Tell Me How 15 Arabs With Box Cutters....

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Not sure, but some of my posts are not getting 'posted'??

Ultima, you have yet to discuss what you think happened at the pentagon. Do you run to the mail box every day hoping your FOIA papers arrive?

Gee, you are not to observent are you. I just posted a thread about getting 2 CDs from the NTSB about the flight data recorder on flight 77 tha i received in respone to my FOIA.

I am going to post the information as more truth about what haapened on 911.

I do not know what happened at the Pentagon thats why i am doing research. But i have yet to find actual eviedence needed to proof that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


1. So people saw a plane. But was it flight 77 ?

2. Was the debris from Flight 77 ?

3. NIST DNA experts had to come up with new DNA testing for 911. These new test were not ready untill 2002 after the bodies were identified.

4. You might want to do better research, thier were 5 bodies not identified from the Pentagon.

1. Actually a stewardess who regularly flew on flight 77 and knew the crew that was aboard the flight that day was able to identify the plane and wreckage as not only being the right kind of plane, but specifically flight 77.

2. Same as #1

3. Yup, which even further proves it was flight 77.

4. Correct. But 189 WERE identified. that leaving only one victim unidentified due to being too badly damaged.

woo hoo !! I didnt see the thread! Seriously... good for you. Im glad you got the information you asked for!

Originally posted by snoopy
1. Actually a stewardess who regularly flew on flight 77 and knew the crew that was aboard the flight that day was able to identify the plane and wreckage as not only being the right kind of plane, but specifically flight 77.

1. Please show me the site where you got this information from.

2. I am still waiting for the FBI and NTSB report that it was flight 77. They are the main investigating agencies and the only reports that count.

3. How does the DNA identification before the DNA test were ready prove it was flight 77 ?????

[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Flight 77 FDR info from NTSB FOIA

I just received 2 CDs from the NTSB in response to a FOIA i sent. It shows information and the animation.

It also has some information on the other flights.

I am reviewing the information now and will post it soon.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

1. Please show me the site where you got this information from.

2. I am still waiting for the FBI and NTSB report that it was flight 77. They are the main investigating agencies and the only reports that count.

3. How does the DNA identification before the DNA test were ready prove it was flight 77 ?????

[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

1. I don't have any web address right now because it's been a while. But the woman's name is T Carter. And you would like her because she's a big CTer.

2. The FBI is the main investigating agency, the NTSB is just there to assist. And it's an ongoing investigation. How many cases do you see the FBI showing information from an ongoing investigation? The Moussaui trial has a lot of great stuff though.

3. How does DNA testing prove it was flight 77? Because they were able to identify passengers on the plane. And then later on when they developed the new techniques, they were able to identify even more. You seem to have this notion that they couldn't do any testing at all until later.

Plus they found personal belongings, they found the debris from the plane, they have the radar, the black box, the eyewitness testimony, the phone calls form the flight, the employees who boarded and ticketed. It goes on and on.

Originally posted by snoopy
1. I don't have any web address right now because it's been a while. But the woman's name is T Carter. And you would like her because she's a big CTer.

2. The FBI is the main investigating agency, the NTSB is just there to assist. And it's an ongoing investigation. How many cases do you see the FBI showing information from an ongoing investigation? The Moussaui trial has a lot of great stuff though.

3. How does DNA testing prove it was flight 77? Because they were able to identify passengers on the plane. And then later on when they developed the new techniques, they were able to identify even more. You seem to have this notion that they couldn't do any testing at all until later.

Plus they found personal belongings, they found the debris from the plane, they have the radar, the black box, the eyewitness testimony, the phone calls form the flight, the employees who boarded and ticketed. It goes on and on.

1. Let me know when you get the site.

2. What ongoing investigation? Its been 6 years. Thier has been 1 trial and the crime scene reports were not used. Thier are no other trials planned. I can find other FBI and NTSB reports such as flight 800 and other aviantion crime scene reports but their is nothing for 911.

Also the crime scene at the Pentagon. The FBI did not officially take it over as a crime scene for 10 days. Then aftrer stating it would take 30 days to complete they handed it back over the military in 5 days.

3. But for them to say they identified everyone even before the new DNA testing was ready is very suspicious.


[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

if anyone thinks it was difficult to get bombs on a plane prior to 911 ask the passengers that got spread out over lockerbie

in 01 analog cell phones were still more common and had a greater range than digital phones do

if we DO agree that a plane DID hit the pentagon, why assume it was NOT flt77? and if it wasnt flt77 what DID hit the pentagon and where is flt77 and more importantly its passengers?

Originally posted by Damocles
if we DO agree that a plane DID hit the pentagon, why assume it was NOT flt77? and if it wasnt flt77 what DID hit the pentagon and where is flt77 and more importantly its passengers?

But where is the evidence. Why are the reports and evidence being kept from us ?

evidence for which part exactly? that a plane hit the building or that it was flt77?

and even though we've only tried moussaui, it IS still an ongoing criminal investigation. they are still trying to find someone to arrest and put on trial and when they do they must use the evidence they have (whatever that may be) as part of the case.

so, to release it all could taint any potential jury pool and the defense could get them off on a technicality

i mean, can we agree that a plane hit the pentagon?

if so, then if it was NOT flt77, what was it? if it was not flt77 where IS flt77 and where are the people that were aboard it?

we do know SOMETHING hit the pentagon
we do know that flt77 is unaccounted for
we know that there were people on what should have been flt77 that are gone.

now, maybe im just drawing my own conclusions here, which ill admit isnt always a safe thing to do, but big hole in the pentagon+a missing airliner full of people is pretty easy math to me.

why make a plane full of people disappear then use something else to hit the pentagon when you could just use the plane and people you have to crash into the building.

sure, its drawing conclusions but while many say there isnt enough proof flt77 hit the pentagon i just dont see any other viable alternative theories that make ANY sense.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


1. Let me know when you get the site.

2. What ongoing investigation? Its been 6 years. Thier has been 1 trial and the crime scene reports were not used. Thier are no other trials planned. I can find other FBI and NTSB reports such as flight 800 and other aviantion crime scene reports but their is nothing for 911.

Also the crime scene at the Pentagon. The FBI did not officially take it over as a crime scene for 10 days. Then aftrer stating it would take 30 days to complete they handed it back over the military in 5 days.

3. But for them to say they identified everyone even before the new DNA testing was ready is very suspicious.


[edit on 17-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

1. Good luck in your search, it's all over the internet and I am not the one making the claims, you are. Let us know how it goes.

2. So you do this research and you aren't even aware that the 9/11 investigation is still ongoing? Seriously? And now you're claiming there are no other trials planned? Have you been watching the news? They have 2 more coming up. And then there will be others. Once again, Flt800 was not a criminal investigation. What ongoing FBI investigations can you find reports of? Please show us so we can see how out of all of the ongoing FBI investigations 9/11 is missing.

3. THE DNA TESTING WAS READY. What part of this do you not understand? They identified all but a few bodies that were too badly damaged. A year later they developed a new technique and were able to identify even MORE bodies. They were ready from the very beginning. Again, what don't you understand about this?

Originally posted by snoopy
2. Flt800 was not a criminal investigation. What ongoing FBI investigations can you find reports of? Please show us so we can see how out of all of the ongoing FBI investigations 9/11 is missing.

3. THE DNA TESTING WAS READY. What part of this do you not understand? They identified all but a few bodies that were too badly damaged. A year later they developed a new technique and were able to identify even MORE bodies. They were ready from the very beginning. Again, what don't you understand about this?

2. Flight 800 was actually a criminal investigation twice. At the very beginning the FBI believed a bomb was used the bring the plane down. Then later on people started reporting seeing a missile, so another criminal investigation was done.

3. Back in 2001 they did not have the DNA testing for bodies that had been severely burned as stated by the NIST DNA experts. So how did they identify badly burned bodies without the newer testing ?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
2. Flight 800 was actually a criminal investigation twice. At the very beginning the FBI believed a bomb was used the bring the plane down. Then later on people started reporting seeing a missile, so another criminal investigation was done.

3. Back in 2001 they did not have the DNA testing for bodies that had been severely burned as stated by the NIST DNA experts. So how did they identify badly burned bodies without the newer testing ?

And the criminal investigation part was closed.
They Identified the bodies that weren't burned beyond identification at the time. The newer testing was only needed for the extreme cases that they could not identify with the testing methods at the time. So once they developed the new technique they were able to identify even more bodies than previously.

I am not sure what is hard to understand about this point. And there is still one victim left that they did not find DNA for. Maybe they will in the future with improved testing. Does that invalidate the 189 people they identified now?

The 9/11 hijackers were pretty good at getting their targets. It was slick for them to use box cutters and fake bombs to get past security without people noticing. I don't doubt that terrorism was involved in 9/11. However, except their motivation, their tradecraft was very unique. They forged passports, trained in boeing simulators, killed with proficiency, executed commando like technique's on some passengers, and were skilled in avoiding authorties while they were in the planning stage. Somebody taught them to kill, forge passports which is not easy to do, may have been engaged in stealing hence the fake passports. Its not far fetched but suspicious to me, in the 9/11 commission report they recieved boeing simulator training, which surprised me no one noticed that was strange, even the pilot instructors I think it was two of the hijackers in florida reported it to the FBI and the same agents reports were refused by their superiors. And maybe at the pensacola naval air station that two of the hijackers recieved pilot training. It kind of reminds of the Iran Contra Affair, where most of the contras were sent arms but the the US took certain groups to train with special forces in the US and then send them back to be part of the death squads. I don't know what happened on 9/11, but I will say that I don't believe in the intelligence failure excuse because the FBI and CIA were always in contact with each other especially in clandestine operations. When the CIA funded mujahideen, the FBI runs on the same level when it comes to clandestine operations for the reason that the CIA doesn't want its people to be busted when they are selling arms in the US to known terrorists or doing any other illegal activity.

Ok I do not wish to banter with the majority of this thread however the evidence I want to bring forth is an important piece of the awnser as to how the terrorists could have gotten past security with box cutters. In this article dated back a couple of weeks ago it states that 90% of the simulated weapons did make it past the check points in the last trials. Also inportant to bring to light here is that they attempted to place a vote for more funding to tighten up our abilty to protect the major airport security and just before 911;s 6th aniversary, Bush stated that he would veto the bill because it included timelines on ending the war in Iraq. Read for your self this eye opening article.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screeners failed most of the covert tests because of human error, sources told 9NEWS. Alarms went off on the machines, but sources said screeners violated TSA standard operating procedures and did not hand-search suspicious luggage, wand, or pat down the undercover agents.

,

For the full article follow this link;
www.9news.com...

[edit on 19-9-2007 by antar]

Alright everybody this is my theory that I came up with. It is because of a recently reviewed article on cnn here is a link

14 Familes of 9/11 Victims Settle Suit with American Airlines

"From Nkechi Nneji
CNN



NEW YORK (CNN) -- Fourteen families of victims of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks reached settlements with United Airlines and a private airline security company in federal court Monday."

"Among the defendants was Argenbright Security, which was released from its contract by the Department of Transportation in 2002 amid allegations of inferior security standards."



This is a link to Argenbright's previous wikipedia entry, now that edit history is available on Wikipedia.

This was found

The reference is the 9/11 commission report.

Revision as of 19:15, 18 February 2007

Argenbright Security is an Atlanta-based subsidiary of Securicor that has operated security at airports across the United States, including Philadelphia International Airport and Chicago's O'Hare International Airport.
Through a contract with United Airlines, Argenbright operated passenger security checkpoints at Dulles International Airport, where five hijackers passed through before boarding American Airlines Flight 77 on September 11, 2001.[1] United Airlines also contracted with Argenbright to manage its security operations at Newark Liberty International Airport, where the hijackers on United Airlines Flight 93 passed through.[1]
Argenbright managed some security operations at Boston's Logan International Airport for US Airways, Delta Air Lines, Delta Shuttle and America West.[2] However, Argenbright did not manage the specific checkpoints that the hijackers passed through before boarding American Airlines Flight 11. American Airlines contracted its security operations at Logan to Globe Aviation Services. United Airlines contracted with Huntleigh USA to manage its security operations at Logan, including the checkpoint where hijackers on United Airlines Flight 175 passed through.[1] In November 2001, the Massachusetts Port Authority revoked Argenbright's license to operate security at Logan.[2]
Argenbright, founded in 1979 by Frank Argenbright,[3] was sold to the British firm, Securicor, in December 2000 for an initial cash payment of $185 million.[4]
References

^ a b c 9/11 Commission (2004). "Chapter 1", 9/11 Commisssion Report.


So It's obvious why the airlines were being sued, because of this security firm, that is how you get a bomb on a plane.