a mystery. Certain things attributed to Jesus are indeed very deep and true, so it seems that whoever wrote them (even if it was Jesus who said them himself) knew something most people do not. Many other things are blatant deceptions, designed to control those who cannot see past the lies. What we know as "Jesus" in the Bible is most likely only a "shadow" of the man that actually existed, and so, what people think about when referring to Jesus and who Jesus really was may be very different things.

3. He never existed and is a myth which in actuality represent our Sun star?

His actual existance aside, I don't think our Sun was involved in any way with the persona of Jesus.

Thank you.

You're welcome. These are just my thoughts at this time, I'm not really "sure" about the details in regards to Jesus, just have some "idea". I could be wrong.

-Mike

Hmmm, the greys will be making new humans and are not effected by this crossover right? If thats so, it would make them caretakers in a way.
All the universe and earth will remain but some how the ones who "evolve" will not notice the 10% or 90% that "lived unchanged"? Do the evolve ones get another world to use?

KB as in keyboard, hence "letters".

This is Kangaxx's thread. Alot of his ideas seem to be the same.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

lilblam:

You are just right again and again! I do agree with those valuable informations you have posted here, and there is still no further comment, because I can't make any. I just want you to know.

All I am reading is a lot of spin, and for someone to know the 'truth' you don't appear to know much or be very specific..

All quotes by Lilblam:

Please keep in mind that anything I say here or elsewhere could always be wrong...

Nothing is certain, the future is open

I don't think our Sun was involved

yet you yourself say

I know secrets like this, that I found recently. They can make many commit suicide and go insane. You have no idea how strong of an effect some truths can be. This world is all based on lies, but that's no secret. The secret is the actual TRUTH

so how do you know what you have experienced is not an illusion?

You have admitted feeling suicidal how do you know that you are just not experiencing psychosis?

Definition

Psychosis describes severe mental illness that involves, an individual, being unable to distinguish between what is real and what is imaginary.

Symptoms include hallucinations (seeing, smelling or feeling things that do not exist), delusions (bizarre, false beliefs) or hearing voices (when no one is talking). Also severe thought disturbances and grossly abnormal behaviour.

Link to the above

you come across as an intelligent person to me and I have read all posts that have been submitted on this thread whic I feel is sufficient to make an educated guess about the logic you show.. however, even intelligent people experience psycosis...

Although you will probably inform me that this definition is construed by people who wish to illusion the people.. not all medics work for the system though Lilblam.

How you can possibly say that seeking information will help find the 'truth' that you have so say discovered? Admitidly, I have to agree that you can only understand a concept by studying that specific concept (the more you study it, the more of an understanding you will gain) but if I spent the next 20years of my life studying the way that my remote control functions or the principles behind how plant life flourishes, this does not provide me with information about how society functions.. even if I study how society functions and different societies around the world, this does not mean that you will get the answers to why we are here although you profess to having access to this 'knowledge' after feeling like ending your life...

no offence but you can understand that it is hard to believe what you have stated under those circumstances.. it's like trying to convince someone who is insane that they are actually insane which is why the first way of resolving that you have an issue is to admit you have one in the first place. Is there really a distinct different between changing to 'mentally evolve ' or crossing the barrier of mental anguish into a level of insanity? prolly not which is why they say that there is a fine line between insanity and genius.. however if you came to the conclusion that the truth could only be accomplished through .. death for example, this could be constrewed by this individual as an epiphany whereas people who had not thought of this may find the notion insane and therefore you could proove a danger to yourself or to others...

People are entitled to think what they wish, does not mean you have to listen to this anymore than you have to listen to Charles Manson who in his own mind probably believes himself to be right in his own mind..

These also include eccentrics..

-Idi Amin, president of Uganda, self-proclaimed "Conqueror of the British Empire"

-Nikola Tesla, Serbian-born obsessive-compulsive who feared pearl earrings

-Aleister Crowley, British occultist

-Anton LaVey, founder and High Priest of the Church of Satan

-Jeremy Bentham, British philosopher who wanted himself mummified

All are highly intelligent and all are quite eccentric! Some of things that the above say are quite true, some are fascintaing but a lot is CRAZY and you have to ask yourself... would you let any of the above look after your small children? Exactly!

Klepto:

You have just answered your questions stated above. I think, there is no further comment on it .

Anybody's posts can be twisted around, especially if those posts are meant to be describing unexplained/paranormal thoughts. In this cast, the "Truth" means the actual proof/evidence hidden behind a person's thoughts/script/words/actions. It is not a general truth of the evolving World, but you can find that too, by observing things at a wider range. Whatever you feel useful, you can observe that and follow rules upon them.

It is not a general truth of the evolving World, but you can find that too, by observing things at a wider range. Whatever you feel useful, you can observe that and follow rules upon them.

tue, true.. truth does refer to the meaning behind someones motives but if lilblam is just trying to say that the 'truth' that he discovered is the fact that lifes a b17ch due to the effects upon him by others but survived by just dealing with it.. then there is no illusion so to speak as not all people can be pleased all of the time. However, i do not believe this is the path with which Lilblam is following as you do not have to experience too much to realise this fact.

People do hide the truth in order to better there own needs, this is not anything new and this realisation does not require research.. this is just plain manipulation.. nothing else.. but the fact that Lilblam is demonstrating this by example shows that he himself is the same as the truth that he hates.. this could be perceived to be a low level hatred for one's self by becoming that which you hate in order to understand it and therefore deal with it.. but this just further enforces the fact that Lilblam actions and words reflect Psychosis.. although his theroies or discoveries may not all be false, they may be perceived to best suit his current state of mind..

(Lilblam, please understand that I am not trying to be derogatory by these posts but am trying to show you the 'truth')

Klep.

This is because not every person is same.

Every individual is performing differently, and so is describing his/her thoughts differently. Some elements may be chilling, but generally you were able to define those parts you needed.

Those people who are hiding the "truth", or let's say, their true side, are actually building up an illusion for themselves, and keep this illusion in shape. It means, that they can be easily attacked by any person, who has no illusion around him, because he does not need that. Those who are not honest for their own self, and try to live a life like that, will never ever achieve anything against those, who live a straight life. This was always a rule, since humans exist.

It is also not a good idea to attack a person's post, if you have no reason for that. But: if you try to influence someone who has such a detailed mind, you won't be able to do that, because he "knows" what you are up to. And he won't change, because he has no reason for that. But I have no right to speak in the name of another person.

Cheer up!

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Vertu]

Originally posted by Vertu
This is because not every person is same.

Those people who are hiding the "truth", or let's say, their true side, are actually building up an illusion for themselves, and keep this illusion in shape....

It means, that they can be easily attacked by any person, who has no illusion around him, because he does not need that.

So what you are saying is that a person who creates an illusion for themselves is open to being manipulated by by someone who has no illusion and only acts upon what they conceive to be true knowledge..
This is fair enough however, the point I was trying to make was that people who are under an illusion generally do not know this, how does Lilblam know this is the case... Lilblam mention somewhere that we do not know this and some times we need to wake up by shocking ourselves with cold water... that fact that someone is capable of building an illusion about what is going on around them means that they are suseptable to having this again.. just because you realise that things you may have perceived to be true inthe past actually turned out false, this does not mean that because of this discovery, all future discoveries therefore have to be true..

"Those who are not honest for their own self, and try to live a life like that, will never ever achieve anything against those, who live a straight life. This was always a rule, since humans exist. "

being honest with yourself I agree is paramount.. there is no point kidding yourself about anything and not letting other affect you. However this is dangerous if you happen to be a ruler of a fascist dictatorship... this is the point I was trying to make, all fascist dictators believed what they thought was correct and stayed true to themselves.. this does not however mean that the actions taken were correct.

It is also not a good idea to attack a person's post, if you have no reason for that.

..I did not intend to attack the post as I mention at the end..

(Lilblam, please understand that I am not trying to be derogatory by these posts but am trying to show you the 'truth')

Hope you have a smashing day too young 'un






[edit on 8-1-2005 by Vertu]

Originally posted by Klepto
So what you are saying is that a person who creates an illusion for themselves is open to being manipulated by by someone who has no illusion and only acts upon what they conceive to be true knowledge..
This is fair enough however, the point I was trying to make was that people who are under an illusion generally do not know this.

that fact that someone is capable of building an illusion about what is going on around them means that they are suseptable to having this again.. just because you realise that things you may have perceived to be true inthe past actually turned out false, this does not mean that because of this discovery, all future discoveries therefore have to be true..

being honest with yourself I agree is paramount.. there is no point kidding yourself about anything and not letting other affect you.

I did not intend to attack the post as I mention at the end.

But I am pointing at those, who intensionally build illusions around themselves. In fact, most people who do this, are highly aware of it, and ALWAYS do that for hostile reasons. However, if a particular person can see into their mind, he will know that a certain approach has hostile description, and it is aiming right against him. Now: once you realize that attack pointing to you, it is your choice whether you return that to the sender, play a game, or find another solution. The hostile person therefore has no solution, but agree with the restrictions against him, and his hostile plan being ruined.

Those people who are actually trained (by parents, peer pressure, work, etc) to build an illusion upon themselves, may not be quite aware of that, but they definitely know its usage, and also use that for hostile purposes.

Those who suspect the truth in the past, and realize after all that they were wrong, they are actually "learning". It is very nice if a person is capable to learn through his life, and accepts the new events as "truth". Fine!

A person being hostile to others (in any means) can get confused due to his illusions, and therefore unintensionally can be dishonest to himself or he can let himself down. Very serious, but many many people suffer due to this!!

Originally posted by Vertu
But I am pointing at those, who intensionally build illusions around themselves. In fact, most people who do this, are highly aware of it, and ALWAYS do that for hostile reasons. However, if a particular person can see into their mind, he will know that a certain approach has hostile description, and it is aiming right against him.

surely building up self illusion is a defence though? you create an illusion for ones self in order to protect you from what is real.. this does not mean that reality is not real just that a person can change what they perceive to suit their own needs in their own mind... this perception is the illusion that I believe you are talking about, but saying that all people are in this state of illusion is not correct. It just means that a person who has realised that they had been perceiving life to suit their own needs described as an illusion has began to realise that they had an issue with reality. It may suit the persons needs to state that they themselves have realised that they had been disillusioned about reality and that others around him have yet to experience this before they have a true grip on reality. What I am saying is that the majority of people never needed to find the 'truth' because they were never disillusioned in the first place. The disillusioned person therefore has only come to understand that they are beginning to get a grip on reality and assuming that this reality is somehow 'clearer' than everone elses which is not the case, it is only clearer than the individuals previous take on reality was.

Those who suspect the truth in the past, and realize after all that they were wrong, they are actually "learning". It is very nice if a person is capable to learn through his life, and accepts the new events as "truth". Fine!

Like I said previously, there is nothing wrong with learning from mistakes, that is human nature. but learning through life and accepting all new events as truth is not correct only an experience as the experience could have false pretenses.. you can only perceive what something is by knowing what it is not.

Originally posted by Klepto
surely building up self illusion is a defence though? you create an illusion for ones self in order to protect you from what is real.. this does not mean that reality is not real just that a person can change what they perceive to suit their own needs in their own mind...

It just means that a person who has realised that they had been perceiving life to suit their own needs described as an illusion has began to realise that they had an issue with reality. It may suit the persons needs to state that they themselves have realised that they had been disillusioned about reality and that others around him have yet to experience this before they have a true grip on reality.

but learning through life and accepting all new events as truth is not correct only an experience as the experience could have false pretenses.. you can only perceive what something is by knowing what it is not.

Right. Whatever the genuine goal to set up that illusion, it is always very easy to be trapped in the terms of hostility. All people using illusions against others become blinded, and think that they can get away with it, and do their actions without emotions or restrictions. They finally reach to a state, where they cannot stop, and their hostile soul needs more feeding. And where can they get it? From those, who are innocent in this issue.

Usually a person cannot stand other illusive people, because their ego is too great. This is normal in their mind.

Always this illusion is required to support that person's needs, never to care for someone, or be helpful. A very selfish reason it is. You are right about it, it is the REAL point. It is why cannot stop, and hostile elements are needed to keep up with it.

A person learns and accepts the experiences as truth, because he can decrypt his lifetime and can date back to the past, where false experiences occured. Therefore, the new will be the truth.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Vertu]

Excellently put Vertu.. but I am sure that which you and I have both stated will be put down to illusion by any disillusioned readers...

"Who's more the fool... the fool or the fool who follows him?"



-Obi-Wan Kenobi
Jedi Master (Deceased)
Silver Medalist in 'Miss Degobah' competition
(Later disqualified for use of Jedi Mind Trick)