[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
yeah they said she sent him a list of critics comments from which he responded to in his emails, i think however though that even the selection of critiques was just very ill conceived. like i said, why pick some very unworthy and heresay critiques to respond to when there are far more pertinent things he couldve addressed that would have lent him far more credibility if he had played his responce better, and the lack of new evidence though i know its been said a few times already is just another nail in the coffin i think.

Because if she sent them to him right after the first images came out and he responded to them in one day's time, than obviously she wouldn't have had a ton of critics to choose from at that point. And the questions one of the critics ask are completely ludicrous, as if he knows how alien technology is supposed to work and how the alien's logic would be implemented in building a flying disc.

Originally posted by Bunch

Originally posted by Springer
Has anyone noticed the "new emails" are dated JUNE 27, 2007? LMH sat on them for a MONTH?!

Am I missing something here?

Springer...

May be he borrowed John Titor TT machine.

Why you go to the trouble of trying to refute people if you know that what you saying is TRUTH? If I'm giving you info that I know is real and you dont want to believe it, then don't, me personally could care less. He said that he want it to get this thing of his chest before meeting he's maker, then I dont see what would motivate him to start refuting people to prove his story right and please lets not forget that he said he has a significant amount of documents and photos, why bother refuting people, just put more info out and stop with analogies or don't even bother to respond.

I just laugh when he mentions the "frisking", I just have a mental picture of all the PACL employees standing in line waiting to be "frisk".

And ISAAC pass trough the line with his VIP pass thinking: "What a bunch of loosers"

Thats some high tech security procedure right there, the best our tax payer money could buy at the time.

He did say that he was responding to these inquiries as a favor to LMH otherwise he wouldn't have bothered...i just can't help to think that if this isaac guy is fo real, he's never releasing anything else in fear of being drawn and quartered...again

Originally posted by Bunch
Why you go to the trouble of trying to refute people if you know that what you saying is TRUTH? If I'm giving you info that I know is real and you dont want to believe it, then don't, me personally could care less. He said that he want it to get this thing of his chest before meeting he's maker, then I dont see what would motivate him to start refuting people to prove his story right and please lets not forget that he said he has a significant amount of documents and photos, why bother refuting people, just put more info out and stop with analogies or don't even bother to respond.

Again, I say this as I said yesterday. Some of you people complain if Isaac responds or if he doesn't; if he says something or if he doesn't say something; if he says this but not that. No matter how much information he provided, even he provided you with 1000 pages of the CARET document, people would continue to say things like "oh, well they just had more time to work on it now so they just made the rest." Do you see what I'm saying? For some people, no amount of information whether big or small is going to be adequate either way.

[edit on 7/28/2007 by pjslug]

Originally posted by roadgravel
I have to agree with those who wonder why he addresses the critic by posters versus posting new info. He's taking another chance with his identity. Tougher crowd then he thought, maybe?

[edit on 7/28/2007 by roadgravel]

Quite simply, because if that e-mail was only from a day after the initial report, obviously he wouldn't have shared any new information. He said that was all the info he was going to share for now. 24 hours later doesn't change that fact. If the e-mail was sent yesterday, then that is a different story but from what LMH had said, it certainly sounds like it was from a month ago.

Originally posted by alevar
More good points. The more I read the new Earthfiles stuff, the more I agree that Isaac is suddenly a bit out of character. He's gone from being Mr. Laid-Back-Informant to sounding like one of us, bickering on a message board.

It makes the whole thing seem more "human" and less enigmatic, which tells me that we've got some hoaxers out there somewhere that don't want to see their baby fall apart.

Well sure, because when he posted his initial fortunecity site he hadn't been jumped on by anyone yet. Being jumped on by people, whether telling the truth or not, will always raise a defensive flag and you will try to make your issue more understood. This is how I would act initially, and this is how most people would act when being questioned or intimidated. After enough practice dealing with conspiracies on ATS, you get used to it and learn how to control your flow of emotions. But Isaac wasn't prepared for anything of that nature as he probably doesn't reside in these forums and battle with people on ideas. He just wanted to share information he knew and now he is being attacked for it. If I were him, I wouldn't be trying to prove anything to anyone on a 1-to-1 basis. I would release all the information he has all at once and then respond to questions if some arise. From Isaac's perspective, he's telling the truth. So why would he need to convince anyone otherwise? The truth is the truth no matter how you try to slice it or dissect it. So if he's telling the truth, of course he can just blow the critic off. Look at the stupid things the critic was claiming to know, thinking he understood the mind of an alien.

Originally posted by pjslug
Again, I say this as I said yesterday. Some of you people complain if Isaac responds or if he doesn't; if he says something or if he doesn't say something; if he says this but not that. No matter how much information he provided, even he provided you with 1000 pages of the CARET document, people would continue to say things like "oh, well they just had more time to work on it now so they just made the rest." Do you see what I'm saying? For some people, no amount of information whether big or small is going to be adequate either way.

[edit on 7/28/2007 by pjslug]

I dont think anybody will not be happy with more information, now if you just need a couple of pics with a vague story to believe in something that your prerogative.

Thats why Ufology is a pseudoscience, because it always lower its standards when we talk about proof, corroboration and the like. We are not discussing here if UFO's are real or not, just if this particular story is truth or not, so people should leave their believes at the door when they come in here and just analyze what is been presented.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by alevar
Kinda lame, to go from admittedly interesting photos and stuff to a bunch of lame arguments back and forth. And I also agree with everyone that even when he's responding to a direct question, there's still just something so empty and almost pointless about his arguments. It's as if he's trying to prove a point without actually saying anything.

Well people have suddenly disregarded or failed to mention any of the information he did put in his responses, talking about the equipment at the time and other things like that. Why are you failing to see that? You are completely crapping on his responses without analyzing the parts of them that could help to authenticate the time frame and technological "wizardry" of that era.

Actually I did post a link to PARC that gave a timeline from the 70's to present within that link it corroborates with a lot of technology that he claimed. in my other post i stated where CARET was proabably located, and supplied 2 quotes/link to back it up, but unfortunately no even bothered looking.

I would suspect that if Isaac saw the drone images on Earthfiles then he probably has been visiting the site for some time. If he has that interest then there is a good chance he has been a member of at least a forum or two.

I feel his reaction follows that angle more than someone who just suddenly discovered what can happen when this type of information is posted on the internet. He is just doing what is normal in forums. His response sounds like an internet forum poster. He jumped right into this whole thing waist deep with a website, images, and just the right amount of information released.

Originally posted by agent violet
Actually I did post a link to PARC that gave a timeline from the 70's to present within that link it corroborates with a lot of technology that he claimed. in my other post i stated where CARET was proabably located, and supplied 2 quotes/link to back it up, but unfortunately no even bothered looking.

Yes, and I am going to check it out. Thank you. That post wasn't directed towards everyone, it was just a response to those who seem to enjoy crapping on the information more than investigating it.

[edit on 7/28/2007 by pjslug]

i would first off like to say that if isaac posted 1000 pages of information i doubt we would be debating this right now. i think initially the persona we know as "isaac" had many of us by the throat and we all held our breath waiting for more evidence to surface. what he stated in his second communication was no where near the level of awe we experienced in his first and i stand by my point that if he wanted to disprove this critic he responded to he would have just simply posted something that was relevant and in stride with the level of magnitude his original documents were.
secondly, i feel that if he did get scared about being quartered it was probably because of the types of scenarios that could happen in any forum but particularly here, with engi type. i can see and have said so, why he would be reticent to post any more with the level of dedication this particular thread has received and the check on engi types ip suggests that if he did post here he could get his ip discovered and we all know hes trying to avoid all that entirely. assuming he was the real deal.
I say to "isaac" if he/she is watching our threads:

GIVE US SOMETHING, JUST ONE MORE SOMETHING, THATS AMAZING AND ON PAR WITH YOUR ORIGINAL EVIDENCE, JUST RELEASE IT AS YOU SEE FIT, BUT GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN REALLY SINK OUR FANGS INTO.

if he has as much documentary evidence as his original writings claim, he could surely find something that would not hurt his anonymity that we could marvel over....something.

I'm not crapping on anything. I'm just pointing out the following:

1) For a guy who "just wants to get stuff off his chest", and then presumably lay low to avoid retribution from the PTB, this guy sure doesn't mind throwing down the gauntlet and engage in some good ol' fashioned internet arguing.

2) Whether there's good reason or not, I find it dissapointing that we seem to be transitioning from the fun, multimedia phase of the allleeeegggeeeeed hoax to what appears to be bickering back and forth between Isaac and his detractors. That's just my take on how it seems to be panning out.

3) While there's some interesting stuff in his response, there are still ZERO facts that actually corroborate ANYTHING. Like others have pointed out, why hasn't he told us what the name of the fake company was? Or where it was located? What about some kind of genuinely verifiable scientific commentary? ANYTHING.

My point this whole time has been that, while the things he and the witnesses have said often sound plausible and reasonably consistent, there's still no way to separate them from something that could have just been made up by someone with adequate imagination and knowledge. I'm still waiting for ANYONE involved in this case to make ANY comment that actually COULDN'T have simply been made up by a hoaxer. Even the slightest detail would make me happy if it were simply the kind of detail that would REQUIRE this to be real. Again, like pointing out a real company facade that really did exist in Palo Alto during the specified years at a certian address. Or some kind of scientific or mathematical data that someone in academia or industry could back up as something truly significant. ANYTHING.

In fact, here's how I want my stance on this issue to be remembered:

My point is not that this is definitely a hoax. My point is that it's suspicious (and in my mind, TOO suspicious), that the evidence so far would fit perfectly whether it was real or not.

In a truly real story, eventually you're going to come across something that just wouldn't make sense in a hoax. For instance, that recent UK sighting, with all of the highly accomplished career pilots going on the record to discuss some huge thing in the sky. While I can't say for sure they saw real alien spacecraft, I can definitely say that whatever this is, it's highly unlikely to be a hoax.

Or the O'Hare thing. Again, while it wasn't necessarily aliens, we can all agree that it's profoundly unlikely for ALL of those witnesses, again, including highly qualified airline personnel, to be making this up or simultaneously delusional. So we can at least agree that it's not an intentionally fabricated hoax.

But when we come to the drone/Isaac story, as sexy and mysterious as it is, we can't hide from the fact that all of this COULD have been hoaxed, quite plausibly, unlike the above two stories. No point in this story so far has been reached at which we'd say "Ah ha! No matter what's going on, THIS detail proves at least that it's highly unlikely to be an intentional hoax." Instead, we get the following formula for every major "release":

- Vague stories that can't be corroborated one way or the other

- Evidence in the form of photos and documents that may look nice, but are still TOO hoaxable to be considered smoking guns.

- THAT DAMNED ANONYMITY. Again, Chad, Ty, Isaac, and everyone that's actually given us some kind of photo/document remains a faceless personality behind an email address.

- Just enough details to get the point across, but never enough to do a real, proper investigation and put it to bed one way or the other.

O'Hare and the UK incident are major events, but they're not half as detailed as Isaac/CARET. And yet still, they manage to easily escape the hoax stigma, because the people involved and forthcoming and visible. They face honest scrutiny and don't appear to be hiding anything. Meanwhile, the drone case is OVERFLOWING with details, and yet somehow, after alllllllllll this time, none of the people who have PROVIDED these amazing details have come anywhere near the same level of public openness as these other two cases.

Listen, I'm happy to go back and forth with the believers and explain my position, but I'm tired of being made out to be a debunker every time I post something. I try to post a lot of detail and be very verbose in my explanations, because most debunkers tend to just state their point like gospel and then skip town. But I really think you guys aren't reading what I'm saying, at least not entirely, because while I don't expect you to agree, I do expect you to understand that my position on this matter is very sincere and has a lot of sound reasoning behind it.

So just give me some credit here and stop assuming I'm out to get everyone.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by alevar]

alevar the new info did mention where CARET was at, indirectly
as i wrote in some of my previous posts it states that "....Given that CARET was 'next door' to XPARC ...." and in my other link that i also posted above i stated with proof and a timeline including tech developments, where XPARC was during that time 70's/80's
"...PARC's current site at 3333 Coyote Hill Road in Palo Alto, California "

so we now know that CARET was somewhere near coyote hill road, palo alto CA

why didnt you read the other posts about this that i posted?

I don't quite understand why Isaac even "uses" or even "updates" LMH, C2C or Earthfiles.com at this point. Sure it was a good starting avenue to get the story he has to tell out there to the public being that he saw the "Chad" and others have started in with the Drone sightings but now over a month later why does Isaac feel that he even still "needs" to communicate with LMH through emails or interviews. He has his fortune city website so why don't he just post "updates" and any responses he has to give to the public there? Why go through all the work of having a website made up called Isaaccaret.com then stop using that website for anything other then having the same old initial story and photos/documents on it and thats it? If I was Isaac I would be talking to the public on my own site and posting responses to the public on my own site and I would keep uploading new documents and photos that I had on my own website and basically just do everything there instead of having to rely on LMH or C2C to get my message and information out.

I do think that the if LMH did some how find out that the whole Isaac story was a hoax that she wouldn't come right out and say it but instead try and carry the whole story as long as she could before finally saying something like "oh guess what we at C2C just discovered hoax proof". The reason being is that as long as this Isaac story isn't officially debunked then she's getting more ratings, more popularity, more site traffic, more attention and more anything then she has had in awhile which helps her "business" in more ways then one and to drop the "hoax bomb" too soon would certainly lower all the extra free publicity and attention shes been getting since this all started. The Isaac story is her current cash cow and shes going to milk it as long as she can, IMO.

The "outside parties" Isaac talks about seems really suspicious to me because it's like saying to these people/agencies, "OK here is some top Government quarterly reports that prove we are reverse engineering anti-gravity alien technology that does exist in our hands for you to use BUT we are sorry that after admitting this to you and giving you proof that we at CARET can't allow you to see certain paragraphs or sentences in this highly non-stamped Classified Government report because though we allow you to know about UFOS we can't allow you to know everything about UFOS. Now go use this report and don't show anyone and good luck on your research and hopefully the blacked out portions you wont need to use for your part in the studies, may the force be with you." I can just hear the "outside parties" person(s) looking at all the pages and getting to the blacked out part and saying "What the *bleep*! " The blacked out parts "excuse" don't make sense to me. Who would be the ones who would need these documents? Military branches? Area 51 employees? Lockheed Martin? Boeing? If any of these is correct then to me blacking out portions of the report CARET is handing it over to wouldn't make much sense.

Im still on the fence but it's "updates" and the actions from LMH that leans me towards the side of hoax but I guess she's the one more "in the know" then I am.
Bzzzzzzz

*note for Isaac* Do us ALL a favor ... email Springer and let him handle, declassify and help you with your information if you can't do it by yourself. It sure will be better taken care of then LMH. (sorry for volunteering you Springer but hopefully you understand "we" need answers. )

Originally posted by BuzzingOn
I don't quite understand why Isaac even "uses" or even "updates" LMH, C2C or Earthfiles.com at this point. Sure it was a good starting avenue to get the story he has to tell out there to the public being that he saw the "Chad" and others have started in with the Drone sightings but now over a month later why does Isaac feel that he even still "needs" to communicate with LMH through emails or interviews.

I think that is a good point.

Originally posted by pjslug
Well people have suddenly disregarded or failed to mention any of the information he did put in his responses, talking about the equipment at the time and other things like that.

Isaac Email
We just had far less features and everything was a hell of a lot slower.

But the point I'm trying to make is that while our method of documentation was somewhat advanced for its time, and also somewhat uncommon, it was hardly unattainable by a sufficiently motivated, financed, and well-connected organization.

Everything else before that alludes to technology but he never says what it is that they used. If he wanted to put that topic to sleep he could have dropped a name or two about the actual equipment. Sounds like someone not wanting to outright state an untruth. Just dodging the question.

I am not doubting that the tech existed.

Originally posted by agent violet
why didnt you read the other posts about this that i posted?

Why didn't you read what LMH posted?

It was a "professional" who wrote in to LMH who said that, not Isaac. Unless we're to believe that LMH is now in contact with multiple PACL researchers (something I'm sure she would have publicized quite heavily), then this isn't coming from an authoritative source.

That said, his point is still valid, and since he obviously didn't work for PACL, what he meant by "next door" was "in the general vicinity of", not literally one address over to the right or left. He's just trying to say that PACL appears to have been close enough to XPARC to share some technological luxuries and insights. That's all.

Isaac himself has yet to say anything even half as precise as "next door", much less giving us an actual address.

With all due respect, please make sure you're not misreading something before you accuse me of the same.

Originally posted by roadgravel
Everything else before that alludes to technology but he never says what it is that they used. If he wanted to put that topic to sleep he could have dropped a name or two about the actual equipment. Sounds like someone not wanting to outright state an untruth. Just dodging the question.

I am not doubting that the tech existed.

Precisely! This is what I'm trying to say! He makes very good "general" arguments, by saying that the technology probably existed at the time based on all of these similar but ultimately unrelated facts, but never actually cuts to the chase and tells us what their technology actually was!

This is the formula I'm trying to point out-- he gives us all the detail and information in the world about OTHER things, but then dodges the question entirely when it's time to explain HIS things.

I have no doubt either that these reports COULD have been made at the time. But until he tells us something we can VERIFY, such as even a single actual detail about the technology they were using, I still won't be able to accept that his particular documents are genuine.

Everything else before that alludes to technology but he never says what it is that they used. If he wanted to put that topic to sleep he could have dropped a name or two about the actual equipment. Sounds like someone not wanting to outright state an untruth. Just dodging the question.

I am not doubting that the tech existed.


its possible if they were on the cutting edge of technology, that a piece of equipment they used might pinpoint which group of people were involved at the time. say only one or two known pieces of copier were out, and it was at one particular office or lab, he may be afraid of being traced thru that.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by sheila947]

Originally posted by agent violet
ok so if PACL existed we will now know where it was/is at

as quoted by the 'professional' on LMH's website: "...Given that CARET was next door to XPARC I see nothing unusual in the quality or layout of the documents and any skepticism raised on that account should be declared completely invalid..."

and here is where XPARC was in the late 70-80's
as quoted from the website link i posted above:
"...PARC's current site at 3333 Coyote Hill Road in Palo Alto, California is completed in February at a size of 100,000 square feet..."

therefore PACL must have been located within the vicinity of coyote hill road in palo alto, so instead of giving up lets get to the bottom of this.

alevar so as you can see, in my first post i did read what LMH stated.
but never mind i really dont want to go back-and-forth with you.
i just wanted to show you i did read what she had to say, and that i know it was a 'professional' as i obviously stated in my first (above) post.