Looks like Water on Mars to me!

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by DollyDagger

would there be ripples on mars (wind?)

Does this answer your question?

“The problem is, there are winds on Mars….

space.newscientist.com

ah yes thank you. that was a fast reply too, i appreciate. thanks again

Daniel

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by promomag
Did any of you look at the high resolution image?

Of course, the answer to that would be a resounding "NO!"

After actually having looked at the high resolution stereo photo (just cross your eyes to see the 3-D effect) I tend to think that it isn't water, simply because the levels are wrong. Unless there's some kind of fast running stream from a spring there, the water wouldn't remain very long in the upper channels, yet there seems to be plenty of it there. Which leads me to think that maybe it's just fine dust or carbon dioxide snow.

The false color image does a lot to fool you into thinking it's water, but I don't think it is.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]

It could be some sort of underground spring with that top almost perfect Rectangular canal looking thing as the source. It looks like ripples from there and that seems to be a dead end.


I think this is a great find.

Originally posted by jra
Note that this is a false colour image. The blue area isn't necessarily water, not all of it anyway. I don't deny that there is water on Mars, but personally, I don't really see anything in this image that could be water. But here's hoping they come across similar features again and can test this further.

Hold on to yer hat JRA... this time I must agree with you... that particular image is showing fine hematite nodules almost sand like. I have others in the set and you can see it clearly...

As to water on Mars, its already being discussed with MANY examples of water on Mars...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Summary website of Bluebirds Martian water research

landoflegends.us...

ESA image of a Lake on Mars




See ya at the other thread


OH BTW JRA... That is actually pretty close to real color But its to early to reveal that source

Originally posted by ATSGUY
what are thos really fine blue things they are like small bubbles, and that does look like muddy water to me. I dont no why only a small portion was found i mean the mars rover must be near more of this strange phenomenon..Oh well maybe in time.

Maybe in time???? ARRGGGGG How about a litlte research?

Okay "fine blue things" = "Blueberries" (Nasa's term) = Hematite Nodules that were most likely formed in water and are now weathering out of the sedimentary rock. There is a formation like that in Utah...

"only a small portion found" = an area the size of the state of Oklahoma... It was read spectroscopicly as a field of Hematite and was the reason the Rover landed there...

Here is a close up of the same area...



Here is a REAL closeup of the "Blueberries" (Named by a Nasa scientist because they looked like blueberries in a muffin) ( And this is why they get the big bucks)



Here is the are covered by these spheres... (The oval was the target landing zone for Opportunity




And here is my pages on the Blueberries for people who actually do research
landoflegends.us...

Originally posted by Leyla
I must be crazy.. I thought the mars surface was red. I'm not biting on this one.

If you believe everything on Mars is red... then yes you must definitely be crazy

Here are some muddy Rover Tracks...



And here are some more...



Now I shall go back to the main Water on Mars thread that we have been working the past few weeks

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seriously...there are 35 some odd pages. There is lots of good info. almost every question posited in this thread has already been discussed. There are many, many different aspects of Mars discussed there...like the new "face" on mars:

The surface of the puddles is very, very smooth - the edges are all the same level and what you can see in the image I cropped from the large image - IT'S TRANSPARENT - BLUEBERRY IS CLEARLY VISIBLE!

* blueberries visible

* rotated image -diff. color : ripples on smooth surface - transparency of water material : berries and soil are visible





[edit on 10-6-2007 by blue bird]

looks like water and mud to me,

[edit on 10-6-2007 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
looks like water and mud to me,

[edit on 10-6-2007 by Stormdancer777]

Welcome, Stormdancer. Was wondering when you would find me.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
It could be some sort of underground spring with that top almost perfect Rectangular canal looking thing as the source. It looks like ripples from there and that seems to be a dead end.

I think this is a great find.

It's interesting, but I tend to think that it's very fine dust, maybe "blueberry" dust. Here's a picture that I think shows the lay of the land that shows up when you look at the 3-D image. Assuming water flows the same way on Mars that it does on Earth (i.e., downhill), there's no place where the water seems to be coming from. At least not in the amounts necessary to fill up the channels.

There's not enough "water" coming from anywhere to fill up the channels, and when it gets to where it's going, it doesn't fill up the lower-lying areas. And there are little channels that are on high areas that shouldn't have any fluid in them at all, yet they seem to.

Here's a non-color enhanced photo that hopefully shows it a little better, without fooling the eye into thinking it's water. Looking at the 3-D images really tells the tale.



[edit on 10-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Just FYI, one of the authors of this paper is Ron Levin, son of Gil Levin who was the PI on the Viking Labeled Release Life Detection Experiment. Gil has been claiming that his experiment confirmed that there was microbial life on Mars. Most other scientists disagree. Ron Levin has been claiming that photographs from Viking and the current probes have been falsely altered by NASA to hide a blue sky (again, to the contrary to the opinion of many scientists).

Oh, and regarding the "ripples" people seem to see in the photo, here's your chance to do a little science. Take a dinner plate and fill it with a bit of water. Now blow on it hard and see what kind of ripples it produces. Does it produce relatively large, uneven ripples, or does it make tiny little regular ripples that fan out from reflection points?

And don't you think if the wind was blowing hard enough to produce big ripples in one of the little channels, it might make them in all the channels?

That should give you a clue that maybe your brain is making up stories to match what you think you see.

Ain't science fun?

[edit on 10-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Oh, and regarding the "ripples" people seem to see in the photo, here's your chance to do a little science. Take a dinner plate and fill it with a bit of water. Now blow on it hard and see what kind of ripples it produces. Does it produce relatively large, uneven ripples, or does it make tiny little regular ripples that fan out from reflection points?

And don't you think if the wind was blowing hard enough to produce big ripples in one of the little channels, it might make them in all the channels?

That should give you a clue that maybe your brain is making up stories to match what you think you see.

Ain't science fun?

[edit on 10-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Science IS fun, isn't it?

The water doesn't originate from a lake or a pond. There is no water on the lakes and ponds of Mars (or, at least it is somewhat limited in comparison to Earth). Mars has literally absorbed all of its water. Why? I do not know why, but when you look at the pictures the evidence points to all the water being locked within the terrestrial layers. The craters with watter drainage, active water drainage, being evident from satellite images.

The water ripple analogy you provide is not adequate for this discussion. A plate with shallow water being blown on by a very, very localized wind originating from a singly point does not account for the wind on a large body of water. That is not science, and if it were i doubt any of our landers would have made it to Mars (the few missions that actually have).

Additionally, have you considered factors such as gravity, atmospheric pressure, and vicosity of the liquid? There are quite a few factors that your plate experiment won't account for relative to a much grander scale on Mars.

Excellent input, though. Thanks for pointing out that angle.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

There are some pretty skeptical posts about the image, but when all is said and done, it still looks like water with mud and pebbles to me. I also see the blueberries through the water. I don't agree with the idea above about putting water on a paper plate to study the ripples. A better way to study them would be to go outside and look at the ripples that form on small streams in muddy areas. The ripples vary widely in appearance and texture, just like the ripples in the mars photograph.

I have heard that global warming is not just happening on earth. I read somewhere that the entire solar system has been heating up. Any comments on this? If this is true, we may be witnessing a recent event in the geology of mars. Could it be a natural cycle that planets go through based on long term solar activity? Maybe Mar's will naturally terraform into a vibrant planet and earth will be overcome by a sudden flash freeze? Maybe humans have been jumping between mars and earth for millions of years just to stay alive. I read somewhere that the human internal clock is more accurately in sync with the day/night cycle of Mars. I don't have any references for these ideas, so don't beat me up. I'm just having fun speculating. Any comments on this stuff about the entire solar system heating up? Is there any real science behind these claims?

It's obvious to me that NASA is blatantly keeping secrets, and spoon feeding the populace at a snails pace (a dead snail IMO). From purposely pulverizing a possible crinoid fossil to their messing with the color of photographs. Why all the secrecy? This link will also give you an eye opener as to what those blue berries actually are. Crinoid cover-up

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Oh, and regarding the "ripples" people seem to see in the photo, here's your chance to do a little science. Take a dinner plate and fill it with a bit of water. Now blow on it hard and see what kind of ripples it produces. Does it produce relatively large, uneven ripples, or does it make tiny little regular ripples that fan out from reflection points?

And don't you think if the wind was blowing hard enough to produce big ripples in one of the little channels, it might make them in all the channels?

That should give you a clue that maybe your brain is making up stories to match what you think you see.

Ain't science fun?

[edit on 10-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]

In shallow water- formation of ripples ( fluid dynamics) is also dependant of the configuration ( smoothness or roughness of floor underneath the water)- which increases asymmetry of flow coz od disturbance. It also depend of difference in water level ( change of depth over which water is flowing).


So, put in that dinner plate of yours - some obstacles and pour water, to see ripples created from overriding objects( and filling gaps on plate ...it is lots of fun...

Originally posted by zorgon
Hold on to yer hat JRA... this time I must agree with you...

Shocking! The world must be coming to an end.

ESA image of a Lake on Mars

landoflegends.us...

OH BTW JRA... That is actually pretty close to real color

But its to early to reveal that source

I've seen that image years ago. As for the source, It's from ESA's Mars Express. And yes I do believe it's close to true colour. I believe the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) images in red, green, blue and near-infrared. Here's the ESA's page on the image, which I'm sure you've seen already. www.esa.int...

Originally posted by JackRubyThis link will also give you an eye opener as to what those blue berries actually are.

I too have photos that show fossils on Mars... but the blueberries are Hematite nodules, not crinoid stems... This I know about

Here are the same blueberries on Earth



They come in all sizes



And are definitely formed by water



I have collected crinoids for over 30 years and never saw them in beds that look like blue berries... and despite what Enterprise says, the STEMS are most commonly found... the heads are rare as they are soft and do not become fossils easily

If its fossils you want...



You pick em out I will post our finds later

Originally posted by zorgon

They come in all sizes

They DO come in all sizes...even planet/moon sized.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JackRubyThis link will also give you an eye opener as to what those blue berries actually are.

I too have photos that show fossils on Mars... but the blueberries are Hematite nodules, not crinoid stems... This I know about

I knew I would get the hematite argument I never said that the blueberries looked like crinoid stems. I think they look like blastoids. I'm not a geologist but isn't it entirely possible that hematite be deposited through a natural process of fossilization.

And are definitely formed by water

"definitely formed by water" does not sound very open minded

I have collected crinoids for over 30 years and never saw them in beds that look like blue berries... and despite what Enterprise says, the STEMS are most commonly found... the heads are rare as they are soft and do not become fossils easily

I never got into collecting crinoids. You must really like it if you can stick with it for 30 years. With that said, just because the heads are soft does not mean that they do not become fossils easily. Things become fossils because of their ability to absorb certain minerals in their surroundings, under conditions that we really don't fully understand. The fossil record contains millions of organisms that would be considered delicate or "soft".