BlackWater USA

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
It no secret and I'm not going to hide what I made. When I was active duty Army as an E6 I made $1300 a month = ALMOST $16,000 annually. I worked 12 months for B-USA and returned stateside with $193,550. Average contract for a qualified soldier is $180,000 for a 12 month assignment. Can be much higher depending on skill, tradecraft, etc...

Base Pay for an E-6 is $2519.40 / month if you have 6 years of sevice or
$30228. so your figures dont jive with reality, I was curious about your post because I am a medically retired veteran E-5 with 13 years in service
and you were claiming that an E-6 on active duty made less money.
An E-1 private makes $1300/ month. The only way that someone would only make $1300 / month with 6 years in would be as an E-1, which only happens when you get court martialed and dishonorably discarged.

So I am thinking you dont know what your talking about or being deliberately deceptive as to your service.

US Military Pay Scales

[edit on 7/11/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

[edit on 7/11/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

Why is it noone on this site ever uses common sence and NEVER asks for employment dates! DarkStorm here is my pay scale from 2000 when I was an E6 @ 5 years service, and yes I was off a bit, i made more like $1800 a month...whoopy! forgive me for not remembering that I made $500 more then I quoted.

www.dfas.mil... arypaypriorrates/01-00.pdf

Times have changed, and pay rates are going up...but not nearly as much as they should be. Anyway, still solidifies why I accepted a private contract. And lastly, before you queston my service and NOT check your facts (like WHEN I served) you should keep your mouth shut! And 13 years service and an E5, what MOS?

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
Why is it noone on this site ever uses common sence and NEVER asks for employment dates! DarkStorm here is my pay scale from 2000 when I was an E6 @ 5 years service, and yes I was off a bit, i made more like $1800 a month...whoopy! forgive me for not remembering that I made $500 more then I quoted.

www.dfas.mil... arypaypriorrates/01-00.pdf

Times have changed, and pay rates are going up...but not nearly as much as they should be. Anyway, still solidifies why I accepted a private contract. And lastly, before you queston my service and NOT check your facts (like WHEN I served) you should keep your mouth shut! And 13 years service and an E5, what MOS?

I entered service in 1979 initial MOS 16H Air Defense Operations and Intellegence analyst
served in that MOS until September of 1987 ETSed and went into the National Guard 1 year term 95B Military Police
Reentered the Service in November 1988 MOS 96B lntelllgence Analyst Medically discarged in 1993.

Units served with HHB 1/1st ADA Battalion, 3/52nd ADA Battaliion, 190th MP Company (NG) 319th MI Battalion(A)

thats my history

5 years to E-6 raises my curiosity what MOS?

Please dont tell me to keep my mouth shut, I am asking you to clarify.

shadow_soldier You have changed my view of what our mercenaries are, Ashamed to say I believed the yellow press. If I were well, I would be over there fighting with you. My blood is there with you. Hang in there, keep doing a good job, and NEVER EVER violate your ethics. Even though you put your life on the line every day to protect civilians and to get us out of the mess the Bush government funded and instigated, never forget that there are some pretty dastardly people in nearly every military organization. Do not be decieved nor drawn in. No matter how many times your compatriots or commanders save your life, don't form loyalties with any who are decietful or cruel, and never give them cause for blackmail. Your conduct must be above reproach. I deal with the bad guys at home in our own government daily, and I confess, we are not currently making any headway. Watch your back. We need thinking people like you when you get home. I was black ops, highly decorated, but Thank God never pulled a really long assignment. I'd just like to think I contributed. My rank was/is always subject to drastic change because I speak the truth and I refused to jeopardize my teams for no clear objective--fighting smart not hard can get a person all the barbed wire you can eat regular Army! I don't know all you're going thru man, all the sights and sounds, it will be with you for the rest of your life. But you'll be able to handle it if you keep a clean concience. You'll be able to sleep at night and go on and have a family, a life, all the things that matter and that make life dear and sweet and worth having lived it. It's a dirty job. I don't envy you it. Stay Strong. and don't let adrenaline make you do anything stupid or that you'll carry with you later. There are people who, if they can, would manipulate you to take away your humanity. They look at soldiers, even elite, highly paid ones, as laboratory rats. Remember why you're there, to serve and to protect, Don't let them. "mom"

Wow this was a nasty exchange. I have to speak in Defense for Shadow.

Let me start by saying BlackWater only hires the cream of the crop, real shooters, from high speed units through out the military. Units like Delta, SEALS, Rangers, SF, Force Recon, Fleet Counter Terror, FAC's, PJ's, Airborne, 160th/Nightstalkers, to name a few. I have never worked for BW but I have been in the same field and worked with some like companies and players in the game.

So if a person is employed by BW it can be assumed that they are a high speed low drag shooter, not a support troop.

To validate Shadow, I am ex Military and I have worked the private side of the industry in the 90’s. After talking to Shadow I feel safe to say that he is the real deal. He was in a high speed combat unit where it is not uncommon to have young E-5’s and E-6’s. Usually combat units have high turnover and you will see younger NCO’s

Shadow is right, it is a “Wild World” out there, I love that song. I could tell you stories of infants trying to feed from their mother’s breast, while the mother lay in a ditch with her head cut off. I have seen places that made a Mad Max movie look like a pacifist anti war convention.

I know even with it being such an evil world, it still does not make what I did, what other did, or what others will do till the day this planet farts out right. But we do things in our lives because we feel it is right or justifiable. I feel many of us are born with the ability to do certain things and do them well. Combat is one of those things.

I don’t care what others say soldiers, mercs, freedom fighters, what ever the name, do it for the feeling, It is not the rush like many think , it is having all your problems and worries lifted, living in Primal realm, where daily life is survival, and so simple, and I must say some of the best days of my life. Here is a relevant story; when I was a Law Enforcement Officer I was a field training officer. And on the first night with a new rookie I would ask why they wanted to be a cop. And you know what, all but 2 answered correctly in my book, most said they wanted to serve their community. I would stop the car and tell them to get out and drive off till they found the courage to call me on the radio and come pick them up. The answer I was looking for was: To Hunt Scumbags at all hours of the night, Drive fast cars, carry guns, Dish out beatings when needed, Do the things and go to the places others feared, sacrifice family, sacrifice safety, sacrifice health, and sacrifice life. Just like being a soldier. I know some will make a comment about carrying a gun. What was meant by that is that I accepted the fact that I was ready to use that gun and I will use it when needed, not that I carried the gun because I have self esteem issues or small body parts.

But with that comes the down side to private war, physical injury, mental injury, loss of friends, loss of family, loss of self respect, loss of citizenship, loss of money, prison, to name a few.

Yes, money is nice. I wish I made the money that they are paying now.

I am not in support of the war, I am against it. I am not a fan of Blackwater, I fear their growth and power. I fear the people who allowed and helped Blackwater grow.

Please do not take Shadow wrong. His life is full of honor and commitment.

I know some of you are against war and all that it represents and I respect you for it.

I also respect those who let it all hang out like Shadow.

I hope you all have a great night or day and I look forward to reading your posts and chatting in future post.

First let me apologize Dark for saying, Keep your mouth shut! As a fellow soldier, no matter MOS or role you were atleast man enough to step forward and defend the greatest country on earth. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm still a little pissed that people don't take the time to simply ASK and find out things before they make assumptions. As for my E6 in 5 years..I was an 11B, 1/75th Ranger Battalion. It is the NORM to get PLDC in 3 years then off to BNOC within the Regiment. That and I was deployed to Kosovo & Bosnia which shot the promotions up quicker. It is definitly NOT anything suprising to have E5's and E6's in the Regiment under our 6 year contract obligation.
And again, I do respect your willingness to serve.

fatlady, thank you for the support and understanding that not everyone are just "killers" as the media and MOST people on these boards presumes. there are people out there who are trigger happy and do things they shouldn't. Control under stress is something that cannot always be forseen, no matter how seasoned the soldier/shooter. People believe we are just there killing ANYTHING in the name of BUSH, what they don't take the time to learn is WE aren't there for bush...we are there to of course earn a nice paycheck, but MOST importantly rid the planet of scumbags. People will say what they want, but at the end of the day when I have killed 5 suicide bombers, 3 insurgents who use their own kids as shields, and 1 terrorist recruiter who tells 10 year old kids to strap this on your chest because he is to chicken **** to do it himself, I feel damn good.

and finally to my fellow brother JSTRONG, I appreciate the words bro, having an understanding of the "Wild World" out there is usually the reason they DO NOT understand what we do. They never see the headless bodies, the blown up babies, the guts of a man spread out on the paths/roads. They don't see the lives these people live and the REAL things that are NEVER seen on the news. This world is far more brutal then most will ever know and it's just who I am inside to NOT sit back and let it happen. JSTRONG having been there you understand my mindset, and my motivation...the fact that someone is willing to pay me well enough during it all is just a bonus. Ridding the world of truly terrible people, thats whats worth while.

Another point. In the world of private military operations, the BW missions are dream jobs; it does not get any better. First the pay offered is great, nothing has compared, when you talk about straight pay, some shooters have earned more money or items on top of the agreed pay or worked other jobs into the agreement, but nothing like BW. I have seen some cases where the shooters were new to the private side and showed up on site and conducted operations without seeing the first penny. I have seen the same shooters work an entire assignment on the promise of money and at the end or near the end of the assignment they were arrested or deported.

So to get your money and not worry about if or when you would be paid is great. Also to get actual life and medical insurance is beyond belief, it has never happened prior to BW taking on assignments.

And to get the support of a major power in the world just blows my mind. I don't think there is anything that would compare how the US supports these assignments.

To have the support and access to the US Military during an assignment is mind blowing to me. Usually private assignments get no official support let alone military support. I could count many times that an AC130 gunship would have ended any resistance during an assignment and gained complete compliance from the occupants of the area of operation.

The norm for these private assignments before BW and EO/Executive Outcomes and later Sandline was so up in the air. Hell 10 years ago when EO was at its prime, they made only a small fraction of what BW makes. But EO still made good money for the day and they got some other perks off the books.

I would be lucky when I got home after an assignment if I had a couple thousand dollars, during most private military assignments; the shooters have to secure transportation to and from the site. And sometimes there are not direct routes to the site and it can cost some big bucks to get local transportation. And some of areas that you must travel through may not embrace you as nicely.

And BW is not the first to do this. Israeli firms have been doing this for close to 40 years. Some Israeli firms have worked for some of the worst figures in the world, Drug Cartels in good old Columbia, African Dictators, and Russian organized crime to name a few. Brit and French firms have been doing this for years. Exxon has hired Firms for years with their oil production. Heck I know some Ex Army SF guys who work bodyguard details for Organized crime in the Russian republic of Georgia. Its all about what kind of deal you can get for yourself, there were no packages deals a few years ago, and if you accepted a package deal you were dumb.

And to be honest I was treated better on the private side than I was in the US Army. I was a bigger guy but very fit and muscular, I scored 285 on my APFT when maxing your PT test you needed 300, I averaged 2 hours 30 minutes on my 12 mile road march with full pack, gear and weapon, it was a respectable time and I had problems with Army height and weight standards and it caused a lot grief and effected me professionally, this was never an issue on the private side.



The private side of the business was a very dirty and dangerous activity and I have to say that BW has changed things. I don’t like BW but I wish they were around in my day.

Again I hope you all have a great day.

First let me apologize Dark for saying, Keep your mouth shut! As a fellow soldier, no matter MOS or role you were atleast man enough to step forward and defend the greatest country on earth.Now, don't get me wrong, I'm still a little pissed that people don't take the time to simply ASK and find out things before they make assumptions. As for my E6 in 5 years..I was an 11B, 1/75th Ranger Battalion. It is the NORM to get PLDC in 3 years then off to BNOC within the Regiment. That and I was deployed to Kosovo & Bosnia which shot the promotions up quicker. It is definitly NOT anything suprising to have E5's and E6's in the Regiment under our 6 year contract obligation.

16H back in the day was not necessarily a soft MOS. Most of my time was spent in the field humping Redeye and Stinger around with with the 11Bs in the 3rd and 8th ID.
Promotions didnt come quickly either most made E-5/Spec 5 back then with around 6 years TIS. I made it in 5 thanks to a fortunate drop in promotion points in the fall of 1984.
Having gottten out and then going back in after a year in the Guard 95B in the guard (also non starter for quick promotion) I went back in as a E-4/Spec 4 again.
MI School back then was pretty long I think it was 48 weeks or something close to that so thats basically another year and then promoted back to E-5/SGT in 1989.
I served in Desert Shield/Desert Storm in 90-91 where I was unfortunate to catch a bullet in the hip from a wannabe sniper. So I have seen combat and have seen friends die. I spent most of 92 and 93 recovering and learning how to walk again. (the AK round shattered my pelvis)I could have stayed in but I chose to medically retire rather than fly a desk for 7 years.

I can remember when retiring as an E-7 was a good career in military and many didnt make E-6 until around 10-12 years or so. If I had made E-6 in 6 years I would have definately stayed in.

I understand that now it is common for some to make E-6 in as few as 6 years. I found that unusal so I questioned it. $1300 a month for E-6 I found unusual so again I questioned it. Times have changed the Military alot it seems.

Whatever your MOS is doesnt matter your still just as dead wether your a 11B or a 56M.

Back to the thread topic as a former soldier I would never accept a private contract from Dynacorp or Blackwater ( and they have offered as have several other outfits). My kids are fighting this war so I already have blood on the line there.

I would rather fight for country than for money I know several Vietnam Vets who tried the mercenary gig back in Rhodesia in the 70s and lost thier benefits for based on some law about fighting for a former government. Some Vets may find that if they stay in Iraq after the US military leaves (should they be forced by Congress to leave) might find that they will loose thier benefits under the same law if it still applies.

I actually find the proliferation of PMCs to be disturbing. Most of these guys outside of the security specialists arent necessarily high speed low drag types some of them couldnt make it in the real military and some have serious attitude issues which is why they arent in the real military.
I said most not all.

I am the proud father of 68D Oldest Daughter, 21B Oldest Son, and 11B Youngest Son.