Suicide...For a Reason?

Originally posted by Klepto
Excellently put Vertu.. but I am sure that which you and I have both stated will be put down to illusion by any disillusioned readers...

"Who's more the fool... the fool or the fool who follows him?"

I think, those being forced under illusions , simply have a "problem". I'm not one of those, so I let them decide what they do, no way to change their mind.

Originally posted by XL5
Hmmm, the greys will be making new humans and are not effected by this crossover right? If thats so, it would make them caretakers in a way.

In a way, though once again, whatever they do with us in their best interests not ours, they serve themselves. I'm just saying that because "caretaking" is usually seen as a "nice thing to do" - but then again, if a government imposes a totalitarian control on its people, you could call the government "caretakers" too because it will be making all the decisions for the people and be responsible for providing the people with the necessities of life, as it deems necessary.

However, no entity or race of beings needs a "caretaker", if that race of beings does things that end up destroying the entire race, so be it, it is their lesson learn and they are reaping the consequences of their own actions, even if they are based in ignorance. But the term "caretaker" seems vague, as it can apply to someone like a "babysitter" or someone like "Hitler".

All the universe and earth will remain but some how the ones who "evolve" will not notice the 10% or 90% that "lived unchanged"? Do the evolve ones get another world to use?

Something like that. More like the world already exists, but by virtue of their knowledge and resulting higher awareness, coupled with their chosen polarity, they'll no longer fit in this world which is designed for a specific level of entities, and will as a result go to one where they do fit, to learn futher lessons.

KB as in keyboard, hence "letters".

Yes my keyboard has all the letters on it still! You see, I'm actually sitting in a hyperdimentional vehicle that utilizes the anti-matter universe to access any point in space-time (commonly referred to as UFO), and I'm writing just by thinking about it because my mind is interfaced with the computers of this vehicle, and so there is no need for keyboards! Hmm that was a joke by the way!

Originally posted by Klepto
so how do you know what you have experienced is not an illusion?

You have admitted feeling suicidal how do you know that you are just not experiencing psychosis?

Which brings us to, how does anyone know anything at all? Is there a difference between knowledge and conviction/belief/assumption? Are there any certainties at all?

I work with probabilities. I try to see objective reality as best as I can and assign probabilities based on the data I have and my observations, and I use my mind to try to make sense of the data and what I see, and then compare it to others and their conclusions, and try to reach a common understanding which would be closer to objectivity than either of us would have in isolation.

And one of the first things I realised was that all I see is skewed through my own assumptions and conditioning, and so I had to start working on removing them first, before I could see reality without obstruction. And although yes, ALL that we see is illusion in a higher sense, because when one rises in level of awareness the fundemental truths of reality itself may change which falsifies many previous "truths" (they were only true from within a certain context, within a certain level of awareness), certain things remain because they are "absolute" and "universal", though it is never easy to know if something falls into that category, but not impossible.

For example, I can say "The Patriots won the last superbowl". That may be true for our reality, but for a hyperdimentional entity that can perceive all possible realities, this is neither true nor false, as he can perceive a reality where they won, and where they lost. This is an example of a truth which relies on context, like our commonly-shared awareness of reality.

A universal truth is that the creator and the creation are one and the same. This remains unchanged through all levels of density, though as one rises in awareness one becomes much more aware of this, and is able to have deeper and more accurate knowledge of just how this "works" in a non-linear way.

Definition

Psychosis describes severe mental illness that involves, an individual, being unable to distinguish between what is real and what is imaginary.

Ahem... *cough* religious people *cough*

Symptoms include hallucinations (seeing, smelling or feeling things that do not exist)

Ahem... *cough* TV avengelists that talk to the "holy spirit" or "Jesus" or even "God". Heck, our own president claims to talk to God! And on a serious note, who is to say that those things do not exist, perhaps sometimes it is a glimpse into a reality that is as real as ours, just not generally perceived? Could be just imagining things, could be more than that. Usually doctors wouldn't know the difference of course.

, delusions (bizarre, false beliefs)

Ahem... *cough* religious people *cough*. However, it's kinda hard to be a judge of what is a false belief or not, if you're not really sure what the heck is going on in reality and what is real, as often the same doctors who proclaim these things are filled with bizarre, false beliefs themselves.

or hearing voices (when no one is talking).

Back to Bush we go! However, the devil is in the details. There is much evidence to suggest that mind control techniques have been used on people to get'em to do what certain "agencies" want them to do, which often means they will hear in their mind thoughts that are not their own, that are remotely implanted. It could always be your imagination and paranoia, but it could be many other things that science is just not yet aware of. Our reality is very complex and multifaceted, and so are our minds.

Also severe thought disturbances and grossly abnormal behaviour.

Well that one is just pure junk - there is no such thing as "normal", that is just subjective. But of course, anyone acting a little "different" from what is socially accepted in their culture can be "nuts", because usually those people that wake up from their daze and begin to THINK for themselves and actually develop a less-entropic and less-programmed, machine-like existance, are considered crazy by the mechanical, conditioned, entropic, ignorant, and fearful society we live in. If one begins to SEE his own nature and the nature of those around him, he will definitely be seen as "crazy" by those that are simply asleep and act according to their programs as all entropic entities do.

My suggestion for those that are beginning to SEE the "terror of the situation" would be, "play along" with society, do as Jesus advised (for it is sound advice): Be in this world but not of it. Sooner rather than later certain events will transpire that won't require you to "play along", because people will be too busy trying to survive and being herded into concentration camps than worry about how "normal" anyone is. This is when the work you're doing now will allow you to calmly SEE what is going on, and thus be able to DO something without the "emotional, confused, panicky" state that most everyone will be in. But until then the "General Law" is active.

Although you will probably inform me that this definition is construed by people who wish to illusion the people.. not all medics work for the system though Lilblam.

Not necessarily "work for the system", but closer to "don't know any better".

How you can possibly say that seeking information will help find the 'truth' that you have so say discovered?

As opposed to ignoring any and all information, and just watching cartoons for the rest of your life? How does one learn anything anyway? How can you possibly say that seeking information, verifying it, seeking to understand how reality works, is NOT the way to find truth? I mean you can always just make something up and call it "truth" also...

Admitidly, I have to agree that you can only understand a concept by studying that specific concept (the more you study it, the more of an understanding you will gain) but if I spent the next 20years of my life studying the way that my remote control functions or the principles behind how plant life flourishes, this does not provide me with information about how society functions.

No, and if I spend 3 hours counting the hairs on my head, and then 30 years counting the hairs on the heads of everyone in my neighborhood, I also wouldn't know much more about biology.

Time management is important, to learn what is relevant and of value, and what is "a waste of time" is important. That's why you have intelligence and ability to reason, though you cannot make any assumptions also, because it's too easy to just label anything "waste of time" without really knowing if it is. The devil is in the details. Usually, truth and lies come together, no one source is ONLY LIES and no one source is ONLY TRUTH. Learn to discern truth from lies by utilizing your knowledge and understanding, it's an ongoing process, and it's never "easy". This is also why you don't learn 1000 ways to tie your shoes if your goal is to understand the nature of this world, how it works, why it works the way it works, and many other things. But at least you'll be able to tie your shoes 1000 different ways!

no offence but you can understand that it is hard to believe what you have stated under those circumstances.. it's like trying to convince someone who is insane that they are actually insane which is why the first way of resolving that you have an issue is to admit you have one in the first place.

Ah, how does one "define" an issue? I think the point is to see objective reality, which means stop the "wishful thinking" and "beliefs". By whose standards would I be considered "crazy". Yes, I'm "different" in that what I know and what I have chosen to do means I'll not "act" as society dictates you should to "fit in". But would you call that an "issue" or a "problem"?

The "suicidal feelings" I had were more to do with the shock of witnessing reality as it is, not because it was "bad" necessarily, but simply because it was so DIFFERENT from what I thought before. Part of me was extremely happy at that moment, but the part of me that was so used to the illusions was the part that was "suicidal". But as long as you do not pass judgement, no truth is "bad" or "good" - it's either true or it's not.

And in order to SEE it, you must first face who you truly are, all aspects of yourself, without "ignoring" anything or "wishfully thinking" to think that you are something that you're not - which is what most people do, including most "doctors" who make up definitions for "psychosis". Without them even realising it, parts of their own definition applies to them, because they are under heavy illusions of themselves and of reality, and have certain "bizarre false beliefs" about how the world truly operates.

One such "bizarre false belief" is thinking that islamic terrorists hijacked a bunch of planes with boxcutters and were responsible for 911. That indeed is a wild conspiracy theory which contradicts all the evidence and data that says otherwise. One would have to be truly "psychotic" to believe something like that! It's really ironic what one can discover about the "silly" nature of our own "sciences" and "popular beliefs". All is really not as it seems.

Is there really a distinct different between changing to 'mentally evolve ' or crossing the barrier of mental anguish into a level of insanity?

All depends on how one defines "insanity".

prolly not which is why they say that there is a fine line between insanity and genius.. however if you came to the conclusion that the truth could only be accomplished through .. death for example, this could be constrewed by this individual as an epiphany whereas people who had not thought of this may find the notion insane and therefore you could proove a danger to yourself or to others...

Yup. In fact, many people that will "evolve" will have to die first, not necessarily as some "requirement", but because survival in the next few years will simply be a big "pain in the ass" and so very few will "survive". But it doesn't mean that all who don't survive have "failed". No, this has nothing to do with "suicide" (like those mass suicides of cults who decide that this is the way to a "greater world"). Bull! We came here to learn, and we won't get anywhere until we learn! There's no "shortcuts". And so, only after you have attained certain levels of knowledge are you "eligible" for "graduation" - and no, there is no "authority" that decides that, it's simply a natural process as a result of your knowledge and awareness, which you develop by paying attention to the world and yourself, and learning about both.

It is your consciousness that evolves, and that is what matters - not your body. But you have a body for a REASON, otherwise you wouldn't be here. As seen from our study of nature itself, nothing happens "for no reason" in nature, and so it is with all existance.

People are entitled to think what they wish, does not mean you have to listen to this anymore than you have to listen to Charles Manson who in his own mind probably believes himself to be right in his own mind..

These also include eccentrics..

-Idi Amin, president of Uganda, self-proclaimed "Conqueror of the British Empire"

It never was nor ever will be my intention to conquer or control anyone, or to pretend to have conquered anyone to satisfy my own delusions of "grandeur" and my own ego.

-Nikola Tesla, Serbian-born obsessive-compulsive who feared pearl earrings

Irrational fear, or "paranoia", is not something I indulge in. However, if it is possible that he had a reason to avoid pearl earrings, that is simply not known by us, then perhaps it wasn't so irrational. Though I don't know, it's just a possibility.

-Aleister Crowley, British occultist

Rituals are self defeating, and thus, I have no interest in any rituals. But studying the occult, its history, and other things about it, can really help, once again, to KNOW our reality, not to "play with fire". The "occult" has to do with "supernatural", though, anything supernatural is simply NATURAL things that have not yet been understood. There is often a negative connotation with the occult, because many associate it with some "evil satanistic rituals involving blood, sacrifice, black magic, etc". But that is not true for "all" occult, even if that thought itself is ignorant as it contains many other undefined and not really understood things, but it does "scare" people!

So doing something as simple as meditating can already be shoved into the "occult", or channeling, etc. Devil is in the details. Studying this guy (crowley) reveals many things though, he had certain "connections" and so forth that can lead you to surprising information. He was certainly a very "interesting" guy, to say the least!

-Anton LaVey, founder and High Priest of the Church of Satan

Which is no better than the guy who founder the "Church of Christ". Though many programs often will fire in one's head to urge you to mechanically disagree with me here, and try to argue for the "goodness" of the "Church of Christ" and the "evilness" of the "Church of Satan". But hey, we are mechanical, ignorant, and thus entropic beings by default, so it is in our nature to impulsively react when our programs are "triggered", without critical thought or research of our own. This "compulsion" is part of the reason that our civilization is collapsing, and is so easily manipulated by certain "elite" who know better. And btw I'm not talking directly to you or anyone, I mean people in general.

-Jeremy Bentham, British philosopher who wanted himself mummified

Whatever floats his boat!

All are highly intelligent and all are quite eccentric! Some of things that the above say are quite true, some are fascintaing but a lot is CRAZY and you have to ask yourself... would you let any of the above look after your small children? Exactly!

Only to come home and find your baby in the center of a pentagram drawn out of blood on your NEW CARPET, with candles on all sides and this dude chanting something to summon Satan or some other perceived entity to sacrifice your baby? Does he know I JUST bought the damn carpet, and blood stains are pain in the ass to remove? (joke!).

Well, atheistic stalinist philosophies and societies also have many truths in them, so do religions and other things. But all contain many lies and illusions in them (some intentional, some just mistakes because the writer does not know any better). But my advice is, KNOW YOUR BABYSITTER. I probably would not let Plato babysit my kid either (if I had a kid), I just don't know the guy well enough, even if he's a "wise philosopher".

If you take my mom though, she was over-protective and paranoid enough to NEVER let ANY babysitter babysit me, period. But hey, look at me, I turned out normal *hiccup* fnord! Er where'd that come from...

(bad joke)

-Mike

[edit on 8-1-2005 by lilblam]

After further deliberation and contemplation, I wish to retract my previous statements on this particular thread. I believe what I have said to be honest and truthful, however lacking in my further insight.

Apologies.

Klep

I'm agree with alot of what Lilblam is stating and I know that it is hard to explain to people that have not come to certain realizations. It does sound "insane" on the surface. We are brought up and taught in a certain way and the result of this being our collective reality that is safe and "sane" to us. When you experience an extreme deviation from this reality, it can be extremely horrifying.

Here is an example of what could be so horifying. Don't read on if you don't want to continue on the path to find out.


Ponder this for awhile as you go about your daily routines. We all go along our daily lives and we believe that we are individuals and everyone else is a separate individual also. What if you decided in your mind that you are the only one here and everyone and everything else is only one other thing? Get my drift? What is it that you are seeing then? Who are you talking to and what are they really telling you if they are all looked at as one thing instead of separate individuals?

Remember, if you see it, you can always change your mind back to your safe reality.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by merovingian]

People commit suicide because that was their agreement when they chose to reincarnate back into this life. This is part of the lesson they came back here to experience. Perhaps in a previous life they cut someone else�s life short and they have to experience this themselves.

This may explain the deeper reason. It is in their blueprint. Can they change that? Perhaps they can and this is where the choice comes in. This is about courage at that point because I believe taking one�s own life cannot be easy.

OK, I've been doing soul searching and just regular searching. I think I'm edging forward. Through a friend, I have found out half the stuff lilbam is saying. For months, I've been sticking to myself trying to avoid all forms of control, trying to change my opinion, etc. I've been seeing distractions such as movies, the internet, and many other things.

I tried to follow some advice a poster gave me a few pages back about trying to verify what people tell me- anywhere. I realized I was in a state of hypnosis for most of the day, forgetting everything and being distracted by things such as friends, school, etc.

A few nights ago, I went on a walk and started thinking. It's a bit of a theory, but I think we're being controlled by inanimate objects (stay with me). I got into a talk about how chemicals control our emotions, our thoughts. Later, I realized I'm an "inanimate object." I'm just a mass of atoms. I'm no different than say a rag doll. I'm just equipped with chemicals. This seemed to tie into a lot when thinking about it. I don't feel like going in depth.

Something also sticking in my mind was an old thread. I remember someone asked everyone to look at the years between intervals:

1000 A.D. - 1200 A.D.
1400 A.D. - 1600 A.D.
1600 A.D. - 1800 A.D.
1800 A.D. - 2000 A.D.

Just think about everything that happened between those times, including what happened to human knowledge of the world.

I don't know where to go next. I might "prove time doesn't exist." I might find something else and my own explanation for suicide. It might be utterly futile because I just can't force myself to believe what lilbam suggested- that aliens control us and want to kill us- but that may be mysellf being egotistical.

Well if the greys are "caretakers" of either type and are not involed with this and won't die, then in a way, we are thier experiment as well.
But really, if some of will remain and some will upgrade, then why worry about what will happen? Why lose intrest in a past life that you are afraid to lose, unless its just an intoxicating persuit of the truth, but then, for what purpose?


Did you look over kangaxx's thread/message yet, what do you think?

Originally posted by Otto_States
I don't know where to go next. I might "prove time doesn't exist." I might find something else and my own explanation for suicide.

Here you are in a situation, when your whole life-experience would be needed the most, and you haven't got any. I'm amazed of these people! What's the solution? Since you haven't got the knowledge to get to know people better, you have to support yourself with those experiences that you achieved in the near past. Things are very easy to those, who "learnt to live", but in your case, you seemingly haven't done anything to achieve your goal, there comes the confusion in this very moment. It seems, that you keep shouting for help, with the least trust to those, who are really into helping to you. As you just can't solve a particular problem, and you simply refuse any help from others, and you definitely skip the possibility of trusting others, you are thinking about suicide.

In reality, the problem is not with all the other people around you, instead, it is right inside you, because you seemingly have an unhealthy soul. It is why something so evident is always reminding you of hostility and hatred!

Very interessting.
I haven't read all of your posts, read all on the first pages, so this might already have been brought up.
1. What will we gain by knowing the truth when the "final hour" comes and we're all "rebooted"?
2. Does, in this "alternate universe/dimension" or whatever to call it where the advanced beings controll us, the laws of physics apply(energy especially)?
3. What will happen when we die, if you know that? Can we die?

Originally posted by Phood
Very interessting.
I haven't read all of your posts, read all on the first pages, so this might already have been brought up.
1. What will we gain by knowing the truth when the "final hour" comes and we're all "rebooted"?

You'll gain the reason for seeking the truth. The fact that you know the truth about a particular event/person proves to you, that you don't make mistake and your goal can be finalized. 100% only exists in your mind, and it's you, who has to be sure of the actions, not other people.

Instead of seeking others' mistakes, you have to reorganize your own thoughts. Because it's a particular behaviour which can prove you what kind of an other person truely is. If you are hostile and mean, you will be only capable to see the enemy in the presence of another person. But if your soul is clean, you will be able to see things at a much wider range.

Of course, a person cannot just change from day to day, it is a very long process.

Originally posted by Otto_States


I don't know where to go next. I might "prove time doesn't exist." I might find something else and my own explanation for suicide. It might be utterly futile because I just can't force myself to believe what lilbam suggested- that aliens control us and want to kill us- but that may be mysellf being egotistical.

There's no need to believe anything. However, consider the idea that I've already brought up, that we (humans) also breed "livestock" and chickens in chicken coops, and slaughter them by the thousands when we have the urge to do so. This is not "murder" for us, this is simply "nature", the way things work, as we're simply higher in the food chain, and they are our FOOD and we therefore get to do with them anything we please (and so we do). However, does it really matter if the chickens "refuse to believe that they'll be slaughtered"? Not really, however, the more the chickens practice "wishful thinking" (believing comfortable self-calming illusions just because they make them "feel good" as opposed to facing the possibility of an uncomfortable reality), the less chance they'll ever figure out the reality of their situation, and thus, the less chance there is that they'll ever be able to DO anything about it, and be that much easier to kill and/or control!

What I'm saying is, belief is simply irrelevant - things are either true, or they are not, regardless of what we tell ourselves - although most people prefer to tell themselves what is "comfortable" for them to hear, what is "pleasant" - not because there is EVIDENCE to suggest that it's true, but simply because that's what they WANT to believe, and so they close off the possibility of EVER seeing the truth simply because of that wishful thinking. Also, it's not really that "the aliens" "wanna kill us" anymore than we "wanna kill our livestock" - they don't perceive it as you perceive murder of another person, it is not "mal-intent" or "evil" as we often associate with someone who kills other people (though somehow we praise our army as heros, even though they are mass murderers...). Just like we don't perceive killing chickens are "murder" or "evil". The way you think about yourself and humanity is not the way other beings think about you and humanity in general. The way a deer thinks about himself is not the same as what the hunter thinks about the deer - because that same hunter would never hunt a human being, since he gives more "value" to human life than he does to some "animal". But value is SUBJECTIVE, though humans (and all STS entities) like to think of themselves as "special" and "important" in some way, and thus "protected" by some "divine power" just because we want to be protected. It just isn't so, and history is full of examples for this.

The first step to figuring out this whole mess, is stop the wishful thinking, meaning, don't assign more or less probability to anything just because of personal desire for a certain thing to be "true" or "false" - look only at the data/evidence that you have available, which often enough is simply certain understandings you gain by critically thinking about the nature of man, and thus the nature of different entities in the universe at their CORE (most fundemental levels). Make no assumptions or beliefs, which are both "wishful thinking".

One of the "key" understandings all people eventually develop (people who are on their way to "advance"), is that the universe is composed of 2 polarities: Service to Self (STS), and Service to Others (STO), which perfectly balance one another. That's one of the core "basics" that one must understand, that there is no "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "evil", just STS, and STO. However, various conditioning (social and otherwise) that is in us at the moment twists this reality, and often makes STS appear as STO and vice versa. By default, ALL humans are STS. The only way to become STO is to have the KNOWLEDGE of what STO is, and once aware of the choice, CHOOSE it by simply BEING it. However, being human and thus dependent on the energy of other entities to stay alive, we simply have no way of ever being STO in this life. Yet we can approach it as close as possible, so that in our next existance, we may be true STO.

Also, to get a glimpse of how far STS goes for its own ends, look no further than US government, and their psychopathic mass murdering of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, for their own greedy agenda, as they lie through their teeth to make themselves appear "honorable, humble, and kind" when in reality they are simply greedy, and are very very good at lying (Hitler was too). Do you really think that if Iraqis fell into denial and said "I refuse to believe that the great USA would ever do such a thing" that this belief would SAVE THEM? No, but the more they wishfully think, the more SHOCKED they will later be, when reality inevitably "bites" them, as it has.

Don't confuse reality with hollywood movies, where "bad guy" run around talking like bad guys, looking like bad guys, and laughing like Dr Evil. False. In reality, the most psychopathic and selfish people create the illusion for everyone else that most people will easily believe, because most people are not capable of such cold, psychopathic actions and thoughts, and mechanically assume that their "leaders" are just like them, that they'd never do something so "horrible", and to even consider such a thing is "treason"! However, our "leaders" know our own nature better than we know ourselves, and while we deny our own nature to ourselves and bask in comfortable illusions, they continue with their agenda, and thus we remain their slaves because of our own denial of reality. This is why truth sets you free, and this is why lies keep you imprisoned and controlled. And no one can be deceived except with their permission, because they'd rather believe a "feel-good" self-calming lie, than to face the possibility of a very painful (emotionally, psychologically, physically, etc) reality, that may shatter all their "cherished beliefs", which inevitably HURTS.

When will humanity grow up?

As someone wise once said, "wishful thinking gets ya every time!".

[edit on 9-1-2005 by lilblam]

er double post sorry, browser crashed.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by lilblam]

lilblam:

I think, your thoughts are very disturbing and fragmented.

You cannot aim at a particular person, and you cannot 'investigate' his mind as an evidence, like a policeman. There is no way for that. Seeing the nature of human thinking like a lifeless object, is also impossible. In order to see into another person's mind, a very close cooperation is required, and the wishful thinking always takes place, just like every part of your thought. Whenever you extract any part of your thoughts from your cooperation, any person will "feel" that, and he will know that you are up to something bad!

The nature of those sick psychos you have just mentioned, is very different to people's close relationship, and a private way of thinking. I have no comment on that, because the ignorant mass was always responsible for what happened at those times.

In fact, any murderous event/thinking IS an abnormal way of life, and is very rare. Killers don't just come out of nowhere, and start killing everyone. They have to evolve in a disturbing community, and learn to live a life like that.

Also, those who have the chance to manipulate the human community, have to learn to do that in life, usually celebrities and anyone in the viewpoint of a nation can really learn techniques to do that. An average citizen has no chance at all to manipulate people by any means.

Better stop reading horror, because that's not good for you at all.

For lilblam

1. So by gaining knowledge of this we basically gain nothing. There is no way we can separate us from this patterns and will "forever" be harvested by these entites?
2. I don't know if you have explained thsi already, but I'll ask. I still don't know how you "saw the truth". Did you see it as a vision, or did it just seem to logical to be false, did you dream it or did you see it with your own eyes(these entities for example).
3. Stupid question maybe, but if all goes in a cycle that means you would have existed in a previous cycle?

Originally posted by Phood
Very interessting.
I haven't read all of your posts, read all on the first pages, so this might already have been brought up.
1. What will we gain by knowing the truth when the "final hour" comes and we're all "rebooted"?

Well if you were in 3rd grade and didn't know it, would it not benefit you to KNOW it so you have an idea of when it "ends" and what you might need to do to graduate? The only reason the massess are helpless is because they lack the knowledge of what they can do to get out of this mess, though most people actually PREFER this because "ignorance is bliss" (anyone can seek and find this knowledge, it's just most people actually PREFER this existance, this is where they FIT because of their inner nature), because it's comfortable not being responsible for your own destiny and having "society" dictate what your options are for existance, because these options are presented as "stable" and "secure", and a sense of security (even a false sense of security) is more comfortable than facing the reality that there never was nor will be "security" except through our own KNOWLEDGE, not someone else's "protection". This "knowledge" cannot be acquired in the entropic state most people are in, meaning, conditioned, full of beliefs and programming, and mechanical, among other things. But choosing "Creativity" instead of "Entropy" (both esoteric references) is not easy, and contradicts your whole previous existance in all its aspects - which is not something most people are willing to do. But those who ARE, may have some chance to "get out" of this trap, by virtue of their own knowledge and awareness, because they'll no longer fit in this world.

2. Does, in this "alternate universe/dimension" or whatever to call it where the advanced beings controll us, the laws of physics apply(energy especially)?

Not our laws of physics. The "advanced beings" are not advanced technologically (well they are, but that's not the key difference here), their consciousness is simply more advanced than ours, and so they perceive reality from a higher perspective with a greater awareness, and are not bound by space, time, "physics" as we understand it, and other restrictions like "light speed". Energy of course exists, it goes to the core of all existance, though in different forms and for different purposes. Usually when people see UFO's, they have some sort of "erratic behavior" which does not comply with our laws of physics, because if we were the passangers and our laws applied, it seems we'd be splattered all over the insides of this "craft".

3. What will happen when we die, if you know that? Can we die?

I'll refrain here.

Originally posted by Phood
1. So by gaining knowledge of this we basically gain nothing. There is no way we can separate us from this patterns and will "forever" be harvested by these entites?
2. I don't know if you have explained thsi already, but I'll ask. I still don't know how you "saw the truth". Did you see it as a vision, or did it just seem to logical to be false, did you dream it or did you see it with your own eyes(these entities for example).

Let me answer: By gaining knowledge, you gain power over the actions near you (either friendly, or hostile). You can use this knowledge the way you want, as your heart allows that for you.

Seeing the truth requires you to see your entire lifetime right behind you. It depends on what kind of person you are, as I have written already. But it has been discussed.

Other ways of possible, that you are not aware of, just "feel" things. That's the way of nature.

Originally posted by Vertu
lilblam:

I think, your thoughts are very disturbing and fragmented.

What do you mean by "disturbing"? Who do they disturb and why? And which thoughts in particular?

You cannot aim at a particular person, and you cannot 'investigate' his mind as an evidence, like a policeman. There is no way for that. Seeing the nature of human thinking like a lifeless object, is also impossible.

What do you see is the nature of "investigating like a policeman", what limitations do you perceive this method has? What do you mean you cannot aim at a particular person, I'm not sure what this is in reference to - because you can aim at people if you wanna shoot them... And what makes you say that I'm comparing a human to a lifeless object, do you think I'm not "giving humanity its due" in some way, that I'm "leaving something out" in my analysis? The devil here is in the details, because I cannot really make out what exactly you mean when you say that I might associate "human thinking" with a "lifeless object". Perhaps it was my reference to entropy and the mechanical/reactionary state of existance of most people?

In order to see into another person's mind, a very close cooperation is required, and the wishful thinking always takes place, just like every part of your thought.

Wishful thinking is assumption, it is pretending to know what you do not for no other reason than because you prefer something to be true over something else. You can have an understanding of how humanity generally works, by understanding their inner nature, which comes from understanding your own nature and seeing it work in others when you do, because in many major ways, we're all very much alike. I'm not talking about knowing things that could only be known by personally knowing the person, but things that are universal and apply to everyone, which also exist and CAN be known. And these things have a very powerful influence and control over our decisions and choices, even if we're not aware of them - and most people are not. And it is by becoming aware of them do you then understand why people do what they do at a deeper level, and thus "SEE the unseen".

Whenever you extract any part of your thoughts from your cooperation, any person will "feel" that, and he will know that you are up to something bad!

I'm not sure what you're talking about here at all. Could you maybe phrase this differently? Also, as a sidenote, "bad" is subjective.

The nature of those sick psychos you have just mentioned, is very different to people's close relationship, and a private way of thinking. I have no comment on that, because the ignorant mass was always responsible for what happened at those times.

Ah, but our society encourages psychopathic behavior by rewarding it. Most of our relationships are nothing more than feeding off of each other's energy, though we tell many lies to ourselves that it has something to do with "love" and other illusory concepts that we rationalize as "good" and "right", without ever facing their true objective nature - just like we rationalize that our wars are "just" and "good" and "right" without ever facing their true nature of being nothing but senseless bloodbaths for power and control. But I won't "argue" this, either you see it or you don't. However, "sick" is subjective, try not to toss in personal judgement, because that clouds objectivity and often renders you unable to see what is happening objectively. The difference between our leaders and ourselves is not really so "great", it is mostly that we DENY our nature to ourselves, and they embrace it. Most Americans for example, have no problem with mass murder of thousands of innocent people, if that murder is somehow justified as being "good" and "right" - so their conscience SLEEPS if they tell themselves that it's "for the best" - even if that's just an illusion created for them by their "leaders" who know how to control them this way. They are no different than those who REALISE that what they are doing is nothing more than killing others for power and control, but the only difference is that one group understands and accepts it, and the other group is in denial yet does it anyway!

At the root, it is all still service-to-self, not "sick" or "evil" or "wrong", just service to self. Because all our lives we manipulate and control others for selfish purposes, we "possess" others and jealously maintain their status as "only belonging to us", and as we attach to things, ideas, and people, we utilize those close to us as "energy conduits" - and most of our relationships revolve around trying to feed off of one another's energy, nothing more. Our conditioning/programming of course will mechanically jump to deny any such idea, because it just sounds so "cold" and "horrible", but as I mentioned earlier, we are mechanical and entropic beings that simply "react" to ideas that "threaten" our "comfortable established world view", and will deny it simply because considering this painful possibility is not "comfortable". And some truths, as I also already mentioned, will be much more shocking and painful to SEE than others - but it doesn't change the fact that they are true. However, we cannot even honestly QUESTION these things because all our thoughts are not our own, and our conditioning will not allow us to be truly open, they will "predetermine the conclusion" for us.

Which is why I always say "truth cannot be given" - does it matter if I tell you that all your relationships are for the most part nothing more than just you and others feeding on negative energy from one another, as you blissfully cover this with "warm and fuzzy" illusions to disguise the true nature of your own existance? No it doesn't, the only way to ever find out something like that is through personal effort at seeking truth, at knowing yourself and seeking to see objective reality as it truly is. Otherwise you'll be in constant denial as you cling to your cherished beliefs and lifelong conditioning, and all kinds of emotions may spring up like "anger" aimed at the source that dares to suggest something as "absurd" as this, and the message itself will be left untouched.

Ignorance does not make anyone less responsible for their actions. This is part of the reason why ignorance endangers, but knowledge protects. That "paranoid fear" of "potential danger" and willingness to kill any "threat to our existance" even if it's illusory, is in all of us, and is easily manipulated by our "leaders" who understand this part of ourselves and know how to use it to their advantage, to have us support pretty much anything they want to do by keeping us in constant fear with PLAUSIBLE lies which have no basis in reality, but that doesn't stop the majority from believing them anyway.

In fact, any murderous event/thinking IS an abnormal way of life, and is very rare. Killers don't just come out of nowhere, and start killing everyone. They have to evolve in a disturbing community, and learn to live a life like that.

No one "comes out of nowhere" and killing is not as "bad" as you judge it to be. Because if you're going to be subjective, I can just as easily call anyone who kills any animal for any reason an "evil murderer" even if it's just for food. So "killers" are not really so "different" from you or me, they just have rationalized for themselves what they are about to do, and have decided that the consequences are not large enough. Sometimes a "consequence" does not have to be external, it can be as simple as your own conscience.

An average citizen has no chance at all to manipulate people by any means.

Another thing I categorically disagree with you on. "Average people" manipulate one another ALL THE TIME (is there even such a thing as "average"?). It is as simple as a Preacher in church who uses people's emotions to get them to do what he says and believe what he says, or simple things like "peer pressure", or even your every-day TV commercials. Manipulation is one of the most common ways people get what they want in life, and in fact, most of it is done without conscious realisation that you're doing it, simply because you've been conditioned to do it as you observe others do it and learn that it "works".

Better stop reading horror, because that's not good for you at all.

You cannot judge what is good for me or anyone else! However, paying attention to the "uncomfortable" reality is required if you wish to perceive reality as it truly is, and ignoring anything that you perceive as "horrible" means ignoring part of reality, and thus, preventing yourself from SEEing what is right in front of you.

Kind of like those New Agers who only concentrate on "Love and Light" and think they "create their own reality" by only thinking "happy thoughts". This is a self-calming lie, it is wishful thinking at an extreme level, and as a result they are simply ignoring all that does not "please them", all that they judge as "wrong" or "bad" or "evil" or "horrible" - and so end up seeing only a TINY PORTION of reality, which means they only KNOW a tiny portion of reality, as they refuse to accept the existance of that which they willfully ignore. And this only makes them so much easier to manipulate and control.

Knowledge protects, but ignorance indangers. Ignoring reality does not make it "go away".

[edit on 9-1-2005 by lilblam]

Great discussion, fascinating!

Originally posted by Phood
For lilblam

1. So by gaining knowledge of this we basically gain nothing. There is no way we can separate us from this patterns and will "forever" be harvested by these entites?

Only harvested because of ignorance, because you allow it to happen. No one can control you without your permission. We allow ourselves to be fed upon, because we align ourselves with the same "forces" that feed upon us - as we are just like them. The only way to get out is by gaining the necessary knowledge which allows you to understand why you are trapped in the first place, and what you must do to become free. Yet most do not realise they are food, and our own nature (service to self, and all that that implies) basically means we automatically become pawns in a much larger hierarchy, even if we're not aware of the hierarchy.

Knowledge is power, it allows you to become aware of choices you were not aware of before, and so gives you greater free will to choose. You can use this power to either control others who do not yet have this knowledge, or to only control yourself and so become the architect of your own destiny, instead of being the result of conditioning and mechanical thoughts programmed into you by something else.

2. I don't know if you have explained thsi already, but I'll ask. I still don't know how you "saw the truth". Did you see it as a vision, or did it just seem to logical to be false, did you dream it or did you see it with your own eyes(these entities for example).

Research and critical thought. Though I was overcome by a sudden drive to seek truth, which was not really present in me before. As a result, I had to stumble over many illusions and then get out of each one before I arrived at certain truths, and it was not easy nor quick.

3. Stupid question maybe, but if all goes in a cycle that means you would have existed in a previous cycle?

Just because 3rd grade is repeated every year, does not mean you exist in 3rd grade each time it repeats, though it does mean that those who "fit" in 3rd grade are there each time. And it is possible that you had to stay back a few times because you did not learn your lessons and failed to graduate, so it is therefore possible that you or I were indeed here last time as well. The only way to graduate and move on, is through knowledge. As of now, humanity is manipulated into willingly (and ignorantly) feeding their own "herders", because humanity obliges and complies with the "rules" of the system, as our nature is STS and thus we are willing to sacrifice a lot, even knowledge, in order to get what we "want", or rather, what we are conditioned to want.

You know, like how you lure a fish to a hook? You usually do not just dive in and grab the fish - you let it come to you by its own will, completely ignorant of what is happening - just as humanity has been kept in ignorance and compliance without even realising it.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by lilblam]