zeitgeist the movie - All the worlds a stage

loved the video, the latest version on their website with the first part about the origins of Christianity and other religions all based on astrology, epic. The issues it raises on 9/11 in light of all that is all very relative i believe and the narrator does an excellent job of collaborating all the different information. A very compelling movie and a must see, great stuff.

I thought it was a good movie. It made me see the world a little differently by the end of it. I have seen some intense posts on other website forums.The Radicals are sure coming out of the woodwork now. They are talking about the revolution and all. Lol.. It would be great if something would be done about the corruption in the world but what will really get done about it? Alot of people must have seen this movie already and believe it but that will be as far as it will go.I have seen no news,protesting or anything that would be considered real action stemming from this movie. So unless something really changes in the near future this movie and the effect it had on people will eventually be forgotten and life will continue on resuming the same way with the same issues.

Originally posted by laiguana
I don't care about the religious crap, that to me is irrelevant, everything else they said isn't....since it's a load of anti-US propaganda.

Go do some research into the history of the Federal Reserve. Try reading, for instance,

Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins (available online here: www.apfn.org...)

The Creature of Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin

The Money Changers by Patrick Carmack (available online here: reactor-core.org...)

Final Warning: A History Of The New World Order by David Allen Rivera (available online here: www.the7thfire.com...)

A History Of Money And Banking In the United States by Murry N. Rothbard (available online here: www.mises.org...)

Or, you could try watching the excellent 5-star documentary The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control Of America, available online at Google Video:

video.google.co.uk...
video.google.co.uk...

Or you could use your own initiative and do your own research. Or, you could do what you're more likely to do - nothing, and just pretend it's not really true; that way you can continue to convince yourself of your American exceptionalism.

It's NOT anti-US propoganda. It's historical fact, set in stone and backed up by far too much real-life evidence to be overlooked. Denial is not a river in Africa...

Originally posted by snoopy
My problem is that it seems every CT moviemaker went to the same CT film school or something. Can we just get a ilm that doesn't start with 10 minutes of quotes displayed to over dramatic background music?

Have you thought that maybe those quotes are relevant? Have you considered that the people who originally said those things did so because they knew something about what was going on, and wanted to warn people like you? As someone else has said, why not just fast-forward if they offend you so much? Or is your aversion to something so simplistic simply an excuse to not watch information you don't like?

Had you also considered that most "CT" movies and documentaries are made on a low, often shoestring, budget, for obvious reasons?

Saw this movie about 2 weeks ago...and I have not been the same since. I am in the process right now of informing every person in my city of this....and watch what happens.

When I saw loose change, it was when I myself was looking into certain areas of 9/11 that didnt make since. When I began to hear rumors of molten metal under all three of the buildings, Thermite came to my mind instantly. When I saw WTC7 go down, I knew it was none other than a controlled demolition. I liked Loose Change, because it went through the events leading up to 9/11, and dealt with the physics and science of what happened. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theory based on the relative mood of the masses, and I don't bow down to official explanations based on the soul fact that they are official explanations. I like facts, cold...and hard. 9/11 was wrong in so many ways, and that some of us saw that - the moment the towers fell STRAIGHT DOWN AT FREE FALL SPEED.

Loose Change was about what happened on 9/11. Zeitgeist was about much, much more. It was about Slavery. It was about control. It was about the men, that through history and genetic transfer, have controlled every facet of our nation and a good portion of the world, committed terrible crimes against humanity without regard....for the purpose of controlling every human being inside their sphere of influence. Money, power, control.

And after doing some research of my own, I have to tell you......this film needs to be watched by every man, women, and child in the US, UK, everyone.

I don't want to believe it guys. I really don't. I want to believe that my government is looking out for me and my child. I want to believe that despite the crime and violence and war, that everything is looking up. And more than anything I want to believe that a one world government is good, that it will bring all of us together, and that those who we entrust it with are the purest, most trustworthy people in existence.

But what I want to believe....and what is staring me right in the face....are two different things, and I can't turn my back on it.

9/11 was an Inside Job, one in a series of inside jobs, and most importantly, not the last to be sure unless something is done about it. And that something is justice.

When a convicted felon is let go after serving his time, and he commits another crime, his sentence at that point is based on not only the crime he has most recently committed, but the previous crime as well. This is a practice that has gone on for centuries - millennia. It seems to be the natural way that we as humans can imagine justice being served best, is it not?

Then why is it not applicable for the CRIMINAL ELEMENTS in the government and financial sectors? People who's entire history seems to be one of power grabbing at any expense, people who arbitrarily put people in poverty, who sent men to die to fatten their coffers, and have yet to spend ONE NIGHT IN A JAIL for the crimes that they willingly committed?

How long will WE let them continue?

*For all the non believers out there.....I respect your view point, truly. The freedom to do as you would is one of the underlying principals of what is supposed to be our free country. But I beg of you to not only just watch the movie, but research some of the material. It will give you an insight into the other side of the coin that you don't believe in, perhaps giving you an enlightening POV that you can share with everyone and thus guide us all toward the truth. The only way we will set this to rest and move on is if we do just that and accomplish the goal of knowing exactly what happened, and why. But believe me in all truth when I say this......

I hope, for my child and your child, for my ancestors and yours, for the blood being spilled by our husbands and wives and children and all those in uniform.......

I hope YOU are right....and I....am WRONG.

Originally posted by franzbeckenbauer
Had you also considered that most "CT" movies and documentaries are made on a low, often shoestring, budget, for obvious reasons?

Yeah tell me about it. I've been struggling all year to complete a prime machine for editing and especially rendering movies. Have hours and hours worth of stuff mostly done, partially done or in the works. Finally got the machine built and took 2 lightning hits in 2 weeks. Fried the piece. I rendered a 2.5 hour A.J. compilation project I had in mind from a year ago, just to get the damn thing off my plate, and it took 20 hours on a spare Celeron PieceC which is now dead as well(I highly recommend you worry more about internet line power surge protection even above the power line). Only then could I see the things I had to still work on. Right now I'm big-pre-industrial-pimpin at home, and stuck with limited access using a coworkers machine.

My advice to whoever made the "CT" film school comment is to first make something better and use it as an example to move the 'school' forward. Zeitgeist actually set some new standards in a few ways; I'm quite curious as to how many people worked on it and for how long. Don't watch CT movies if you can't handle the work of selfless people doing the best they can to affect change based on what they know and can figure out in time.

[edit on 19-9-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by laiguana
Where are the sources in the movie itself? Where are the unbiased sources that can be confirmed with one or more other independent sources that would make all these claims made in this film even worth considering? What I find concerning is that audiences will swallow everything films such as this toss out, especially when they are promoting anti-US sentiment..But who would go down their huge list of claims and mark them off one by one to see if their so called sources match up word by word and relay the exact information they are proposing. I wouldn't be surprised if few did such a thing since people have better things to do than go around and validate information that is addressed in an absolute manner.

I don't care about the religious crap, that to me is irrelevant, everything else they said isn't....since it's a load of anti-US propaganda.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by laiguana]

Here's my question to you, Where are the sources given by MSNBC, CNN, Foxnews, or ANY TV channel on ANY news story? Zeitgeist (Who's sources are listed on their official site) is more factual than anything I see on a daily basis delivering me bull# news.. like mainstream media.

Watching this now. I decided to bump instead of making a new thread. It covers all the most famous conspiracys. Great info about the great depression at 1 hour 20 min.

Do I trust the government? No.
Do I believe the U.S. is capable of doing such horrendus acts? Two words: Pearl Harbor
I just don't see any true advantage to attacking your own country. Please tell me, what did America gain? Please tell me as I watch this video.

Hahah.. I really hope you ended up watching the movie. It more than thoroughly explains the answers to these questions.

This movie explains something that every person in the entire world needs to be explained because very few understand it. Ron Paul understands the concept, relating to the Central Bank, yet I have spoken with many MBAs who do not understand it. It is purposefully left out of Economics education, yet it is a battle that has been fought for all of modern mankind since the invention of currency.

FREE MONEY.

If society cannot understand this concept and hold it's principles dear, then it is doomed to be controlled by those who control the currency and maintain the systems of credit.

Seriously. Watch this movie. Do it for humanity. Even if the 9/11 part is untrue the video concedes it is not necessary to be true for the rest to be correct.

[edit on 29-10-2007 by drannno]

[edit on 29-10-2007 by drannno]

I must say, this thread is quite different than what I've become accustomed to here on ATS, usually folks will "debunk" something rather than "dismiss" it. This was a long watch. I found the subject very interesting, but even though i am very interested in this subject material, the movie was kind of boring. But I sat thruogh the whole thing and when I read this thread here on ATS I must admit I was hoping to see your usual group of debunkers at work, but instead I found folks refusing to watch. What's with that? This movie is pretty believable. Has anyone seen it that can "debunk" this?????????

reply to post by cynical572

Has anyone seen it that can "debunk" this?????????

I have seen part one semi-debunked elsewhere. Apparently, many of the 'similarities' between Jesus and Horus, for example, are either flat wrong or unsubstantiated. That said, many of the claims made about how and what Jesus is and what 'he' represents made perfect sense to me - but then, I'm an atheistt, so what do you expect?

Part two is similarly dismissed by many as 'Loose Change' re-worked.

Part three was the best and would probably do better as a stand-alone piece.

Many have known for a long time, in broad terms, about the way the Fed works. Zeitgeist sets it out neatly.

For those who've never watched it and/or don't plan to, and are not sure what I mean, then in simple terms:

• The Fed is a private business
  
  
• It prints money and makes its own decisions about supply
  
  
• It sells money to the US government and sets the interest rate
  
  
• The government pays the interest by buying more money from the Fed
  
  
• This interest attracts interest.

You can see the problem.

Originally posted by cynical572
I must say, this thread is quite different than what I've become accustomed to here on ATS, usually folks will "debunk" something rather than "dismiss" it. This was a long watch. I found the subject very interesting, but even though i am very interested in this subject material, the movie was kind of boring. But I sat thruogh the whole thing and when I read this thread here on ATS I must admit I was hoping to see your usual group of debunkers at work, but instead I found folks refusing to watch. What's with that? This movie is pretty believable. Has anyone seen it that can "debunk" this?????????

The reason is simple. It's completely unfair to present an entire film as an argument. It takes 5 seconds to post a link, how much time does it take to address an entire films worth of arguments? Thus the film itself is not a valid argument. If people want to hear some debunking, then they need to bring up specific points that can be reasonably discussed. Otherwise no one on earth has the time to address an entire films worth of points. Especially when they have all individually been addressed over time on the forum.

I'd be happy to address any points if anyone cares to bring some up (a reasonable amount). I can't promise I am aware of them all from this movie. I have a strict policy of not watching any film that starts with several minutes of quote along with sinister music. It's my means of weeding out propaganda. If anyone feels they need to lead someone along with music and unrelated quotes, then they clearly have no interest in facts. But I am sure there are a few good points in there.

Originally posted by coughymachine

• The Fed is a private business
  
  
• It prints money and makes its own decisions about supply
  
  
• It sells money to the US government and sets the interest rate
  
  
• The government pays the interest by buying more money from the Fed
  
  
• This interest attracts interest.

You can see the problem.

The problem that those points are simply not true. If that is what the film is claiming, then I feel my method of weeding out propaganda is working well. One should get to the claim that the Reserve is a private business and stop watching at that point. Case closed right there. Yes there are private banks on the board and it is not soley governmental. but that is for very good reasons, as we all know how well the government is with handling money. We need people with vested interest in our economy involved. And with the current set up, it's not possible for anyone to abuse the system for gain without it affecting someone else involved negatively. Checks and balances. The boards consist of many groups to keep everyone in check. The bother points made there are even more off base and not worth getting into.

reply to post by snoopy

The bother points made there are even more off base and not worth getting into.

Two posts ago, you offered to address specific points, as long as there weren't too many.

Is it unreasonable to ask you to address the five points I set out, rather than simply dismiss them without explanation?

• Perhaps you could tell us a little more about the Fed and why it is not, in essence, a private business. How, for example, is its board made up?
  
  
• If the Fed doesn't make decisions about the money supply, who does?
  
  
• If the Fed doesn't set interest rates, who does?
  
  
• Who is responsible for paying this interest?
  
  
• How is this interest paid for?

I'm a UK resident and can accept I might have been sucked in by 'propagana'. The points I originally set out, whilst simplified, are broadly as I understood them to be before I watched the film. So I ask the questions above not out of some attempt to antagonise you, but becuase I want to know the answers.

Originally posted by coughymachine
reply to post by snoopy

 

The bother points made there are even more off base and not worth getting into.

Two posts ago, you offered to address specific points, as long as there weren't too many.

Is it unreasonable to ask you to address the five points I set out, rather than simply dismiss them without explanation?

• Perhaps you could tell us a little more about the Fed and why it is not, in essence, a private business. How, for example, is its board made up?
  
  
• If the Fed doesn't make decisions about the money supply, who does?
  
  
• If the Fed doesn't set interest rates, who does?
  
  
• Who is responsible for paying this interest?
  
  
• How is this interest paid for?

I'm a UK resident and can accept I might have been sucked in by 'propagana'. The points I originally set out, whilst simplified, are broadly as I understood them to be before I watched the film. So I ask the questions above not out of some attempt to antagonise you, but becuase I want to know the answers.

The Fed is both Government *and* private. To be one or the other would be a bad idea. Basically the banks are private. This is because we want private organizations who's best interest is the economy itself. But they are controlled by a board of Governors who are publicly appointed. This is to protect the private organizations from abusing the system. The board makes the decisions and the public banks perform the decisions.

Yes they do make decisions does make decisions about the money supply. This is how we maintain a stable economy instead of relying on the mercy of a static object such as gold. Both have pros and cons, but Gold is more limited.

The Fed does set interest rates.

The interest created goes into the US Treasury. The Government does not pay any net interest.

These notions of interest being paid for are not how things work. In a way it's true, but what films such as this one don't tell anyone is that the money is returned to us. So for instance one year when we paid $239 billion in interest, $327 was rebated (obviously there are some costs involved). And the Fed has only about 7% of the national debt. So the claim that we are just paying off interest on debt is simply not true.

Also, while not brought up, it's a common belief that these elites just run things as they want with no oversight. but on top of the board, independent accounting firms conduct full audits of both the banks and the board every year.

And of course these are just simplistic answers without getting into details. But believe me, if there was something conspiracy related going on, the business men of the country would not just sit around quiet. The system was carefully put into place so as to be as fair as possible to everyone. And anyone who would get screwed over would be sure to make it very clear. Yet you see no economic scholars raising issue correct? Only videos on youtube.

reply to post by snoopy

I'm left a little confused.

In my earlier post I gave a simplified summary of some of the points made in the film. They were:

• The Fed is a private business
  
  
• It prints money and makes its own decisions about supply
  
  
• It sells money to the US government and sets the interest rate
  
  
• The government pays the interest by buying more money from the Fed
  
  
• This interest attracts interest.

You responded by dismissing the first. Of the remainder, you said:

The bother [sic] points made there are even more off base and not worth getting into.

But from your latest reply, it seems they were not so far "off base".

For example, the Fed is basically a group of private banks. I accept they have government appointed governors, but it still seems to me in essence to be a private enterprise.

As for the other points, well you've confimed that the Fed does in fact control the money supply. And you've confirmed that it does set interest rates.

Further, if it supplies the government with money and is financially compensated for doing so, then it is, in effect, selling money to the government and charging for it, isn't it?

Finally, if the government is compensating the Fed for supplying the money, then it requires additional money to do so, which comes from the Fed. Isn't this tantamount to interest attracting interest?

snoopy:

It seems rather apparent that you have quite a lot of your being invested in dismissing and debunking nigh every point brought forth here. Even your drawn out explanation of how the Federal Reserve is only a 'kind of' private (i.e. controlled by 'special interests' behind closed doors) bank is lacking truth. Presidents, governors, and congresspeople are elected officials - are they also totally beyond the taint of corruption? Are you really attempting to say that just because the OVERSEERS are elected by the public (in a voting system that is becoming increasingly flawed and privately regulated) that all is well and the system stands as a pristine gem in the liberated world? Elected officials ATPIT (at this point in time) are very vulnerable to bribery and threats... and I hear that is quite the rage in Washington DC nowadays...

The mind is an evidential device - as many researchers, doctors, and scientists have already discovered. What this means is that the mind will only allow YOU (the observer) to witness evidence (or the lackthereof) that you want to see. Some people deny the existence of a cover-up solely because it would undermine the very fabric of their reality structure. If that structure was undermined, it would cause a person to re-assess their fears - and ATPIT many humans would rather suffer unconscious (unaware) pain than look at their fear in earnest.

If you (snoopy) do not believe in El Nino, UFOs, God, and 9/11 being an inside job then it is impossible for you to see any evidence contrary to your beliefs - even IF and WHEN there is a mountain of evidence proving the opposite.

That is why IT IS IMPERATIVE for the TRUTH MOVEMENT to stay centered IN THE TRUTH! What am I after? Why, the Truth of course! (^_^) And it is quite obvious that the current explanations and actions by our own (the U.S.A's) government are lacking consistency and honor. Many of the avenues we could have used to validate what we were told have been deleted and/or confiscated. That in itself seems rather curious... We are told to work solely on 'good faith' from a system that has made no-bid contracts and overpaid dearly for hammers, nails, and toilet seats...

There is much much evidence that points to 9/11 being an inside job... And even if it was not, there is much much evidence of extreme and complete incompetence on nigh every level of our government. Either way, the people we have elected are corrupt to the core in their positions of power and are either hiding their own incompetence or darker agendas.

Do not seek to prove anything, as that will lead you to biased and corrupted data.
Seek the truth, and that is exactly what will be found...

Originally posted by TrueAce
snoopy:

It seems rather apparent that you have quite a lot of your being invested in dismissing and debunking nigh every point brought forth here. Even your drawn out explanation of how the Federal Reserve is only a 'kind of' private (i.e. controlled by 'special interests' behind closed doors) bank is lacking truth. Presidents, governors, and congresspeople are elected officials - are they also totally beyond the taint of corruption? Are you really attempting to say that just because the OVERSEERS are elected by the public (in a voting system that is becoming increasingly flawed and privately regulated) that all is well and the system stands as a pristine gem in the liberated world? Elected officials ATPIT (at this point in time) are very vulnerable to bribery and threats... and I hear that is quite the rage in Washington DC nowadays...

The mind is an evidential device - as many researchers, doctors, and scientists have already discovered. What this means is that the mind will only allow YOU (the observer) to witness evidence (or the lackthereof) that you want to see. Some people deny the existence of a cover-up solely because it would undermine the very fabric of their reality structure. If that structure was undermined, it would cause a person to re-assess their fears - and ATPIT many humans would rather suffer unconscious (unaware) pain than look at their fear in earnest.

If you (snoopy) do not believe in El Nino, UFOs, God, and 9/11 being an inside job then it is impossible for you to see any evidence contrary to your beliefs - even IF and WHEN there is a mountain of evidence proving the opposite.

That is why IT IS IMPERATIVE for the TRUTH MOVEMENT to stay centered IN THE TRUTH! What am I after? Why, the Truth of course! (^_^) And it is quite obvious that the current explanations and actions by our own (the U.S.A's) government are lacking consistency and honor. Many of the avenues we could have used to validate what we were told have been deleted and/or confiscated. That in itself seems rather curious... We are told to work solely on 'good faith' from a system that has made no-bid contracts and overpaid dearly for hammers, nails, and toilet seats...

There is much much evidence that points to 9/11 being an inside job... And even if it was not, there is much much evidence of extreme and complete incompetence on nigh every level of our government. Either way, the people we have elected are corrupt to the core in their positions of power and are either hiding their own incompetence or darker agendas.

Do not seek to prove anything, as that will lead you to biased and corrupted data.
Seek the truth, and that is exactly what will be found...

Nice try TrueAce, but what you are really saying is that because you don't agree with it, then it's dismissal and untrue. But that's pretty dishonest of you.

Like the poster above saying that because the banks themselves are private that that makes the federal reserve private. That is of course 100% completely untrue. That is implying that the federal reserve consists of only those private banks. That it 100% untrue.

And as for my "drawn out explanation", as I mentioned it's simply a brief undetailed explanation, not a complete one. And it is NOT lacking truth at all. That's very dishonest of you to say that. No one is beyond corruption, which is ENTIRELY the point of it not being private or government. It's set up with board of opposition (checks and balances if you will) to prevent this from happening. And that is why it is audited every year by independent groups. And then other government agencies or Congress can perform additional audits if they need.

And then you back up one conspiracy with another, the voting system. So you have proof their is fraud? Do you have anything beyond conjecture about this? Simply saying that every human is capable of doing something bad therefore proves that everyone is? If there was fraud, then everyone who was affected by it and wasn't in on it would cry bloody murder.

But despite using conjecture to make an argument, we can be clear about one thing. The claims being made by the film about how the Federal Reserve works are false and obviously fictional.

And I have to believe in El Nino being an inside job??? Are you frickin serious? How am I even supposed to dignify that with a response? This is once again part of the conspiracy shuffle. If the argument isn't going well, then switch to one of the many other ones, like voting, 9/11, and (Wow! that's a new one for me) El Nino. having a hard time getting past that one. You are claiming that everyone in the world who doesn't think El Nino is a conspiracy (which until right now I hadn't even heard of such a claim) is incompetent?? That would include most of the worlds scientists. And in general probably 99% of the population.

And you speak o "truth". Simply saying something is "truth" does not make it "truth". Saying El Nino or the Fed is a conspiracy and then putting the word "truth" on it doesn't make it so. In fact it's quite ironic as the actual truth as I have explained shows that this film which touts the same "truth" is clearly a fraud. Now I can understand someone being misinformed, as it happens to everyone. But to go around spreading lies and calling it "truth" is simply dishonest. And that seems to be exactly what this film is going from the claims listed so far (such as saying the fed is a private business). As I already pointed out, the private banks don't actually do anything but execute what the board dictates.

Thankee sai for calling my post nice, but FYI I did not 'try' to do anything.
I just do and I just am.

In honest joviality:

There is much evidence out there of voting fraud! I find it amazing you didn't do a simple google search on Diebold hack, voting fraud, and so forth. ...Of course, it IS much easier for you to just dismiss than do actual research... And it is OKAY to be lazy and apathetic snoopy! Correct me if I am wrong, but you are a U.S. Citizen, correct? Then I understand fully: Laziness and apathy are a common side effect prescription drugs.

(I know, I know, not everyone in the U.S. is on prescription drugs... but it is quite amazing to see how many people actually are...)

In jovial seriousness:

~( www.whatreallyhappened.com... (Sources quoted from within)
~( itpolicy.princeton.edu... (It's the second one, the first probably caused the second... if you catch my drift...)

~( www.commondreams.org...


So one of Bush's major contributers was the CEO of Diebold?
Hmm... Can anyone say conflict of interests?

The link below is WONDERFUL! Now I can hack the Diebold TS machine! And while I do have my A+ certification, it is very apparent that a bare minimum of computer expertise is required in this endeavor. It is a funny video AND informative! Isn't it wonderful how learning can be fun? (^_^)
~( www.huffingtonpost.com...

The greatest thing is: I pulled up all of these in less than 5 minutes and I didn't even have to go to page 2 of the search! And this validates my point quite nicely! There IS quite enough information and evidence out there to QUESTION THE INTEGRITY of electronic voting ATPIT! Simple dismissal that it is outrageous and beyond question is outrageous and beyond question.

...And you missed the point entirely (which did catch me by surprise BTW) of what I was referring to. All of the things I mentioned are ATPIT 'questionable' material - perhaps with the exception of El Nino... and you fell quite nicely into your own pitfall there. Would you like me to help you up? (^_^)

(A)If one believes and looks for evidence that the sun orbits around the earth - the mind will be incapable of viewing/perceiving any evidence contrary to that belief.

(B)If one believes and looks for evidence that the earth orbits around the sun - the mind will be incapable of viewing/perceiving any evidence contrary to that belief.

(1)If one believes and looks for evidence of the truth - the mind will be functioning at full capacity.

It is why I stressed the point that all of us (the 9/11 Truth Movement) should stick to our guns and desire THE TRUTH as opposed to validate or invalidate a conspiracy theory. I very much honor your determination snoopy, but I ask you to reconsider what it is that you are after. Do you want to be right, or do you want to know the honest-to-life truth?

We have stepped into new grounds: as individuals, as communities, and as a world. I see our leaders detached from the public and screaming war at any cost. I see nigh all presidential candidates (*cough* RON PAUL REVOLUTION *cough*) backing the belief that we need to be in perpetual war. I would love to ask them the same question I asked you, but alas... they are unavailable to the common man.

And that in itself should be a crime...

Thankee sai for calling my post nice, but FYI I did not 'try' to do anything.
I just do and I just am.

In honest joviality:

There is much evidence out there of voting fraud! I find it amazing you didn't do a simple google search on Diebold hack, voting fraud, and so forth. ...Of course, it IS much easier for you to just dismiss than do actual research... And it is OKAY to be lazy and apathetic snoopy! Correct me if I am wrong, but you are a U.S. Citizen, correct? Then I understand fully: Laziness and apathy are a common side effect prescription drugs.

(I know, I know, not everyone in the U.S. is on prescription drugs... but it is quite amazing to see how many people actually are...)

In jovial seriousness:

~( www.whatreallyhappened.com... (Sources quoted from within)
~( itpolicy.princeton.edu... (It's the second one, the first probably caused the second... if you catch my drift...)

~( www.commondreams.org...


So one of Bush's major contributers was the CEO of Diebold?
Hmm... Can anyone say conflict of interests?

The link below is WONDERFUL! Now I can hack the Diebold TS machine! And while I do have my A+ certification, it is very apparent that a bare minimum of computer expertise is required in this endeavor. It is a funny video AND informative! Isn't it wonderful how learning can be fun? (^_^)
~( www.huffingtonpost.com...

The greatest thing is: I pulled up all of these in less than 5 minutes and I didn't even have to go to page 2 of the search! And this validates my point quite nicely! There IS quite enough information and evidence out there to QUESTION THE INTEGRITY of electronic voting ATPIT! Simple dismissal that it is outrageous and beyond question is outrageous and beyond question.

...And you missed the point entirely (which did catch me by surprise BTW) of what I was referring to. All of the things I mentioned are ATPIT 'questionable' material - perhaps with the exception of El Nino... and you fell quite nicely into your own pitfall there. Would you like me to help you up? (^_^)

(A)If one believes and looks for evidence that the sun orbits around the earth - the mind will be incapable of viewing/perceiving any evidence contrary to that belief.

(B)If one believes and looks for evidence that the earth orbits around the sun - the mind will be incapable of viewing/perceiving any evidence contrary to that belief.

(1)If one believes and looks for evidence of the truth - the mind will be functioning at full capacity.

It is why I stressed the point that all of us (the 9/11 Truth Movement) should stick to our guns and desire THE TRUTH as opposed to validate or invalidate a conspiracy theory. I very much honor your determination snoopy, but I ask you to reconsider what it is that you are after. Do you want to be right, or do you want to know the honest-to-life truth?

We have stepped into new grounds: as individuals, as communities, and as a world. I see our leaders detached from the public and screaming war at any cost. I see nigh all presidential candidates (*cough* RON PAUL REVOLUTION *cough*) backing the belief that we need to be in perpetual war. I would love to ask them the same question I asked you, but alas... they are unavailable to the common man.

And that in itself should be a crime...