Looks like Water on Mars to me!

Originally posted by zorgon
And here is my pages on the Blueberries for people who actually do research

landoflegends.us...

is that site yours? or did you write that?

That is a lot of great info!

thanks
Daniel

I personally (not to :flame believe that there is no liquid water on Mars (except for under the ice cap, perhaps). I also believe that there is no life higher than microbes (anaerobic bacteria or possibly archaebacteria).

My reasoning?

-Pictures taken by the rover are not taken in typical visible spectra. They use infra-red and ultra-violet, as well as nightvision techniques. Basically, what looks like water could very well just be sand or a dry clay.
-The "footprints" of the rover that are well defined could be in clay, not mud. Clay can be entirely dry, it just needed water at some point in order to form (grain size of soil must decrease to a finer consistency).
-The temperatures on Mars reach 500 deg(C or F I forget, still high) in the day and -500 deg at night. Without an atmosphere it is impossible to contain the heat required for this stuff.
-If NASA was doctoring their shots, why would they bother releasing them? It's not public domain, you know.
-Furthermore, wouldn't we have been ecstatic way back in the 60's and 70's if there were in fact aliens? The facts we know about the surface of Mars and the other planets in our Solar System are correct. Alien contact would have been a milestone for humanity and Marsianity so there's nothing to have been hidden.

These are just the facts I base MY opinion on, take 'em or leave 'em.

Originally posted by pondrthis

-The temperatures on Mars reach 500 deg(C or F I forget, still high) in the day and -500 deg at night. Without an atmosphere it is impossible to contain the heat required for this stuff.

Surface temp.:

Celsius/Fahrenheit
min −87°C/−125°F
mean −46°C/−51°F
max −5°C/23°F



Wikipedia Mars

There has been higher temperatures measured lately but these are the ones on wikipedia

[edit on 11/6/07 by Gonjo]

you're right, sorry about that. Good call denying ignorance. Actually, reading the article gives above-freezing temperatures in the summer at its hottest points. About room temperature.

Thanks for correcting me, but my point is it's not very hospitable to liquid water.

^
^^...and it's not really the temperatures that make Mars inhospitable to liquid water (on its surface), but instead it's the extremely low atmospheric pressures. The air pressure is so low on Mars that liquid water almost immediatly turns into water vapor as soon as it is exposed. I don't doubt liquid water exists underground or under the ice cap, or even that liquid water can exist for a few moments on the surface. But it is impossible for water to be exposed to those low pressures and remain as a liquid...it should all turn to water vapor.

Here on Earth, one of the things keeping our water in its liquid state is air pressure. If you put a beaker of water into a vacuum chamber, it begins to evaporate into water vapor, as if it is boiling (without the heat). Granted -- Mars' air pressure isn't that of a vacuum, but it is very low.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

good point there. it's definitely true that the partial pressure on earth caused by water's vapor pressure is very high; thus not only can water not exist in its liquid form on Mars, but if there was a huge amount of water as others are saying, the pressure on Mars would thus be higher. Just simply pointing out the "if and only if" part of this pressure point (haha).

Yes, but:

There are 5 five distinct regions where we might sometimes find surface water: in the Amazonis, Chryse and Elysium Planitia, in the Hellas Basin and the Argyre Basin. Together they comprise about 30% of the planet's surface. That's not to say that liquid water really does exist in those places, just that it could."

Conditions would be favorable for liquid water only during the martian day. The temperature falls precipitously at night, so any liquid would re-freeze. At the Viking lander sites, for example, instruments registered temperatures as high as -17 C in the air and +27 °C in the soil on sunlit summer days. After sunset, thermometer readings plunged back to -60 °C or below.

nasa


* what about enhancing effects of salts :

Again, however, the liquidity-enhancing effects of salts were not considered. Solutes may lower the melting point of water by more than 10° C, will reduce the rate of sublimation of ice, and will raise the boiling point. If liquid water does form, it will pool in low areas and expose a much lower surface than that of the ice from which it formed. The evaporation rate would be reduced proportional to the reduction of the surface area. As long as the total atmospheric pressure exceeds the triple point, liquid water will not boil, and, if formed, could exist on the surface for a biologically significant time.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by blue bird]

This is interesting I have not heard about this one yet. The last I heard about possible water on Mars, was when Spirit kick up soil rich with silica,

news.yahoo.com...

which I believe was no longer than a month ago...This must be a very recent discovery. Very cool I need to investigate and read about it more though.

I can't seem to find this article on the NASA website.

Here is the latest information NASA has on its Spirit and Opportunity rovers.

www.nasa.gov...

I believe at one time there was liquid water on Mars, but certainly not now....This latest image of silica that Spirit kicked up is possible evidence of that.

www.nasa.gov...

Go to the bottom of this page (right side last picture headline) and click Mars as art and you can see the beautiful pictures the rovers took and they have a description of what it is and how it came to be....Much more credible information.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by Tetraspace]

Guys...

Who honestly thinks there is PURE WATER on Mars? To all you guys saying water can't exist because it's too cold or the atmosphere is too thin, have you even considered the reality that if water IS on Mars, it won't be pure H2O?

When calcium chloride (a salt) mixes with water, it can stay liquid to -50 degrees F below 0. It also can remain liquid under MUCH lower atmospheric pressures since water takes a VERY LONG TIME to sublimate when it's super cold.

So, in short, water mixed with calcium chloride at a temperature of -50 degree F can stay in liquid form for a long, long time.

That's if you actually believe the BS that NASA feeds you about the Martian atmosphere.

We have photos of ample clouds on Mars. We have photos of storms raging on Mars. Winds are so powerful, they can turn up dust storms that coat the entire planet. An extensive atmosphere is painfully visible from shots taken from space. It's completely obvious that the 6 millibar figure we are given is totally fabricated. I fully believe that Mars' atmosphere is much thicker than what we are being told. It may not be as thick as the Earth's, but mark my words, it's thicker. I believe:

1.) There is ample water on the surface of Mars
2.) There is definitely some type of microbial life on Mars
3.) The daytime sky of Mars is blue
4.) The atmosphere is much thicker than the figure we are given

I'm still up in the air about the temperatures being true figures.

A lot of you guys have no problem putting blind faith in NASA, a government organization that clearly tampers with images and flat out lies to us (along with every other government organization out there). I don't know about you guys, but I have a huge problem believing everything I hear like some lap dog. Do your research and form your own opinions. It's pretty clear that there is much more to Mars than meets the eye and someone is lying to us about something.

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
Guys...

Who honestly thinks there is PURE WATER on Mars? To all you guys saying water can't exist because it's too cold or the atmosphere is too thin, have you even considered the reality that if water IS on Mars, it won't be pure H2O?

When calcium chloride (a salt) mixes with water, it can stay liquid to -50 degrees F below 0. It also can remain liquid under MUCH lower atmospheric pressures since water takes a VERY LONG TIME to sublimate when it's super cold.

So, in short, water mixed with calcium chloride at a temperature of -50 degree F can stay in liquid form for a long, long time.

That's if you actually believe the BS that NASA feeds you about the Martian atmosphere.

We have photos of ample clouds on Mars. We have photos of storms raging on Mars. Winds are so powerful, they can turn up dust storms that coat the entire planet. An extensive atmosphere is painfully visible from shots taken from space. It's completely obvious that the 6 millibar figure we are given is totally fabricated. I fully believe that Mars' atmosphere is much thicker than what we are being told. It may not be as thick as the Earth's, but mark my words, it's thicker. I believe:

1.) There is ample water on the surface of Mars
2.) There is definitely some type of microbial life on Mars
3.) The daytime sky of Mars is blue
4.) The atmosphere is much thicker than the figure we are given

I'm still up in the air about the temperatures being true figures.

A lot of you guys have no problem putting blind faith in NASA, a government organization that clearly tampers with images and flat out lies to us (along with every other government organization out there). I don't know about you guys, but I have a huge problem believing everything I hear like some lap dog. Do your research and form your own opinions. It's pretty clear that there is much more to Mars than meets the eye and someone is lying to us about something.

I don't put blind faith into anything....

NASA would not lie to us, there could be a possibility that they are not allowed to share all the information gathered from their research. Some information is too sensitive and needs to be carefully evaluated before it is released to the public. NASA is a scientific community, it is not focused on cover-ups and concealing information. Without the government NASA would not have the funding it needs to pursue its research. Your opinion on Mars is a good one, but what information and research do you have to back it up?

Failure is not an option!




[edit on 11-6-2007 by Tetraspace]

Originally posted by Tetraspace
I don't put blind faith into anything....

NASA would not lie to us....

That kind of conviction, to absolutely rule out NASA not capable or would NOT lie.....

To rule that out completely....

Yeah, that's blind faith.

Originally posted by pondrthis
you're right, sorry about that. Good call denying ignorance. Actually, reading the article gives above-freezing temperatures in the summer at its hottest points. About room temperature.

Thanks for correcting me, but my point is it's not very hospitable to liquid water

.

You are right. The surface seems to be somewhat inhospitable to liquid water.

However, consider that the terra firma is actually a saturated sponge. All the water on Mars exists just beneath the surface. The entire planet is muddy, and the deeper you go the more muddy it gets. The planet absorbed the oceans.

Perhaps this is the way Mars works. Perhaps water will flow on the surface when the Solar System travels through some exotic matter, or the Sun behaves in a particular way.

Above all, to understand what we are seeing we have to quit saying "That cannot be, because (insert reference to some Earthbound phenomenon)"

I hear an entire choir telling me that Mars cannot have life, cannot have water, because some chickenhead at NASA says this, or says that. daily we are finding how wrong NASA has (admittedly) been about various aspects. Many people believe that they are stooping to subterfuge to conceal some grander truth. I happen to be one such person, if it matters.

If you are going to object, you must object because of some thought that has considered "out of the box" information and concepts. You cannot keep assuming that anything you currently know applies in any context. That is overly presumptive, and the fatal flaw of science currently.

Tetra, is your avatar a picture of you? Hot brainy chick alert!!!!!
This is line 2

Originally posted by promomag

Originally posted by Tetraspace
I don't put blind faith into anything....

NASA would not lie to us....

That kind of conviction, to absolutely rule out NASA not capable or would NOT lie.....

To rule that out completely....

Yeah, that's blind faith.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't laugh out loud at that

Originally posted by jra
Shocking! The world must be coming to an end.

So they tell me... but if enough people wish the world to end in 2012... will it?

And yes I do believe it's close to true colour.

That ESA image was not the one I was referring to. I shall cover that when I get back

Originally posted by JackRubyI'm not a geologist but isn't it entirely possible that hematite be deposited through a natural process of fossilization.

I am and no Hematite is not formed by fossilization

"definitely formed by water" does not sound very open minded

True its not IF they are Hematite in sedimetary rock they are formed by water

The fossil record contains millions of organisms that would be considered delicate or "soft".

True but they are still "rare" and you are not likely to find billions of them... Here is a field of blueberries...


Here are some more close up



And here you can see the sedimentary rock. I love the way they rolled out in neat little lines like a string of pearls



Now if its an open mind you want how about some Annunaki opened a Stargate at the bottom of the Martian Ocean and sent all that water to Earth causing the flood Wipe out two planets with one step and it explains where the water went on Mars and where it came from on Earth

A little too crazy huh?


[edit on 12-6-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Tetraspace
I don't put blind faith into anything....

NASA would not lie to us

When you no longer believe your second statement, your first statement may actually be true. Until then, keep investigating. You'll come around.

Originally posted by DollyDagger
is that site yours? or did you write that?

Site is mine, yup but the writing and info is contributed by many people

Here is the main menu... There are many more additions coming soon... just haven't had time to add it all yet

Pegasus Menu

Originally posted by pondrthis
-The temperatures on Mars reach 500 deg(C or F I forget, still high) in the day and -500 deg at night. Without an atmosphere it is impossible to contain the heat required for this stuff.

Where on Earth errrr Mars did you come up with those figures???

NASA says -250 C and +80F 500 degrees???? I would love to see your data on that

It's not public domain, you know.

All NASA released images ARE public domain and they are bound by the Freedom of Information Act

Too bad the FOIA has loop holes

-Furthermore, wouldn't we have been ecstatic way back in the 60's and 70's if there were in fact aliens?

Us here at ATS most likely IF they were friendly But the majority of the world would go crazy if they new Aliens existed. Just look at the broadcast of "War of the Worlds" in 1938...

But we are not talking about Aliens here... we are talking about WATER

The facts we know about the surface of Mars and the other planets in our Solar System are correct.

The "facts we know" are changing daily as new facts are discovered