Nobody doubts that 9-11 was commited by government insiders anymore, right?

Good point, dragonseeker; we should have probably let chirac-led france come in and do an independent investigation... Come on man, you would be ok with letting biased European nations come into our country to investigate your government, know matter how much you hate the president?

Again the political polarization of the last six years is clearly what is driving a large part of the truth movement. You do realize that Clinton/the Clinton administration would have to have been a huge player in complicity for this to have happened, correct?

I'm all for independent investigations, but i'll pass on a german led inquiry.

Originally posted by PartChimp
Good point, dragonseeker; we should have probably let chirac-led france come in and do an independent investigation... Come on man, you would be ok with letting biased European nations come into our country to investigate your government, know matter how much you hate the president?

Again the political polarization of the last six years is clearly what is driving a large part of the truth movement. You do realize that Clinton/the Clinton administration would have to have been a huge player in complicity for this to have happened, correct?

I'm all for independent investigations, but i'll pass on a german led inquiry.

They do hate the bush admin, but they don't hate the american people, and this would be for the people's sake. our govt has become too corrupt to investigate itself, sadly...and, didn't france just get a new president? as far as the clintons, yes I do realize there would have to be some level of complicity..sounds like you think I'm a democrat, I'm not, registered as independent bout 3 years ago. I don't trust either party.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by dragonseeker]

Originally posted by nick7261

Originally posted by dragonseeker

I love a challenge

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

way too much info to post, so there's the link...good luck.

This is a typical CT cop out. Rather than list the *one* piece of evidence that overwhelmingly proves government complicity, you link to a website filled with lots of speculation, misinformation, and some outright lies.

If there is so much overwhelming evidence that the government is responsible for 9/11, it should be easy for any CTer to simply list ONE piece of evidence that proves this, and then tie that evidence to a specific person.

I will make a bold prediction. There will be dozens of posts that follow but there won't be a single post that meets the challenge.

Name the evidence and who specifically the evidence links to the conspiracy.

P.S. For those of you tempted to type anything relating to "Silverstein" and "pull it" let me remind you that Silverstein is not part of the government, and "pull it" isn't exactly the equivalent of a bloody glove.

You are welcome to present some evidence that a bunch of amature pilots with boxcutters were able to reach 3 out of their 4 targets. Maybe if you guys put up some evidence to your claims it would help. But hey, you guys are just listening to what fox news and others like it are telling you. It's not like the media and government would ever lie to us...........

I'm not convinced.

All the evidence against 9/11 happening as the official story goes is spotty at best. Theres nothing I've seen without a shadow of a doubt that proves anything. In fact.. the evidence is spotty and sometimes weak/lame.

So I really do not know who was ultimately responsible. I don't put it past "them", so it coulda been an inside job, but then again it could've been just as it is descrbed. I mean. Bush isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.. and that was early in his Presidency, I can honestly say that in that moment and time, if he wasn't in on it at all, he would've felt like he's in way over his head on how to resolve this new problem.

But a 'secret government' could be responsible, yes, thats always possible.

I dont think its Skull & Bones, IMO. John Kerry is a leftward leaning anti-war type of guy and was in Skull & Bones. One could say he became the Democratic candidate on purpose to make sure Bush, his fellow Skull & Boner, would get his 2nd term. Running to lose basicly. But we know this isnt the case because the election was quite close, something like 46% went to Kerry and 51% went to Bush. So i feel the results are too close for that conspiracy theory to be remotely true in any way.

Thats if we dont think the voting is rigged from the start, which is an entire new can of worms. In that case, the Kerry running-to-lose could make sense.

[edit on 6/3/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole

Originally posted by nick7261

Originally posted by dragonseeker

I love a challenge

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

way too much info to post, so there's the link...good luck.

This is a typical CT cop out. Rather than list the *one* piece of evidence that overwhelmingly proves government complicity, you link to a website filled with lots of speculation, misinformation, and some outright lies.

If there is so much overwhelming evidence that the government is responsible for 9/11, it should be easy for any CTer to simply list ONE piece of evidence that proves this, and then tie that evidence to a specific person.

I will make a bold prediction. There will be dozens of posts that follow but there won't be a single post that meets the challenge.

Name the evidence and who specifically the evidence links to the conspiracy.

P.S. For those of you tempted to type anything relating to "Silverstein" and "pull it" let me remind you that Silverstein is not part of the government, and "pull it" isn't exactly the equivalent of a bloody glove.

You are welcome to present some evidence that a bunch of amature pilots with boxcutters were able to reach 3 out of their 4 targets. Maybe if you guys put up some evidence to your claims it would help. But hey, you guys are just listening to what fox news and others like it are telling you. It's not like the media and government would ever lie to us...........

well, to be fair, not everyone who believes the official story is a fox news-loving bushbot, but you make a good point about amateur pilots hitting their targets. I've taken flying lessons, in a cessna 152 and a 172(skyhawk), hell that wasn't easy, I can't imagine what flying a 747 with their limited time as pilots would be like..that's one of the things that bother me most, frankly.

Originally posted by wingman77
There's so much information available that overwhelmingly proves that people within the government were responsible for the attacks on 9-11. There aren't anymore skeptics left are there?

You bet there are and I am one of them. I cannot, nor will I think it is possible that a select few could have conceived something as tragic as 911.

Now if you suggest JKF was a conspiracy yes it sure was.

[edit on 6/3/2007 by shots]

9-11 was not caused by the government. Enough already. I have worked for the government for years - they can't do anything right. There are assuredly many conspiracies to uncover, but this isn't one of them. As I have stated previously, I personally witnessed the plane hit the pentagon, as did thousands of other people. There were local residents on that plane that really died and were mourned by real relatives. This ranks up there with the phony moon landing.

Originally posted by Teutonic47
9-11 was not caused by the government. Enough already. I have worked for the government for years - they can't do anything right. There are assuredly many conspiracies to uncover, but this isn't one of them. As I have stated previously, I personally witnessed the plane hit the pentagon, as did thousands of other people. There were local residents on that plane that really died and were mourned by real relatives. This ranks up there with the phony moon landing.

I hear ya, I'm not one who believes there were no planes at the pentagon, for me that's the far edge of the conspiracy world..I'm more of the "small group within the govt with some outside assistance" type...in any case, without a new investigation of some kind, this will never be settled..

Originally posted by wingman77
Nobody doubts that 9-11 was commited by government insiders anymore, right?

You are kidding, right?

VERY FEW people think that 9-11 was committed by government insiders. Many think that the government isn't telling everything about that day (like why the BinLadin family living in America were allowed to leave the country on Jets). But very few people think that our government, or government insiders, staged the whole thing.

^ Agreed, I think a better question for that would be "Does anyone still believe in these 9/11 conspiracy theories anymore?"

Yeah, i don't believe the official story for a second....

But for me it's not so much the government who did it but the shadow government.

CFR, Bilderberg, Neocon cabal? A shadow government is merely composed of people within the official government, conducting business in a separate framework. The U.S. government system is a boon to mankind, but it has been twisted. The constitution is what separates us from our ancestors, the serfs. People within our government are chiseling away at our rights as we speak. 911 was but one pretext for this action. I started this thread because I believed it would be obvious to the good people here at ATS that the official story is bogus. I'm aware that most people in this country don't suspect the government of involvement but I wanted to see what the status was here. I can see we are still fragmented and that saddens me. Nobody should have to wonder what really happened, not about an event that has been used to fundamentally change the nature of this country. Every piece of evidence, even circumstantial should be investigated.

Silverstein
WTC 7
Thermite residue
Norad Stand down
Insider trading
John O'Neil
Bomb sniffing dogs being pulled from service
Bush - Bin Laden ties
CIA - ISI - Al Qaeda ties
Flight Data Recorders
Pentagon Tapes
Mossad Activity
Suppression of Emergency Worker's tapes
...

Why don't we look into all of these issues throughly so we can know the truth?

Originally posted by wingman77
CFR, Bilderberg, Neocon cabal? A shadow government is merely composed of people within the official government, conducting business in a separate framework. The U.S. government system is a boon to mankind, but it has been twisted. The constitution is what separates us from our ancestors, the serfs. People within our government are chiseling away at our rights as we speak. 911 was but one pretext for this action. I started this thread because I believed it would be obvious to the good people here at ATS that the official story is bogus. I'm aware that most people in this country don't suspect the government of involvement but I wanted to see what the status was here. I can see we are still fragmented and that saddens me. Nobody should have to wonder what really happened, not about an event that has been used to fundamentally change the nature of this country. Every piece of evidence, even circumstantial should be investigated.

Silverstein
WTC 7
Thermite residue
Norad Stand down
Insider trading
John O'Neil
Bomb sniffing dogs being pulled from service
Bush - Bin Laden ties
CIA - ISI - Al Qaeda ties
Flight Data Recorders
Pentagon Tapes
Mossad Activity
Suppression of Emergency Worker's tapes
...

Why don't we look into all of these issues throughly so we can know the truth?

Because no one wants to believe our own government would do such a thing..it's not about evidence, it's about belief. The vast majority of those who believe the official story will continue to do so, regardless of evidence presented. Barring a new investigation that uncovers absolutely irrefutable proof and/or a confession, this won't change..

Edit: Although I'm with you on 9/11 being an inside job, I don't believe you didn't think anyone would have an opposing view. I'm glad you started the thread, but be honest about why you started it.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by dragonseeker]

Enough already....

The government is not your friend and doesn't care about you...

There should not be any reasons left stemming upward to make a person buy what the government is selling.

The thread was really a status check. I wanted dip into the minds of ATS members. I suppose the title of the thread was a bit misleading, but it provided the information I was looking for.

Originally posted by nick7261
How can you make any conclusion about the composition of the "meteorite" from watching the news video? Can you really say that the steel and concrete fused together to make a new material from watching the video?

I'm going off other sources I guess. I didn't watch the video posted. I have heard many different times that it is a fusion of steel and concrete.

Now, I've also heard reporters describe it comming from temperatures the same as the inner earth. It could be that reporters aren't really that smart and say these off the wall things (hot as the inner earth, fused together). That's why it needs to be tested. To see if it is actually a fusion or just molten materials that hardened together.

Again, I'm not sure what specifically is inexplicable about this "meteorite."

Really? You don't find anything wierd about it? Especially if it IS a fusion of two materials to make a new element?

Originally posted by PartChimp
Again the political polarization of the last six years is clearly what is driving a large part of the truth movement. You do realize that Clinton/the Clinton administration would have to have been a huge player in complicity for this to have happened, correct?

Why did Clinton let Tim Osman...err Osama Bin Laden go? Because they have blood on thier hands also.

Thing about lies is, they can be big or small. I'm not necessarily persuaded by the evidence that points to it being "staged". But there are elements in the reaction that seem to me to be very staged indeed. For example, many people think that the false-sounding phonecall "transcripts" are evidence that the attack was an inside job. I don't think they are, I think that if they are indeed false, that is evidence that someone made up false transcripts - nothing more.

Point being, if I wanted to galvanise public opinion I would make the story personal. The difficulty people have in handling huge incidents like that on 9/11 is that it's almost too enormous to comprehend. The same goes for mass killings like those in Cambodia or communist Russia. The human brain is almost incapable of taking in such monumentally huge catastrophes. If I can play you the transcript of just one person in all that tragedy, just one voice expressing the personal sense of dread and horror of what is happening - then I make it count perhaps more than news pictures, however awesome, however terrifying - are able to do.

Faking that personal touch would not automatically mean the incident was my fault, though...

AB

Originally posted by dragonseeker
well, to be fair, not everyone who believes the official story is a fox news-loving bushbot, but you make a good point about amateur pilots hitting their targets. I've taken flying lessons, in a cessna 152 and a 172(skyhawk), hell that wasn't easy, I can't imagine what flying a 747 with their limited time as pilots would be like..that's one of the things that bother me most, frankly.

Not even that. According to the "confession" tape by OBL himself, they didn't even know the operation until they boarded the planes. Now, it becomes even harder to imagine that they would be able to hit their targets at all since they didn't even know them until that morning. Those are some expert pilots right there.

Originally posted by shots
You bet there are and I am one of them. I cannot, nor will I think it is possible that a select few could have conceived something as tragic as 911.

But yet you believe a few arabs from across the world could? Do those select few involve the arabs?