PC MOD Ban Pin-Ups On RAF Jets - In Case They Offend Women

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The fighters might have, but if you look now the KC-10s and B-1s and KC-135s have it as well. It was against regulations for them to have anything painted on the nose until the late 1980s. And even the fighters weren't allowed to have anything but pilot and crew chief name painted on the for a long time.

ETA: SAC was the first to allow the return of nose art in 1985.

I guess I should not have left your firth part one to make it clearer. This is what I responded too which indicated nose art died out after WWI which is not true as evidenced by the link furnished for the periods of Korea and Vietnam.

You wrote
It's the same thing that happened after WWII in the USAAC and later USAF.

The truth is it did not die out after WWII with the exception of SAC and even some of those aircraft had some clip art near their doors. Not huge but they were there in the Form of insignias for Arc Lite, Young Tiger, Linebacker, Linebacker II and Rolling Thunder missions, they were normally located near the door at least the ones I flew on had them there. In addition to the best of my knowledge the reason they did not have them larger was not because it was prohibited but the prime reason was camouflage was essential for mission effectiveness.


BTW How did the thread tyopic suddenly become related to morale?? It is about Nose art on aircraft.

[edit on 6/9/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Zaphod58
It's a morale issue.

When a war is just - you don't need morale to be put into soldiers. When a war is for the "right cause" than you don't need morale to be put into soldiers. If they can't take pride in what they are doing for their country - surely what they are doing is at fault?

If we are meant to live in fear from these evil terrorists and they are protecting us, shouldn't a job well done be good enough? I don't see the Police, Fire-service, etcetera, needing to do the same.

It's a very poor excuse for it.

This is a poor statement. Do you think when Americans were fighting for indapendance thier morale never dropped? Do you think you could be away from your family and friends, sitting in harsh environments and all you would need is just the thought of it being "just" to keep you going? Give me a break. You know as well as I do that is not so.

Take work for example. You have a family that needs the money you make. Your bills have to be paid. That is a just cause to continue to work; yet sometimes you just dont feel like it. Sometimes your morale is low and you need something to pick you up.

I never saw anything wrong with the artwork on the planes. If thats what helps inspire the pilots or takes thier mind off of the situations they might find themselves in during wartimes, then by all means they should be able to express themselves.

This is ridiculous, and actually a shame. I think it allows the pilots to personally connect with their plane. I'd think that it'd be a focus of some sort. Kind of like Your girls picture You'd carry around just hoping to make it thru another day. I especially like the older pin-up girls. As long as there's nothing sexually explicate being shown it should be allowed. Why is it so wrong to find the female body beautiful or sexy? Some of the most beautiful art in the world consists of near naked or naked female figures. Do We ban this too?

Peace. K*

Originally posted by shots
BTW How did the thread tyopic suddenly become related to morale?? It is about Nose art on aircraft.

[edit on 6/9/2007 by shots]

Because one of the reasons I gave for the nose art was to boost morale. Which Odium twisted to be related to the war.

Er guys, are you familiar with the Daily Mail?

This is their staple kind of story, and they frequently aren't true.

Other examples of Daily Mail hysteria include;

Christmas being renamed Winterval to avoid offence - It wasn't, it was a shopping festival in Birmingham that was misreported.

The England flag being banned during the World Cup to avoid offence - It wasn't, a guideline was published by oner council advising agains thte flying of *any* flags from taxi's lest an accident is caused and the council sued, more misreporting.

Children being forced to sing 'Baa baa green sheep' so as not to offend black people - they weren't, a teacher composed several extra verses to the rhyme including various colours intended to follow the original first verse and aid in teaching the very young about colour, but the Daily Mail doesn't do accuracy very well.

With their track record I expect that there will have been one incident where something was overpainted for a very specific reason but the Daily Mail sniffed a story and ran with it.

They always have and they always will. When I see the words 'Daily Mail' in connection with a story I know what to expect - namely some sort of infringement of British identity/freedom story, and here it is

Originally posted by waynos


This is their staple kind of story, and they frequently aren't true.

Other examples of Daily Mail hysteria include;

Can you prove the story is wrong? They quoted MP Davies and an RAF commander both who verified it did happen Or I should say it will happen.

Nose art isn't really anything to get upset about.

The overall costs of sending women to war is what is outrageous, but I don't think it's legal to say that anymore.

This plane might not have the nose art that this thread is about, but the pilot named it after his mother, and I think that deserves mention.



Check the guy on the left, he looks real happy to fly on a plane named Gay.





EDIT: Trying to fix bbcode and picture size. :shk:





[edit on 9/6/2007 by anxietydisorder]


Mod edit: resized picture

[edit on 2007/6/9 by Hellmutt]

No shots I can't prove it is untrue, I am just advising caution, based the the DM's track record.

Also I notice the quotes are very non-specific. for instance Davies merely commented along the lines of 'Have the MoD nothing better to do?' which reads to me like a response given to a reporter who has just buttonholed him with the story looking for a quote. He does not acknowledge the truth of the story or even that he himself knows anything about it.

The other quote is from that old tabloid staple, the anonymous 'RAF spokesman'. Normally when a statement comes from the RAF it is via a named commanding officer.

Like I said, treat this with caution, don't rush to believe it just because you read it.

[edit on 9-6-2007 by waynos]

While it might not have been an issue back in the day when the military was sort of an "all-boy's club", it's more of an issue nowadays. Yes, it's offensive to quite a few women. It's *also* offensive to some of our allies from more religious areas.

With more women in the military, stories of rape and harrassment are becoming more common. These images do nothing to reassure the female soldiers and *may* promote the idea (to the less clue-ful male soldiers) that all women, including their fellow soldiers, are simply convenient sexual partners and that their saying "no" is ridiculous.

But...this is a subject that I've followed for years. You may not be aware of a lot of the problems.

Aircraft adornment in general is an issue today. Times have changed, and more's the pity. Untilthe next world war comes along, we'll be seeing less and less of this sort of thing. When the spit hits the fan, I don't think any of the rear area types will fight it too much when pilots and crews do a little scribblin' here and there.

Even so, I can just imagine some of the Protest Art that might pop up on some aircraft. Imagine nose art that looks like a fully clothed man or woman, very proper, holding a sign that says "if you can read this you ARE in trouble!" Consider also the possibility of a warm and happy cartoon character holding a sign that reads, "this aircraft drops bombs."

Does anyone even remotely suspect it might be time for males to lift their brains out of their jocks ?

Originally posted by Dock6


Does anyone even remotely suspect it might be time for males to lift their brains out of their jocks ?

No not at all.

Nose Art consists of much more then just pin ups. Many were simply names or cartoons.

So you're saying the MoD banned cartoons and names, in case they offend women ?

Originally posted by Dock6
So you're saying the MoD banned cartoons and names, in case they offend women ?

That is what the article alleges. Didn't you read it?

From what I gather it covers all nowse art which includes names etc

[edit on 6/10/2007 by shots]

We seem to be having a communications problem, as Paul Newman said to the guy in mirror shades.

Yes dear, I've read this entire thread.

I even read the thread title: ' PC MoD ban Pin-Ups on RAF jets - In Case They Offend Women'.

Even took in the post containing an example of said 'pin ups' -- a female in diaphanous bit of something. Virtually naked female beautifully drawn on side of plane.

Maybe your interpretation of a 'pin up' is:- a 'name' or a 'cartoon'.

But a 'pin up' is usuallly described as a young female of near-perfect form (naked, semi-naked or wearing figure-revealing outfit) who is posing sexily, provocatively and enticingly for no reason other than to be 'looked at' (oogled appreciatively) by males.

I've been in a lot of offices, garage mechanics, etc. which had pin ups on the wall. But I've yet to see a guy oogling a cartoon or 'name' appreciately.

So now I'm curious. Do you oogle 'simple names' and 'cartoons' ? Are they revealingly-clad cartoons ?

When you respond, I guess we'll know where your argument is going.

Originally posted by Dock6

Maybe your interpretation of a 'pin up' is:- a 'name' or a 'cartoon'.

It is very clear you did not read and understand all of the article. This is the paragrpah that I based my comments/answers on

But commanders are erring firmly on the side of caution and "nose art", as it is known, has been consigned to the history books.

Source

As you can see no mention of pin ups, cartoons, names, etc. only the worlds nose art



[edit on 6/10/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by Odium


It's not needed - there's no point to paint such pictures on a plane.

It's not needed? Then I take it that you're against all forms of graffiti also?

Modern nose art does NOT include pin ups. They're usually based on the name given the plane, and they're quite tasteful now. For instance, the first B-1 I ever saw was named "Polar Warrior" and had a polar bear, with a fully covered female warrior holding a lance, with snow and Northern Lights around them. I've seen MANY planes with nose art on them, and not one of them was even close to distasteful to anyone.

Here are some examples (some are foreign planes but are similar to what I've seen here in the US)









They started allowing nose art again, but have been very strict about what is allowed to be put on the planes.

Check the guy on the left, he looks real happy to fly on a plane named Gay

You know being a gay - guy myself I could have taken offence to that comment, butknows your only having a joke so along with you...

Just a damm shame that the MOD has done this, oh lets take away the only free time those air piolits get to themselves with slapping this ban on them. The UK is so going absolutely to the toilet pan with all this PC Crap, is about time someone stood up and said enough is enough, quit with the cotton wool crap and let us live our lifes the way we want to live them... Without having to life in fear incase we offend someone...........