Insanely Incredible Issues as Proof of a 9/11 Conspiracy

That's really the bottom line IIB. There needs to be a thorough and objective investigation-I don't know if this is possible because of the polarization over the topic and lack of coverage on media most Americans use to get informed.

Anyone who might call for another investigation would have to provide rationale for it and then the insults would start flying.

Even if you simply stated the first investigation was lacking and offering no more - people have been told what to think and by god it's over, the terrists done it, we are at war, shut your trap and move on.

[edit on 27-5-2007 by Pilot]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The "big story" is a concept I look for in everything I do these days. It's the thing that the hype overlooks. The "big story" is most often found right on the surface. It's the one detail that is right there beyond the hype of either side. For example, the big story wouldn't be the enormous stories behind each actual side of something, the big story would be that there are only 2 sides to a highly diverse issue. In that reality, the 2 sides binary would be the problem that needs to be addressed. Case Point: WTC7


I agree, the 'big story' is the key.
The who and how are small pieces, I'm not trivialising the tragedy
and loss of lives, it's just the question... the real question is why?

Where will this quest we've undertaken lead us too?

Originally posted by Pilot
Great post !

I've been frustrated by the debates over minutae re 9/11 for a long time now-it happens not just between a debunker and a CT'er but between two CT'ers and it's just insane. Of course this is the result of carefully placed disinfo.

Thanks.

Exactly. Take the WTC Micronukes / "melted cars" debates for example.

I blame a lot of it on Americans being indoctrinated to be irrational and overdramatic. Said results in a violent society, and the numbers show I may be onto something.

[edit on 27-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

There's a ton of examples of intentional disinfo that I missed. One that comes to mind was:

Case Point: WTC

The video clip was released years ago, without explosive audio. Then, roughly 5 years later, 9MSN releases a documentary that includes this new explosive audio:
Sounds Like Explosive Devices To Me + Very Clear Squib! (as can be verified from their site).
So we're forced into this position of either the new audio is real, which reinvigorates the WTC Demolition arguments, or we're to assume that they intentionally made it sound like explosives (disinfo) to divert everyone back into the highly debatable WTC CD Theory.
Either it's back to incredible, or disinfo perpetrated by the establishment Media.

[edit on 27-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Yes IIB your on the right track in my mind. It's almost a philosophical disscusion because of the lack of hard evidence to proove anything either way. I enjoy reading your posts, very thorough and with plenty of links. For someone like me it's hard to do the leg work I appreciate your dedication. Someone earlier posted you should get out and live a little, they may be right. Do what you feel is the right thing, since I opened my eyes I will continue to seek information and do the right thing for rest of my life.

Infinityoreilly, out

Originally posted by earth2
I have a grandfather that I tried to talk to about 9/11.
OMG not a good idea. That man loves Bush and what bush says is the law.
And man did he get mad at me.

There are 100million other people in america just like him. Tell me how to get through to him and make him see the truth and you will convince the world.

He doesnt believe anything you tell him or show him no matter how proof positive. He only believes Bush the "christian".

thats exactly how they know it would work
the world and its members are born sheepal
thats were wars come from
I have no beef against the head of a country, nor does he with me
its all B S
so why should I go kill other people?
the fakeout is just another example of mindless people (no offense to grandpa, God Bless him) who really have only sheepal brains

there are billions of them world wide and government, military and the NWO have them all dying for BS

they believe not in themselves they believe in a flag, they believe in a piece of dirt, and a madman leading them and everyone else down a road full of grief that is devoid of Logic or Reason as Al Gore says in his new book....and its true

have grandpa watch my thread in APT on al gore and charlie rose and his new book
cheers

[edit on 27-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Also, could someone please take a look at the video with Guliannis voice in the OP. In the last three seconds a raging fire erupts before it collapses. Is this normal to create fire that extreme that fast without another source?

I think you're refering to the poof of fire that propagates outward during the initial collapse. If so it's no big deal.

Originally posted by Pilot
That's really the bottom line IIB. There needs to be a thorough and objective investigation-I don't know if this is possible because of the polarization over the topic and lack of coverage on media most Americans use to get informed.

Exactly. Therefore the issue to attempt to solve is the polarization. This overall concept might be one way to help try to get people to reach a common ground, if refined and then combined with all of those other issues which are "actionable consensus" in themselves.

Even if you simply stated the first investigation was lacking and offering no more - people have been told what to think and by god it's over, the terrists done it, we are at war, shut your trap and move on.

Top down AND bottom up approach is required. This goes for a majority of the issues that plague society / humanity. An all out "War on Ignorance".


[edit on 27-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

2 more issues I remembered / was reminded of:


FBI doesn't want Osama for 9/11:

USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA, AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE. IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
www.fbi.gov...

It's been over 5 years and they still won't add him to the list. Journalists have reportidly contected them about the matter and the FBI allegidly said they didn'yt have enough evidence. Either way, what kind of stunt is that supposed to be?
This is a case where either we're to assume that they don't have enough evidence meaning it doens't exist, or they're just toying with us and fostering more speculation. This is intolerable in my view, and adds to the list.


No Proof of the planes that are speculated the most about:

It's claimed they found 80% of FLight 93, or whatever, and same story goes for Flight 77. But they wont show us the proof. So what we have are these huge debates and so on, fueled by the Official. On one side the CTers argue that's the big story and demonstrates that no planes hit those marks, the Skeptics argue that they dont need to release the proof as there is no conspiracy.

Both views are conjecture, and focusing on said views takes away from everyone agreeing to work together to get the proof, better investigation, etc.

I must say that the LC boys and the rest are right for pushing to get the evidence released, but using the lack of evidence as 'proof' that the planes don't exist only further fuels the debate and polarization.




Feel free to add anything I missed. I'm not as well rehersed on these particular issues so I don't have every detail memorized. We make each other wiser.

[edit on 27-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

I agree with everything you've said, but I'm sorry, all you did was take the research done by others and put your own spin on it and made it look as if you came up with all this on your own.

All this has been common knowledge for a long time now.

I have no respect for anyone who takes the work of others and tries to take credit for it. Stop acting as if you've discovered all this evidence because you obviously didn't.

You just won the Captain Obvious Award

It's obvious that those who start these threads aren't professional journalists, so I'd cut IIB slack there. It's enough to be a good, thorough enough advocate of whatever position you're taking here...

To paraphrase what I said on another 9/11 thread yesterday, those who deny the RELIGIOUS basis of the Bush/neocon actions are on the wrong side of history... Wouldn't it be indescribably wonderful if we could end our gargatuan collective emperor-is-buck-naked psychosis by learning HOW our illustrious President believes he was appointed by "God" to invade Iraq (of which the same sociopathic zeal applies to his creating or allowing 9/11)?

But I'm probably stirring up something else or should post on the "religious conspiracy" board or whatever... Carry on.

What I encourage us to look closely at--Professor David Ray Griffin's book Debunking 9/11 Debunking, 911conspiracysmasher.blogspot.com...
and Professor Steven Jones who apparently has found microscopic traces of sulphur in steel remains of WTCs that contribute SIGNIFICANTLY to his hyothesis that Thermate explosive was used to bring the towers down in a controlled demolition

Originally posted by earth2
I have a grandfather that I tried to talk to about 9/11.
OMG not a good idea. That man loves Bush and what bush says is the law.
And man did he get mad at me.

There are 100million other people in america just like him. Tell me how to get through to him and make him see the truth and you will convince the world.

He doesnt believe anything you tell him or show him no matter how proof positive. He only believes Bush the "christian".

Show him pictures of bush at the bohemian Grove worshipping a false God, that is pure Deciet to the christian fundamentals.
Should be proof enough for any christian, just ask them what other gods they worship? as christians?
Alex jones has a great video about the grove throw it on for Gramps and see what his one way thinking will lead him onto.

nightmare_david wrote:

I agree with everything you've said, but I'm sorry, all you did was take the research done by others and put your own spin on it and made it look as if you came up with all this on your own.

Where does IIB claim that he is the author of the research in this thread?

I highly doubt IIB is trying to convince us that he is the author behind many of the popular 9/11 conspiracy theories.

If you would take the time to read the whole thread, IIB is trying to get people to see the "big picture" behind 9/11.

Ignorance, I just watched this little jewel. This is right along the same lines of the research you have done.

Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9/11 Cover-Up

This is a 9/11 doc for the advanced class. It starts off with the defeat of the official story as point of departure, then examines ... all » specific anomalies and advances a theory to explain their presence. Much of this material is not discussed in other films. The film supports a particular conclusion which you are invited to discuss at annarbor911truth dot com.

The first part talks about insider trading which is rather dry since there is no video footage to go with it, but stay with it--by the end you will amazed!

Originally posted by nightmare_david
I agree with everything you've said, but I'm sorry, all you did was take the research done by others and put your own spin on it and made it look as if you came up with all this on your own.

Um, wow! At what point did I say "look, I personally found every single issue and anomolie and I'm the shiznit-poncherelie"??

Actually, if you want to get technical, the interpretation of the data I did come up with on my own, and I did so about a year ago when I first REALLY started trying to figure things out. Every aspect turned into a total mindf(#& so to speak. Whle you may not realize it, I've been a blogger for well over a year, and anyone familiar with my passt works knows I take an issue and break down every aspect into a coherent perspective... except 9/11 (most particularly "LC" type issues). I found that everywhere you look t's impossible to come to a rock solid 100% conclussion that isn't based on subjective belief. Even Flight 93 is riddled with ambiguity and an irrational degree of being incredible, whereas I expected it would be a snap to break it down in a nice smooth fashion. It's just too bad that when you look at ALL of the evidence the mountain of absurdity swells up like the Himalayas

Surely others have pondered that view, as evidenced by that recent film out of Ann Arbor (my favorite city in Mich. btw). In fact I HOPE others have pondered an out of the ox perspective, instead of being told what to think and then parroting it.

If you want to get really technical, however, the first link was my analysis, the first video was my find out of a special news collection that I helped extract from the archves.org and then made sure people (including here) knew about the torrents so toehrs could et the raw 1GB files. Pentagon doctored image thread: my analysis that I've seen nowhere else to this day, I didn't find that cameras image originally but I did edit it like that, Atta imag eanalysis: nobody pointed that out to me (again I hope others have made the observartion) [my album too] . etc

All that really matters is the interpretation.

Stop being a hater. It's taken over a year to be able to break it down that logically, and you guys heard this before even my blog readers (who still haven't).

I have no respect for anyone who takes the work of others and tries to take credit for it.

Show me a place where someone has offered the same exact interpretation. Please. I truly hope I'm not the first one to look at it on the surface, instead of drool over the subjective hype and irrational debate on impossible issues.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by zoomein]

sorry bout the dead post above. dont dig how to use the quote thingies etc yet

anyway in reponse to your latest reply :

OK, I am sure you are familiar with Professor Jone's ongoing analysis of his hypothesis that thermate was used to slice through the massive stell supports of the WTCs and that recently his experiments have indeed proven that thermate was used? How is this experimental process being 'subjective'?

I used to lean more towards that, but then I seen the "thermite pouring out of the side of the south tower" debunked by a video of the solid fuel oxygen generators... that Jones still uses as evidence... and I'm not so sure.

I did point out the thermal molten metal pools and so on.

I didn't say it wasn't the case, but it actually being proven that bombs/thermite/etc was used isn't so much.

And even if that's how it really was, too many people out there simply won't believe it. This view is heavily geared towards adding a whole new level of impossible arguments to the 911 issue that might actually help get the 'Skeptics' out there convinced enough to help push for this new investigation.

The center stage is mostly geared towards convincing people there was a conspiracy based on the bombs/etc views, and when that don't work those people are lost. We don't have much time...

Ok... before anyone starts throwing anything, let me say first off that I'm an open minded person, who believes that things are NOT as they seem. Simple way of putting it, but I just want to get that out of the way and hurry into what I really want to say here....

AS an open minded person, who Also does not just believe any little thing that someone tries to feed me.... But who wants to think for herself, learn, discover, and make a difference, let me ask the following questions, please.

#1 HOW do you do this 'research' of yours? You obviously spent quite a long time on some impressive posts, there. WHERE did you gather this information? WHERE is the HARD EVIDENCE to indicate that this was an inside governemt job?

I guess you can think of me as the "Scully" of the board. I am willing to believe, but not in a lie, and not in the opposite of what can be proven.

#2 WHY would the government concoct such an elaborate plan? I can see why they'd hide the truth about UFOs and such, but why go to such lengths to MURDER all those thousands of people? For an excuse to start a war?

I believe in the good that this board can do. I would like to see it live to fill its full potential. There must be something each of us can do, besides just sitting at our computers, throwing theories at each other all day and night. What can we do...actually DO...to find the truth...and to PROOVE it. There has to be something to support your theories, sir.