The Pope is a Fake

So,
according to RCC dogma the Pope is "The Vicar of Christ on Earth"

One of the basic tenets of RCC is that its priests are celibate - so I wonder if anyone can tell me how this happens:

# Saint Peter, traditionally the first Pope, was married, known to have taken his wife along on his apostolic/mission journeys (1 Cor. 9:5).
# Pope St. Hormisdas (514–523) was married and widowed before ordination. He was the father of Pope Silverius. [1]
# Pope Adrian II (867–872) was married, before taking orders, and had a daughter.
# Pope Sergius III (904–911) was supposedly the father of Pope John XI by Marozia (Source: Liber Pontificalis, Liutprand of Cremona).
# Pope John XII (955–963) (deposed by Conclave) was said to have turned the Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano into a brothel and was accused of adultery, fornication, and incest (Source: Patrologia Latina).[2]
# Pope Clement IV (1265–1268) was married, before taking holy orders, and had several children.
# Pope Pius II (1458–1464) had several illegitimate children.[citation needed]
# Pope Innocent VIII (1484–1492) had several illegitimate children.
# Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503) had a notably long affair with Vannozza dei Cattanei before his papacy, by whom he had his famous illegitimate children Cesare and Lucrezia. A later mistress, Giulia Farnese, was the sister of Alessandro Farnese, who later became Pope Paul III. Rumors of Alexander's sexual activity were even more wild — see Banquet of Chestnuts. He fathered a total of seven children.
# Pope Julius II (1503–1513) had three illegitimate daughters.
# Pope Clement VII (1523–1534) was probably the father of Alessandro de' Medici, whom he made Duke of Florence.
# Pope Paul III (1534–1549) held off ordination in order to continue his promiscuous lifestyle, fathering four illegitimate children by his mistress. His nickname was "Cardinal Petticoat" because his sister Giulia had been Alexander VI's mistress. He made his illegitimate son Pier Luigi Farnese the first Duke of Parma.
# Pope Pius IV (1559–1565) had several illegitimate children.
# Pope Gregory XIII (1572–1585) had an illegitimate son before he took holy orders

So no wonder this happened:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Don't do as I do, do as I say.............

Answers on a postcard please.


[edit on 22/6/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by budski
So,
according to RCC dogma the Pope is "The Vicar of Christ on Earth"

That statement alone is an affront to God.

This OP smacks of someone upset with a religion.

Why not come out and openly share why you are targeting the
Pope ? Or, Catholics ? Or, religion in general ?

Or, is it just the Catholics ?

Want my honest opinion ?

Leaders of any Faith, and the majority of their followers are hypocrites.

Yes, I said it.

Take into account the restrictions placed upon any religion by it's Book,
sacred documents, stellae...name it.

Then ask any adherent of said religion to honestly profess to complying
to EACH and EVERY tenet that religion holds to.

I'd wager only .1% could answer honestly, that they actually adhere to
EACH and EVERY tenet.

Great topic, and I'd like to see more responses.

Regards,
Lex

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Lexion]

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by budski
So,
according to RCC dogma the Pope is "The Vicar of Christ on Earth"

That statement alone is an affront to God.

I agree,
to be so arrogant as to presume to speak with gods voice is a bit of an affront

And now the catholics are going to try and derail, and deflect and tag team - because they don't like their church being criticized

Well, there's no criticism here, merely a look at the truth

I think the RCC dogma is flawed by expecting celibacy of its clergy, but that being said, according to your own data its been nearly 500 years since a major misfit pope. I would also like to add that although a lot of religious people are dramatically flawed, most are actually TRYING to uphold some code of ethics.

It's better to have standards that you fall short of than no standards at all.

Originally posted by Lexion
This OP smacks of someone upset with a religion.

Why not come out and openly share why you are targeting the
Pope ? Or, Catholics ? Or, religion in general ?

Or, is it just the Catholics ?

Want my honest opinion ?

Leaders of any Faith, and the majority of their followers are hypocrites.

Yes, I said it.

Take into account the restrictions placed upon any religion by it's Book,
sacred documents, stellae...name it.

Then ask any adherent of said religion to honestly profess to complying
to EACH and EVERY tenet that religion holds to.

I'd wager only .1% could answer honestly, that they actually adhere to
EACH and EVERY tenet.

Great topic, and I'd like to see more responses.

Regards,
Lex

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Lexion]

Lex - this is a condemnation of all organised religion - there's thousands of examples of churchy people being hypocrites - and I mean that for every denomination of any faith

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I think the RCC dogma is flawed by expecting celibacy of its clergy, but that being said, according to your own data its been nearly 500 years since a major misfit pope. I would also like to add that although a lot of religious people are dramatically flawed, most are actually TRYING to uphold some code of ethics.

It's better to have standards that you fall short of than no standards at all.

Point taken - and a good point it is

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

The Pope is fake? This is my second reply tonight. I must have a low resistance to idiots today. NOT calling anyone an idiot..

1. And?

2 .Don't you think there is enough poo going on in the world today without this
kind of.....hmmm...bullnonsense.

3. Yeah, maybe he is. What are you going to do about it?

5. Oh, that should of been 4.

Chapter 8: The Jesuit Connection. Jesuit suppression of 1773 instigated by Masonry; Masonic infiltration of Catholic Church; Voltaire, Masonry, and anti-Catholicism (1726-1778); Masonic disinformation attracts Christians to Masonry, pits Protestants against Catholics, and discredits clergy; Pope John XXIII (1958) — a Masonic pope; after Vatican II (1962-1965) Jesuit generals join Freemasonry; South American Jesuits and Grand Orient Freemasonry cooperate in Liberation Theology; Masonic assassination of Pope John Paul I (1978); Freemasonry’s attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II (1981)

Taken from..

www.scarletandthebeast.com...

One thing that has always struck me as strange was that the Bible warns that there would come a time when some would depart from the faith and even forbid marriage. Catholic Priests are the only ones I know of that are required by their traditions to remain unmarried. Maybe Lutherans.. I'll have to check that.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (King James Version)

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

www.biblegateway.com...:1-3;&version=9;


nowhere does the Bible prohibit Christian ministers of God from marrying. The Catholic Church, however, has forbidden priests to marry since the 12th century.

I think a married priest has more moral values and merit than an unmarried cellibate person with hidden desires of God knows what!!!

We have seen repeatedly what has happened in the church, pediphiles, etc. Lots of them are married now and make better priests.

The Pope is supposed to catholics to be a representative of God on earth.
I'm a catholic, and i dont beleive it- there is only one God, and he aint the Pope.

Of course, I dont think the pope is God either. I just think people should try ellaborating or exposing whats going on within the strongholds of the Vatican and whose really in charge I guess?

George Bush is in charge of the Vatican.

I know this. Here is my evidence:

www.google.com....

Forever denying ignorance,

All Seeing Guy.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by All Seeing Guy]

[edit on 22-6-2007 by All Seeing Guy]

Originally posted by Sparky63
One thing that has always struck me as strange was that the Bible warns that there would come a time when some would depart from the faith and even forbid marriage.

One of many wrongs the catholic church is committing. I'm glad you see the connection.

Galatians 5:[9] A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.


Matthew16:[6] Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
[7] And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread......................
[11] How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
[12] Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees

Leaven in the Old Testament was symbolic for sin.


The doctrine of the catholic church is very corrupted. The forbidding to marry is one tip on the iceberg.


[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbrandt]

I think it best that you guys stop while you're behind.

I find that this thread is dramatically ignorant in points of Religion, Catholicism and Christianity.

Just as an example: One guy thinks that Lutherans may be forbidden to marry but has to check.

I beg that you all do a heck of a lot more research and then come back and try again.

No offense intended.

Originally posted by jbondo


Just as an example: One guy thinks that Lutherans may be forbidden to marry but has to check.

No offense intended.

Well since I was the guy that didn't know if Lutheran priests were allowed to get married, I guess I will respond to your post.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know every detail about every religion. But I don't think that really matters as far as this thread is concerned.

My observation regarding the fact that there is no scriptural command for Priests to remain single is valid and accurate.

And since the op was about Catholic Priests, marriage, and sex, I didn't feel that there was a need for me to do an exhaustive search of the marriage requirements of religions not being discussed here.

But I took your sage advise and did a little more research, and just in case there was anyone else out there that didn't know offhand what the Lutherans
teach regarding this matter. I offer this quote.

Celibacy of Clergy Clergy of The Lutheran Orthodox Church do not take a vow of celibacy and may be married or remain unmarried by their own choice. Here is our main point of disagreement with the Church of Rome.

www.orgsites.com...

I have never talked to a Lutheran priest so I will admit I knew little about them. But I learned something new today.

The Popes have even acknowledged that this is a teaching that is not not found in the scriptures.

Pope Paul VI, in his encyclical Sacerdotalis Caelibatus (Priestly Celibacy, 1967), endorsed celibacy as a requirement for the clergy, but he admitted that “the New Testament which preserves the teaching of Christ and the Apostles . . . does not openly demand celibacy of sacred ministers . . . Jesus Himself did not make it a prerequisite in His choice of the Twelve, nor did the Apostles for those who presided over the first Christian communities.”—The Papal Encyclicals 1958-1981 (Falls Church, Va.; 1981), p. 204.

Originally posted by budski
...One of the basic tenets of RCC is that its priests are celibate - so I wonder if anyone can tell me how this happens: ...

First mistake:
The celibacy of the priests is of virtually no relevance to the proceedings of the church or the believers. It can be merely seen as a code of conduct. Again, Celibacy is blown way out of proportion here - it is not and has never been an essential part of the catholic faith or church.

Second:
The examples you name come from a time when the RCC was not only the governing body of believers, but instead one of the richest and most powerful entities with control over the near-complete known hemisphere. At that point in time, the church was from the ground up filled with opportunists abusing the possibilities this powerful system offered them - the true believers rather were to be found among the monks during these days. Positions within the church were traded between the powerful of all sides just like noble daughters were.

In general, Priesthood had more the form of being a separate nobility back then. It is known from about every superpower before the age of Enlightenment that they set up a more or less defined moral code but felt not bound to it themselves. So basically, you are trying to blame the church while in reality it were a bunch of opportunists abusing the safe haven and power the church gave them to widen their fortune and power. Needless to say, someone like that wouldnt care about celibacy either - but again, celibacy is an intra-church matter and is of little relevance.

Third, your assumption that celibacy and the clergy´s indifference to it would lead to child abuse:
It is a reality that very many priests are troubled with their sexual desires once or more at some point in their life - most of these episodes are about women though. There is an elaborate system of internal help for those that are troubled by it, the church itself ackownledges that the clergy consists of actual humans that are not free from fallacy. Celibacy is extremely hard work to adhere to.

The problem of priest-children abuse stems from the regular and intimate contact said priests have with children - most crimes are committed because of the opportunity to do so. this is actually where are good part of child abuse cases in general public originate - not because the individuals involved had a particular liking for children, but because it is so easy. Indicative of this is the very large proportion of intra-family crimes.

Which leads us to the conclusion that it again is not a failure of the church, but rather of individuals within it. By the way, I am an agnostic.

Not having sex does not make someone a pedophile. A pedophile is someone who has a sexual attraction primarily or exclusively to children. Priest getting married will not solve this issue because marriage has nothing to do with this disorder. Married people who are also pedophiles still molest children.

What I'd really like to know is if anyone can name a faith that doesn't have hypocrites in its ranks?

WHY is this thread even in ATS?
It’s just another anti-Catholic thread based upon
scripture interpretation that belongs in BTS.

Originally posted by Lexion
Why not come out and openly share why you are targeting the
Pope ? Or, Catholics ? Or, religion in general ?

He usually just targets the Catholics. It's his M.O.

Originally posted by budski
Well, there's no criticism here,

Whats the matter budski ?? Your last anti-Catholic rant was totally destroyed and your thread died. So you start another one? You are in denial if you actually believe your statement that you don't criticize the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by budski
And now the catholics are going to try and derail, and deflect ...

Actually ... we state facts and totally destroy your anti-Catholic biased statements. You just don't like it because you're bias and the fact that you don't understand Catholicism at all is revealed, over and over, for all to see. That's not 'derailing' .. it's EDUCATING.

Originally posted by zerotime
Not having sex does not make someone a pedophile.

That's 100% correct. This has been explained over and over on this board and it is BASIC psychology ... and yet the anti-Catholics just want to hang onto their false beliefs in this area... Kinda like a child refusing to give up a lollypop.

Budski – you have a habit of NOT READING what people post when it is in opposition to your bias. READ UP and educate yourself on what the Catholic Church believes the role of the pope is.

Originally posted by budski
One of the basic tenets of RCC is that its priests are celibate - so I wonder if anyone can tell me how this happens:

1 - People sin. Popes are people. Popes sin.

2 - Priestly celibacy is NOT a ‘basic tenet’ of Catholicism. It is NOT a doctrine or a dogma. It is a DISCIPLINE that can be changed according to the needs of the church. AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BEFORE - It is greatly based upon ST. Pauls words in scripture telling people who are called to serve God NOT to be married and therefore they can devote their entire attention to God and not have their attention split to having to take care of their own families.

Celibacy and the priesthood

You’ve been told the answers to ‘your question’ before. Obviously you didn’t bother to read the answers … or you dismissed them because they don’t agree with your bias. You are also stuck on celibacy – the sex thing -… why is that??

Celibacy is a gift
Error calling Celibacy a doctrine
Scripture and marriage
The old anit-Catholic fundamentalist claim that the Catholic discipline of celibacy is the doctrine of demons .

budski - Are you actually going to read what people post this time? Or are you just going to continue posting your anti-Catholic bias … facts be damned AGAIN?



[edit on 6/23/2007 by FlyersFan]