A Public Banning Today...

Originally posted by Sauron
reply to post by PandorasBox

 

Why don't you look it up for your self all you need to know is on ATS, it's not up to any of us to get it for you, For all I know you are Killtown or a troll judging by your name and just here to cause more crap.
Use the search function and stop your whining of show me show me,



[edit on 19/8/2007 by Sauron]

No, I'm not Killtown. "A troll judging by your name?" And what exactly is that suppose to mean? Do you recall the origins of Pandora?

Originally posted by elevatedone
Pandorasbox,

I accidentally edited one of your posts above. I meant to "quote" you.
I apologize. Please add your remarks back to that post if you want to.

The removed remarks are the same one's that Intrepid has quoted and replied to, so I don't need to reply to them now.

Again I'm sorry.

Thank you for your kindness. Apology accepted, however unnecessary.

Am I to assume that you are not going to answer my questions?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Help me out here a little bit will you?

Could you offer up which of the 9/11 Truth organizations he has affiliations with?

We don't all approach 911 Truth in the same manner. Personally, I am not overwhelmingly drawn to these forums. I prefer going to my local meetings and taking the message to the streets. That said, I may stick around for awhile knowing how much you all are enjoying my presence. We know that KT is anonymous as far as his 911 research and discourse, we don't know how or what he does in his real life. I have been quite impressed with his website, both the volume and content of relevant information and research surrounding uncovering the crimes of 911.

Now... that's hardly the actions of someone out to "censor" him. And clearly, since all of his posts remain, completely unedited, he, nor his theories, have never been censored on ATS. And as I've said more than once, he's welcome to approach us about re-instatement.

I hope that you do re-instate him. Although I am not certain how one would go about navigating this site to do that, in particularly in his case where he was completely banned.

I do, however, appreciate your response. You appear to be thoughtful and somewhat understanding in your rhetoric. This is completely opposed to some of your other less mature moderators.


[edit: fixed quote tags]

[edit on 20-8-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by intrepid
Crickets all of a sudden.

Hmm.

Sorry that I have a life... you may want to try it.

Originally posted by intrepid
Am I to assume that you are not going to answer my questions?

What questions?

My agenda? Asked and answered. My point... I thought that was clear.

I guess I hadn't noticed and other questions in between your insults.

Originally posted by PandorasBox

Originally posted by intrepid
Crickets all of a sudden.

Hmm.

Sorry that I have a life... you may want to try it.

A personal attack, how surprising. Much like this one:

I do, however, appreciate your response. You appear to be thoughtful and somewhat understanding in your rhetoric. This is completely opposed to some of your other less mature moderators.

You still haven't answered my question though. You're an associate of killtowns, how many sites has he been banned from?

That's not a hard question to answer.

Originally posted by PandorasBox
We don't all approach 911 Truth in the same manner. Personally, I am not overwhelmingly drawn to these forums. I prefer going to my local meetings and taking the message to the streets.

That's one way, and I've done that as well... often enough to realize that, six years later, it's not working as well as one would hope. And in fact. I've often argued that this has fostered an "angry activist" mentality that has actually ended up harming the movement. The average american is not moved by an emotional black-shirt-wearing 20-something shouting and carrying a "9/11 Was An Inside Job" banner... in fact, they're repulsed.

We know that KT is anonymous as far as his 911 research and discourse, we don't know how or what he does in his real life.

So we don't really know what he's doing "for the movement" then do we? Right now, "the movement" desperately needs a reevaluation of tactics in an effort to carry the message to the general public in a way that will be received. Six years later, nothing matters more than that. What is he doing for that approach?

I have been quite impressed with his website, both the volume and content of relevant information and research surrounding uncovering the crimes of 911.

There's an abundance of sites out there that vary in quality and earnestness. Lately, he's doling out a lot of blame for his inability to participate in other online venues. To me, this signals a recent downgrade in sincerity.

And in fact, one can apply this to the entire movement. Not long ago, one member opened my eyes to what is really going on out there. We have a splintered "movement" that has degraded into rival cult-like factions, each with their own pet theories, each faction disparaging the other factions for not subscribing to their theory. It's a mess and is creating a confusing hodgepodge of disparate messages.

I hope that you do re-instate him.

It's up to him, not us.

Although I am not certain how one would go about navigating this site to do that, in particularly in his case where he was completely banned.

His account is disabled, but he can still browse the site (and clearly he is since it looks like he's quoting some material since his banning). There's a contact us link on every page of the site.

You appear to be thoughtful and somewhat understanding in your rhetoric. This is completely opposed to some of your other less mature moderators.

We have the finest staff online. Our team is hand-picked for their dedication to our topics and long-term ideals of free and open discussions without fear of personal ridicule or attacks. Before they were upgraded to moderators, they were some of the most vocal and learned members... and just because they're staff, they haven't stopped being members with strong opinions, often based on years of experience.

You came here with predefined expectations shaped by someone with a grudge, and began "stirring up" issues within a thread where the only other "stirring up" has been at the hands of other new members who read what happened off-ATS, get the wrong opinion, and try to stir things up. If you're genuinely surprised by our staff's reaction to what appears to be another "off-site-drama-troll," then you're more naive than you come across.


In the end, if you take the time to notice, you'll discover we're the only conspiracy "discussion" site that does not limit the scope of 9/11-centric topics. Yet, our moderation tactics are perhaps the strictest of any discussion site to ensure that anyone feels comfortable bringing up any idea. Many end up taking issue with such tactics and assume that staff action is targeted at their ideas, and not behavior... we don't care... we steer our own course. And we know we're doing it right as we're constantly growing at an exponential rate.


That being said... why not shift gears and contribute to 9/11 topics?

Copied this post from another thread because I thought it could be used here too

People that believe in this theory(Killtowns) need to remember this saying

"Discretion is sometimes the better part of Valour"

I don't care how passionate you are on this theory, you need to get this through your heads EVEN IF TV FAKERY IS TRUE, IT DID NOT BRING DOWN THE TOWERS!

Please think long and hard about that.

Whatever was subbed in for the planes DID NOT bring down the towers, missle or whatever.
Everbody no matter what they believe about the CT is in agreement with this.
So since the "TV Fakery" line of reasoning does so much damage to the whole truth movement, shoud you not apply your discretion and FOCUS ON WHAT ACTUALLY brought the towers down.
This you can sell to newbies on 9/11 and many more will consider what the truth really is.
Starting someone off who is CT 9/11 virgin so to speak with the TV fakery tale will send them out of the movement for good. You must understand this for the good of the truth movement.

FOCUS ON what actually brought the WTC 1&2&7 down.
No TV fakery on WTC7 is there? Yet it came down too.

I wish people like killtown could get this through there thick heads.

I'm new here so I can't comment on what was said by the banned poster.

I do know however that the 911 truth movement seems to have been infiltrated and attacked from within. Part of this involves posting rediculous theories that can then be attacked everywhere, associating the authors with those of us who have real and evidence based suspicions about that terrible day's events.

If 911 was indeed part of a big plan to force changes on us all that we would not tolerate without an enabling act or a "New Pearl Harbour", then those who committed it would be more than capable of mobilising an entire army of disinformation operatives to hit boards like this one, post theories and use other sites to build a debunking groundswell.

I think that is what is happening here. I'm encouraged that they are so threatened by us that they feel the need to do this. They used to just ignore us, but now they actively mobilise to try to debunk us. It's hugely encouraging.

Someone, somewhere, is getting very worried by the 911 truth movement. We'll either force them to try the next stunt, or do something else that wakes people up. They are on a tightrope. They can't afford to make the wrong move next, or they'll risk everything they've achieved these past seven years.

Interesting times ahead.

Hi suraci and welcome to ATS...

Originally posted by suraci
I do know however that the 911 truth movement seems to have been infiltrated and attacked from within. Part of this involves posting rediculous theories that can then be attacked everywhere, associating the authors with those of us who have real and evidence based suspicions about that terrible day's events.

I understand this is a common refrain from those in the "movement" who are earnest about exposing the truth... but I'm not convinced. I've spent considerable "face time" with both those you'd consider "earnest" and those you'd consider "disinformationists" and there is a commonality.

The vast majority of people in regional 9/11 Truth groups focused on "street actions" are so-called "anti-establishment activists." These are people with a predisposition to have serious issues with "the government" no matter what is going on. Before 9/11, they were protesting the World Bank, and without 9/11, they'd be similarly focused on something else. This is not to detract from their passionate desire for change, but to understand the mind-set.

Within these types of groups, there has always been personalities who rise to the top on a wave of outlandish ideas and theories. While a majority of participants are selfless souls hoping to make a difference, a minority are egotistical loud-mouths looking to attract an audience and get noticed. While it certainly is possible that there may be infiltration (after all, we know the LA gang-wars of the '70's were started because of FBI COINTELPRO infiltration and manipulation of what were "community organizations"), these "egotistical loud-mouths" seem to be doing more credibility damage than any infiltration would do.

If 911 was indeed part of a big plan to force changes on us all that we would not tolerate without an enabling act or a "New Pearl Harbour", then those who committed it would be more than capable of mobilising an entire army of disinformation operatives to hit boards like this one, post theories and use other sites to build a debunking groundswell.

I tend to think that any "infiltration" has already happened, and is no longer an active tactic. Likely, there was some degree of "theory injection" going on, perhaps in the 1-2 year window after the attacks. I'm sure we all remember the TV commercials for websites with spectacularly far-reaching theories that were playing on cable networks about 18 months after 9/11/2001. Now... there's no trace of the ads or sites they pointed to... hmmmmm.

Hi SkepticOverlord.

What I was particularly thinking of apart from the poster who was banned is David Shayler, who appeared to join the push for the truth about 911, but promptly started talking about blue screens and urging everyone to carefully watch the last second as the plane hit. I took his advice and had another look, and was astonished to see a plane fly into a skyscraper. I immediately had my doubts about David, as I do about another David who seems to do great damage to the fight by linking it with all manner of jiggery pokery.

Both Davids now claim to be the new Messiah, so one of them must be barking.

There is so much about 911 that can be proven, there really is no need at all to include exotic theories that simply cannot and never will be proven. I prefer to stress the financial insider kinowledge, which could be traced in seconds to the originators if there was no conspiracy to hide the truth. Put options on airline stocks can be traced to the moneymen, and they had prior knowledge. A german company was as far as I know pursuing this line, but it has gone nowhere. This is just one area that can not be dismissed as easily blue screen etc. I'm sure the nonsense is put forward to eventually killl the drive for disclosure of who planned and orchestrated 911.

The disinfo legions are still out there, and in here, and I sense they've been unusually active these past few months. One other site in particular has been effectively paralysed by them, as it was starting to make headway, and people were listening. A post about 911 would be replied by many posters asking the same question - who really did it - and the hecklers were being outnumbered. That site, which is very mainstream and not at all alternative in any way, installed a new editor and the clampdown began.

I am very suspicious about people who talk about blue screens, lasers and the like. The latest I've heard is that red dots are clearly seen on the towers before impact, presumably a sniper somewhere lighting up the tower so the planes can find the target. It's yet more dilution of the real evidence, pulling the gullible away from the real and provable.

Finances, WTC 7, the laughing (secret) policemen, this is where they are vulnerable, IMHO, and that's where we should be attacking them.

And humour of course, never forget to be funny if possible. Hecklers hate to be ridiculed with humour.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
Holograms exist, but not on 9/11. People are suggesting that holograms were used to fool the world, but that just isn't the case.

[edit on 14-6-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

i agree. what kind of holograms would be used? its almost perposterous to get a perfect hologram anyways. even today

SkepticOverlord,

This seems to becoming a futile effort. It's obvious you guys do not want to prove you allegations against KT. I can't force you to. It's your forum and you're free to do what ever you want. I personally think you are discrediting yourselves with your "guilty until you prove your self innocent" policy here... especially since banned members are unable to prove themselves innocent because they are banned.

You mentioned Killtown can come back here when he's "ready to change his ways". I emailed him today and he said he's ready to comeback.

In the effort to not drag this out any further, why don't you allow him back and I'll ask him to not comeback here to challenge you about his banning and to just post here as if his public banning never happened. Deal?

Originally posted by PandorasBox
SkepticOverlord,

This seems to becoming a futile effort. It's obvious you guys do not want to prove you allegations against KT. I can't force you to. It's your forum and you're free to do what ever you want. I personally think you are discrediting yourselves with your "guilty until you prove your self innocent" policy here... especially since banned members are unable to prove themselves innocent because they are banned.

Pandora, you seem to have missed my post in your haste at achieving your agenda. No prob, I'll repost:

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by PandorasBox

Originally posted by intrepid
Crickets all of a sudden.

Hmm.

Sorry that I have a life... you may want to try it.

A personal attack, how surprising. Much like this one:

I do, however, appreciate your response. You appear to be thoughtful and somewhat understanding in your rhetoric. This is completely opposed to some of your other less mature moderators.

You still haven't answered my question though. You're an associate of killtowns, how many sites has he been banned from?

That's not a hard question to answer.

Hmm? Do you care to answer that?

Originally posted by intrepid
how many sites has he been banned from?

I don't know... why don't you guys allow him to come back and you ask him yourself?

[edit on 22-8-2007 by PandorasBox]

Originally posted by PandorasBox

Originally posted by intrepid
how many sites has he been banned from?

Don't know.

I thought you were a friend of his. Maybe you should do some research on the sites he's been banned at. I'll send you a few links if you like. They are "self admitted" bannings. He's actually proud of it.

Originally posted by intrepid
I thought you were a friend of his. Maybe you should do some research on the sites he's been banned at. I'll send you a few links if you like. They are "self admitted" bannings. He's actually proud of it.

I consider him my friend, but what does this have to do with anything? Do you have an agenda against him?

Originally posted by PandorasBox
...why don't you guys allow him to come back...

We've been abundantly clear about what caused his banning. The vast majority of ATS members have agreed with the action, while a minority of non-members seem not to... no matter, our concern is with ATS.

We've also been abundantly clear on what he needs to do to being the process of considering reinstatement, and thus far, we've heard nothing from him.

I am personally astonished and humbled by the incredible charity and forebearance exhibited by the mods and administrators on this thread.

If an invited guest disrupted the harmony of my home, flagrantly disobeyed the generous rules of my house and were asked to leave until they could learn to behave, I doubt I would be as patient in explaining my actions as what I have witnessed here.

They have been accused of tyranny, conspiracy, "having an agenda", railed against, insulted, ridiculed and disrespected yet have responded with more christian charity than I can muster (as a christian).

I'm proud to be a member of this site that so embodies american principles; practices what they preach and allows disenchanted members to vocalize their discontent with impunity. Try getting THAT on another site.....for free! Go Mods!