Calling all Christianity debunkers

SIGH!!! I find such threads tedious.... someone always has an ax to grind.

ALL (western religions anyway) come out of the same nexus of mid-eastern cults from the bronze age. It is a simple matter to trace the different religious motifs and see how they were used to promote the focuses of the various cults.

Read some will ya? Try Joseph Campbell's 4 volume "The Masks of God: Primitive, Oriental, Occidental and Creative Mythology" as a primer on this subject. Merica Ellide is also a good source as is C.G. Jung and Fraizers "The Golden Brough". Also Robin Lane Foxes "Pagans and Christians".

Damnit the information is out there if you just take the time to poke around.

you guys keep saying such connections exist, I am asking anyone of you to go on record here, after reading my original post, and tell us all specifically where and which similarities in fact exist. just pick one if you want, horus? madness you seem to think dionysus is the one with the most connections. so lets hear the similarites usind texts written before the common era.

Originally posted by Amenti
you guys keep saying such connections exist, I am asking anyone of you to go on record here, after reading my original post, and tell us all specifically where and which similarities in fact exist. just pick one if you want, horus? madness you seem to think dionysus is the one with the most connections. so lets hear the similarites usind texts written before the common era.

Dionysus is Osiris.............Osiris is Nimrod.

Originally posted by grover
ALL (western religions anyway) come out of the same nexus of mid-eastern cults from the bronze age. It is a simple matter to trace the different religious motifs and see how they were used to promote the focuses of the various cults.

Religion comes from Babylon..........just as the Bible says.

Read some will ya? Try Joseph Campbell's 4 volume "The Masks of God: Primitive, Oriental, Occidental and Creative Mythology" as a primer on this subject. Merica Ellide is also a good source as is C.G. Jung and Fraizers "The Golden Brough". Also Robin Lane Foxes "Pagans and Christians".

You have spent too much time letting others educate you. You might try truth.

Damnit the information is out there if you just take the time to poke around.

Yep, there's plenty of information out there to lead the blind around by the nose.

Question for the OP. Are you saying that these similarities to Jesus DON'T exist? Because, it's glaringly obvious that they do IMO. Again, not an exact carbon copy but there are similarities.

Originally posted by Amenti
you guys keep saying such connections exist, I am asking anyone of you to go on record here, after reading my original post, and tell us all specifically where and which similarities in fact exist.

aren't you aware that one of the links you provided points out some of the similarities on its own?

just pick one if you want, horus?

alright... which horus?

madness you seem to think dionysus is the one with the most connections. so lets hear the similarites usind texts written before the common era.

alright, connection. both are the son of patriarchal dieties and a human woman, both are involved in wine rituals

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Dionysus is Osiris.............Osiris is Nimrod.

you show the most sheer and willful ignorance towards classical mythology that i have ever seen.

how about you actually figure out something about mythological characters and their equivalents in other mythologies before you open your mouth?

hell, you can't even substantiate your bogus arguments.

sun, what about amateratsu? is amateratsu also nimrod? what about quetzocoatl?

Matrix you are the ignorant one. Connections huh? Very well here are a few.

Orsis = Adonis = Talmuz = Jesus (among others) – the dying and resurrected god.

Moses = Zoroaster = Heracles (among others) the baby in a basket, the hero cast adrift.

The stories of virgin births are inumerable.

The "life" of Jesus is a hedgepodge of interrelated mythic motifs stitched onto the actual Jesus.

I am going to find a few links that you can examine this stuff yourself.

quote]Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

alright, connection. both are the son of patriarchal dieties and a human woman, both are involved in wine rituals



is that really what your left with? your venom is diluted

you asked which Horus...take your pick, Im easy as long as the similarity you chose is from a BCE writing.

Im telling you guys you have been lied to with this and you enjoyed the hell out of it too. Anything bashing Christianity doesn’t deserve factual scrutiny with your type Deny ignorance unless it pertains to Jesus right? Smells like a Dogma in here. I would cross references you similarity points with the original post before laying them out here because If you just post what you think you know the debunkers running around these parts will have a field day with you.

Deny Ignorance

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
- hypocrite adjective

www.m-w.com...

Originally posted by grover
Matrix you are the ignorant one. Connections huh? Very well here are a few.

Orsis = Adonis = Talmuz = Jesus (among others) – the dying and resurrected god.

Moses = Zoroaster = Heracles (among others) the baby in a basket, the hero cast adrift.

I don't deny any of these links.........except for Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God......not the sun god as has come from the deceiver. And Moses is not Zoroaster..........Nimrod is.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

You need a little education in the truth. All these false gods originate in Babylon.

Nimrod = Osiris = Molech = Baal = Bel = Zeus = Marduk = Odin = Zoroaster = Dagon ETC. ETC. ETC.

Semiramis = Ishtar = Isis = Diana = Venus = Estora ETC. ETC. ETC.

Tammuz = Horus = Hercules = Thor = Krishna ETC. ETC. ETC.



I don't deny any of these things and am well versed in such..........as the list goes on and on.

These are cunningly devised fables from the deceiver to keep you form seeing the Messiah.........Jesus the Christ .........who was not born on Dec 25th. His birthday was set in the 4th century by those that took over the Christian movement.

[edit on 14-6-2007 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by Amenti
is that really what your left with? your venom is diluted

um... i never claimed that there was anything more than similarity. and if you say that there are no similarities between all of those aforementioned mythological deities and your own mythological deity you're clearly in denial

you asked which Horus...take your pick, Im easy as long as the similarity you chose is from a BCE writing.

you know what, how about i go with the monomyth theme and switch over to someone like... odin. odin's been around (in one form or another) since around 100 BCE
odin hung himself on a tree branch by his arms, basically like a crucifixion... as a sacrafice to himself (god sacraficing himself to god)... but that's about all that you'll get between odin and jesus.

Im telling you guys you have been lied to with this and you enjoyed the hell out of it too. Anything bashing Christianity doesn’t deserve factual scrutiny with your type Deny ignorance unless it pertains to Jesus right? Smells like a Dogma in here.

we haven't been lied to and we haven't lied. there are obvious similarities between jesus and other mythic figures.
can you name a single thing that jesus did that some other mythic figure didn't do before him?

yes, i implied that jesus is a myth, and i'll continue to do so until you give me factual evidence that he existed, evidence written during the supposed lifetime of the figure.

madness show us the freaking similarities already stop just telling us they exist.
maby you might want to use some of your previous claims found here on ATS just cut and paste..you didnt have that much trouble making the connections before my post appparently.

Originally posted by Amenti
madness show us the freaking similarities already stop just telling us they exist.

God was his father. This was believed to be literally true in the case of Osiris-Dionysus; their God came to earth and engaged in sexual intercourse with a human. The father of Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.

He was born in a cave or cowshed. Luke 2:7 mentions that Jesus was placed in a manger - an eating trough for animals. One early Christian tradition said that the manger was in a cave.

At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.His followers were born-again through baptism in water.He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.He had 12 disciples.

He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world."He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross. After death, he descended into hell.On the third day after his death, he returned to life.

www.religioustolerance.org...

Originally posted by Amenti
madness show us the freaking similarities already stop just telling us they exist.

look
in
the
first
link
you
sent
us

maby you might want to use some of your previous claims found here on ATS just cut and paste..you didnt have that much trouble making the connections before my post appparently.

maybe i'm just... tired, bored, sick of having to repeat the same points

how about this:
buddhism preached all the good points jesus made over a hundred years before he SUPPOSEDLY existed
mithra in certain traditions was born of a virgin (not in the orthodox view you gave), spent most of his fictional life as a travelling teacher, healed the sick/injured, and had 12 apostle like figures.

I wash my hands of this thread.

Go ahead take your ball and go home I know this is hard on you guys
Replys are sourced from the links below

Originally posted by etshrtslr

God was his father. This was believed to be literally true in the case of Osiris-Dionysus; their God came to earth and engaged in sexual intercourse with a human. The father of Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.

VIRGIN BIRTH There are two birth accounts concerning Dionysus (neither implies a virgin birth):
1. Zeus impregnates a mortal woman, Semele, much to the jealously of Hera. Hera convinces Semele to ask Zeus to reveal his glory to her
but because no mortal can look upon the gods and live, Semele is instantly incinerated. Zeus then takes the fetal Dionysus and sews him
into his own thigh until his birth.

2. Dionysus is the product of Zeus and Persephone. Hera becomes insanely jealous and tries to destroy the infant by sending the Titans to kill
him. Zeus comes to the rescue but it's too late- the Titans had eaten everything but Dionysus' heart. Zeus then takes the heart and implants
it into the womb of Semele. As we can see, no virgin birth takes place but this is how Dionysus is said to have become a rebirth deity as he
is twice born in the womb.

Originally posted by etshrtslr

At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.His followers were born-again through baptism in water.He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.He had 12 disciples.

WATER INTO WINE Dionysus was the god of mythology who gave King Midas the power to turn whatever he touched into gold. Likewise, he gave
the daughters of King Anius the power to turn whatever they touched into wine, cor n, or oil. Considering Dionysus was the god of wine, this should come as no surprise. Regardless, though there are tales where Dionysus supernaturally fills empty vessels with wine, the act of turning water into wine does not occur.
TRIUMPHANT ENTRY Critics claim Dionysus is often pictured as riding a donkey amid crowds waving branches of ivy. However, this is only a
description of his regular entourage who traveled with him (not a specific pre-passion entry). These individuals were maenads and satyrs who
would follow Dionysus with branches entwined with ivy and grapes- cult symbols representative of the wine god. Jesus on the other hand had a
specific triumphant entry upon entering Jerusalem while human crowds waved palm branches (Jewish symbols). I also found a messianic
prophecy in Genesis 49:11 (written in approximately 1400 B.C.- way before Dionysus) which foretells Jesus (literally) tethering his donkey with a
vine and (symbolically) washing his robes in wine (a reference to His death). Not that I am accusing the Greeks/Romans of creating a deity
around a single Bible passage, but if we want to get technical, the Bible groups these three objects together long before Dionysus was a twinkle in
the eyes of mythology.
Etshrtslr cant seem to find anything about his 12 deciples are you sure you didn’t get your lies mixed up?

Originally posted by etshrtslr

He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world."He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross. After death, he descended into hell.On the third day after his death, he returned to life.

He was simply called 'Young Man of the Tree'. How does that suggest he was hung on a tree or crucified?
The "resurrection" account of Dionysus stems from the tale of him being reborn after his attack by the Titans. As we can see, this
has nothing to do with the resurrection story of Jesus. Furthermore, we are told after Dionysus completes teaching his followers his religious rites,
he ascends to Mount Olympus to be with the other deities- alive and well.

continuing......
His infant rebirth, like Attis, is symbolic of the vegetation cycle- not the
atoning of sin.

Originally posted by etshrtslr

He was born in a cave or cowshed. Luke 2:7 mentions that Jesus was placed in a manger - an eating trough for animals. One early Christian tradition said that the manger was in a cave.

"the word usually translated as 'stable' in the gospels is katalemna, which literally means a temporary shelter or cave." [32] Where they get this definition is unclear. The word in question is what is translated as "inn" (as in, "no room at the...") in Luke, and is also found in Mark 14:14 (which by Freke and Gandy's idea, actually reads, "And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the temporary shelter or cave, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?")

www.pantheon.org...
www.gods-heros-myth.com...
homepage.mac.com...
www.tektonics.org...
homepage.mac.com...
www.mythweb.com...
kingdavid8.com...
www.thedevineevidence.com...

Well, I suspect that Jesus was quite aware of the mystery schools in Egypt, so, it's really not any surprise to me that there would be parallels. As far as using these parallels to prove that "Jesus didn't exist," or whatever, I think is kind of ludicrous.

If one does any comparative religious study, one realizes pretty quickly that there is a direct link between all religions in the world, I don't care if you are practicing Shamanism or Hobotism, they have similarities.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

If one does any comparative religious study, one realizes pretty quickly that there is a direct link between all religions in the world, I don't care if you are practicing Shamanism or Hobotism, they have similarities.

yes one does, but one apparently has a hell of a hard time showing the specifics as it relates to Jesus....look Im not saying that you guys dont have a library of books at your house that tell you about how some such God was born of a virgin, and died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, and was resurrected on the third day etc etc Im just saying that They apparently (see for yourself) dont stand up to even the most simplistic scrutiny I know you think your have been proven these claims but look again ...someone PLEASE show me AFTER at l going through the links I originally provided that the similarities you claim are there. just pick one kirisha, horus, whatever

Several years ago, when I was at the Louvre museum in Paris, I saw any number of statues of Isis, Horus and Osiris in a "holy trinity" style - baby Horus on Isis lap with Osiris right behind. THese statues were made about 1,000 B.C. The Catholic church later took this symbolism and made it into Mary, Joseph and Jesus, exact same positions and styles. So there is one little bit of evidence that Christianity contains some aspects of previous religions.
We also know that Mithraism was very popular among the Roman soldiers, before Jesus and and it continued after him. Among scholars who study such things (and they are Jewish, agnostic, Christian, a wide variety of religions) it is common knowledge that Paul the Apostle took some elements of other religions to weave them into Christianity. There are Egyptian elements (as stated above), Mithraic elements and Judaism elements most prominently. It is also well-known that the early Catholic Church borrowed Pagan holy days and just renamed them, so the Pagans at the time would become part of the Church.

Originally posted by grover
I wash my hands of this thread.

I don't blame you. You're way out of your league. You have received your education by those that seek to keep you from the truth. You read a few books by some blind clowns whose intent is to keep you in blindness.

You walk in blindness being led by the blind thinking you have understanding.

Where do you think all these false gods come from? The deceiver whose purpose is to keep you from seeing the Messiah.

The Christian movement was taken over by the Romans when they could not kill all the Christians. If you can't beat them.........take control of them.

The Vatican is the very place that the Christians were executed.

In 321 Constantine changed the day of worship commanded by God to Sunday to worship the sun god...........Lucifer.......the bringer of light.......and Satan appears as an angel of light.

You need an education in truth.....try the KJV.

[edit on 14-6-2007 by Sun Matrix]