Amnesty. What’s In A Name?

Exactly DonWhite I remember a while back I tried to make a post with the realities of why a person comes to this nation and many risk their lives just to be here.

But when my post shows that is our own nation the one making this possible because the way local farmers in other nations has been run out of business, immediately I became an American basher.

But history and reality speaks the truth, this people can not make a living in their nations the same way American local farmers has been run out of business by big corporate conglomerates so this immigrants has been run out of theirs in the nations.

Nevertheless, we as consumers are guilty, because we want cheap products and corporate America wants cheap labor.

Another example is what is happening with China goods now and the inability of our own safety government agencies to inspect the very low and dangerous qualities of goods coming from that nation.

People do not understand that in order to have cheap products this countries manufacturing is cheap also that is why they are able to sell cheap, sweat shop, slave labor, cheap materials, lack of safety inspections, so what we pay is what we get.

Originally posted by donwhite
How can 1 of your words be equal to 7 of my words?

OH MAN .. you are REALLY baiting me, aren't ya?

(but hey, it's nice that someone here wants me to talk MORE. Most of the time I get people who don't want to hear what I have to say!)

You still haven't answered my question .. did you read the Trojan Horse article that I posted BEFORE you posted all of those words of yours?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
... these illegals are going to come out of the wood work and pay that 5000 dollars that the amnesty bill proposes they pay.

Yeah .. .. that's one of the dumbest things I have heard. It'll never happen. Or, I should say, it will RARELY happen.

Originally posted by donwhite
Land of he free, home of the brave. Hmm?

Yep. Land of the free AMERICANS. Home of the brave AMERICANS. BTW - we AMERICANS are garunteed the right to PERSUE happiness .. we aren't garunteed to actually be happy.

behind a “Berlin Wall?”

Naaaaaaaah. That was too small We need one 20 feet high, 20 feet wide, 20 feet deep ... manned with our military (pull 'em from Iraq and put them on the borders). Now THAT is a wall!!

Sweet Jesus, come quick!

Well, Don White, THAT we agree on!

[edit on 6/27/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by marg6043
Another example is what is happening with China goods now ...

Just let me add to that. Slave labor in China. Political prisoners are being forced to make goods for China .. and we buy them. I was told (and I can't confirm this) that Happy Meal Toys come from this labor source.

If true .. it's very sickening.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I was told (and I can't confirm this) that Happy Meal Toys come from this labor source.

If true .. it's very sickening.

It was a report on one of the media channels that was talking about the inability of our safety agencies to regulate the goods that are comming from China because our agencies are lacking personal with so many cuts.

Occurs China do not have or need regulations are all, they are right like US was before regulations started to control goods qualities.

Also that some of the people or inspectors that recently visited China from the US to check on the latest problem with the paint of some toys sold in the US, were amazed at how much power the manufactures have over the local government.

We have always been told that China is communist control by the government but it seems that theirs new group of elite controlling manufactures are gaining a lot of power in China.

Perhaps because the pay the local governments to be able to abuse the workers.

No, F/F, I did not read your links to Trojan Horse which I presume warns of indeed, hypes the potential dangers of, 12 million or 20 million “subversive lawbreakers” inside the American body politic. As in Troy etc.

Well, TJ said some truths were “self-evident” but the phrase, “pursuit of happiness” is not one of those. In the Age of Enlightenment the pursuit of happiness meant the right to own property. Private property. It had nothing to do with tickling little kids.

Fortunately I believe better judgment will prevail and the Wall will be out with Bush43, on January 20, 2009. Walls are the products of narrow vision and small minds. Of which we have an excess as in VP Cheney and etc.

I like the phrase, ‘Sweet Jesus, Come Quick’ and I use it to show frustration.

[edit on 6/27/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
A minimum or near minimum wage worker pay $5,000? An open invitation to loan sharks! Blackmail! Extortion. Surely this draconian provision will be abandoned. It is as bad a concept as the GREAT WALL some want to build around America. Land of he free, home of the brave.

[edit on 6/26/2007 by donwhite]

Do you want to know why I dislike this bill,mainly? Because it is working back ass wards!! Instead of securing the nation's borders before deciding what to do about the law breakers, they want to decide what to do with the law breakers and deal with the national borders later.

I am all for doing whatever is necessary to secure our national borders. For me, anything short of the militarization of both the Northern and Southern borders will not be good enough, to be quite honest. So, I guess in your books, I am worse than those who would build a "Great Wall" on the borders.

The difference between people who think like I do and liberals is that people like me are concerned for our nation. Liberals aren't concerned about this nation, all they are concerned about is "feeling good" about themselves. There comes a time when one must prioritize, and, in my opinion, "feeling good" about oneself does not supersede the security of this nation.

Originally posted by donwhite
I did not read your links to Trojan Horse which I presume warns of indeed, hypes the potential dangers ...

Ahhhh .. well ... if you HAD read the links I have provided - especially the Trojan Horse link - you would understand that there are REAL dangers .. and they are big enough by themselves that they dont' have to be 'hyped'.

I like the phrase, ‘Sweet Jesus, Come Quick’ and I use it to show frustration.

*sigh* oh well. I thought we had found something we agreed upon.

Well .. ya' best get reading those articles so that you can understand the danger to America .. then we will have something we agree on Don White.

Have a great day (and try to stay cool - it's blaz'n hot out there! )

Edited to add -

Originally posted by donwhite
In the Age of Enlightenment the pursuit of happiness meant ...

That almost doesn't matter. We still use it today and in today's language it means what it means - you can pursue happiness..... But that's another subject, eh?


[edit on 6/27/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Well .. ya' best get reading those articles so that you can understand the danger to America .. then we will have something we agree on Don White.


[edit on 6/27/2007 by FlyersFan]

Flyers, not to be critical, but I don't think he is concerned about that. He is more concerned, at least it seems to me, about how the rest of the world will view America if it decides to develop a stringent policy in regards to illegals in this country. I personally couldn't care less. Most of the rest of the world already has a negative opinion of Americans anyway.

We are being accused of being "selfish" by people who really shouldn't be concerned about what we do about our national borders. Yet, Americans haven't shown themselves to be selfish at all. There is no society that is anymore charitable than Americans, not one.

Also, how long have we allowed people free access into this country? I know for at least the last 60 years people from other nations have been allowed to come and go in our country without question, really.

For me, this whole issue is about the world we live in today and what needs to be done. We are no longer living in a world where our borders can remain porous. It's just not acceptable, and it certainly, despite what Mr. White may think, isn't smart.

I don't have to present any facts and figures to support my case because the numbers are out there in excess for anyone who cares to examine it. Also, my point of view makes its own case. I am sorry, Mr. White, but if you're arguing that we should just eat the 12-20 million illegals that are here, and continue to have an open borders policy, you are wrong, sir.

The first thing that needs to be done is to decide what we are going to do to secure our national borders. After that is done, then what is to be done about those that are here should be decided.

Mr. Bush has quite conclusively shown himself not to be a conservative by any stretch of the imagination. A conservative would have started working on a border policy within months of 9/11, not wait until five years, count them, five years to try and develop a policy. He is only doing it now for "legacy" points.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
He is more concerned, at least it seems to me, about how the rest of the world will view America if it decides to develop a stringent policy in regards to illegals in this country.

Oh ... okay.

I dont' care what the rest of the world thinks of us. They hate us no matter what we do. (jealous!) they want us to be a socialist mess like France. But we are Americans and we will look after our OWN first.

The rest of the world can go jump in a lake. We will run our country the way we see fit.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The rest of the world can go jump in a lake. We will run our country the way we see fit.

I wish your worlds were true Flyers, I truly wish that We Americans were the wants running our country.

But as you can see with the immigration bill you pretty much can tell who is writing our bills that our corporate congress pass, corporate America and foreign lobbyist are the ones running our nation.

Itsn't that sad? money of interest groups are dictating our laws?

Originally posted by marg6043
money of interest groups are dictating our laws?

Oh marg ..you are so right. Groups like The NEA and Planned Parenthood and AARP payoff politicians to get their agendas taken care of. (there are others ..but those came to mind first).

Originally posted by FlyersFan
But we are Americans and we will look after our OWN first.

Well, I'd honestly like to believe that, but I am increasingly beginning to doubt that is the case. This proposed amnesty bill, at least in my opinion, adequately sums up our politicians' attitudes toward the American populace. 80% of the American populace is against this garbage bill, yet, those on Capitol hill are still trying to ram this down our throats.

[edit on 28-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 28-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by marg6043
money of interest groups are dictating our laws?

Oh marg ..you are so right. Groups like The NEA and Planned Parenthood and AARP payoff politicians to get their agendas taken care of. (there are others ..but those came to mind first).

Oh, I agree Flyers I agree but gets who has the most money to push for bills to get what they want, the highest bidder gets the best deals at the expenses of the us the American people.

I did a piece a while back on who is lobbying for the American people, guess what . . . our elected politicians are the ones to lobby for us, but that is not so.

How do you think most of this politicians can afford to live the lives the live? is not with their salaries as politicians pay by the tax payer to serve the public, but with all the incentives gift under the table by big interest lobbyist.

They pass a mockery of a bill to limit lobbyist gifts, but we know that is only to make belief that they are doing something.

NEA. National Education Association. National group that works through local state wide groups such as the KEA in my home ste of Kentucky. Ffunded in the 1920s, it has worked relentlessly and with considerable success to improve the quality and availably of public educate in America. Because I believe in and support good quality public education it is hard for me to understand why anyone would gratuitously bad mouth this organization except for their opposition to Bush43's schemes to wreck public education in America.

Planned Parenthood. Best thing since apple pie! I think everyone knows the earth is overpopulated. Just last week the NYTimes carried an article saying 20 million children die every year due to malaria, mainly in Africa. We hear the Christian Children’s Fund say 28,000 children die every day by starvation or diseases exacerbated by malnutrition. China adopted the one family, one child program in the 1970s, and has fain seen its population stabilize at 1.3 billion. Anyone who advocates irresponsible procreation is committing a came against humanity, IMO. Should I go so far as to say anyone who opposes the distribution of free condoms ought to be infected with the HIV virus. Hmm?

AARP. American Association of Retired Persons. This group which first came to prominence after the enactment of Medicare in 1965, has stood for increasing social security payments to keep pace with inflation before the program was COLA’d. Cost of living adjustment is not perfect, either. It varies and depends on the items selected to measure inflation. It is hard for me to see why anyone would want to abuse old people who can no longer work and who do not want to be a burden on their children.

The simplest way to decide what groups you support and which you oppose is to see what those groups stand for. It the group is for the same things you are for, then I’d say support it. OTOH, if it is for things you oppose, then you should oppose it too. The Republican Party opposes a minimum wage, I support that. The GOP supports tax cuts for the rich and famous (R&Fs) which I oppose. The GOP supports large amounts of deficit spending, which I oppose. It is a dirty way to shift the tax burden fro this generation to the next. That’s wrong. So, on 3 quick issues you can see why it would be foolish of me to vote for a Republican when his party stands for things I oppose. I don’t have to know his name, just his party.

[edit on 7/7/2007 by donwhite]