Stop trains or natives will: chiefs

Question? Why do you think this will turn into something big? They only make up 2 percent of the population and certainly all two percent do not live in the Ontario area.

I also disagree and do not think it is good to compare ruby ridge to this. At Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver, his family turned that into a full blown siege which would make it hardly comparable to a protest/demonstration.

Originally posted by shots
Question? Why do you think this will turn into something big? They only make up 2 percent of the population and certainly all two percent do not live in the Ontario area.

I believe it is now closer to 4%, mainly due to the fact that First Nations people are the fasttest growing demographic in the country.

Since 1985, over 100,000 Indian people have acquired Indian Status as a direct result of Bill C-31. There can no question that the Bill has been effective: in fact, no piece of legislation has had a greater impact on the masses of Indian and Metis people in the last ten years than has Bill C-31.

-snip-

Within the next twenty years, the new Status rules will result in the disqualification of hundred's of thousands of descendants of today's Status Indians. They will start reducing the Status Indian population, certainly off-reserve, but quite likely on reserve as well. And they will lead to a new explosion of the Non-Status Indian population, fed this time by both male and female unions with Non-Indian partners.
LINK

The problem is that those who once were considered non-status indians have to register in order to become status indians.

Here are some of the facts...

Status Indians living on reserves represent about 60 percent of the Status Indian population. There are 432,500 on-reserve Status Indians and 284,800 who reside off-reserve.3 In total, there are 612 First Nations communities, comprising 52 nations or cultural groups and more than 50 languages. About 61 percent of First Nations communities have fewer than 500 residents - only six percent have more than 2,000. Overall, 34.7 percent of on-reserve Status Indians live in urban areas, while 44.6 percent live in rural areas; 16.9 percent, in special-access areas; and 3.8 percent, in remote zones.

LINK

The federal government continues to maintain the Indian Register. Those who were recorded in the Indian Register when the amendments came into force continue to be recorded there.

LINK

The Indian Act basically does two things affecting all Indian people in Canada:

It says how Reserves and Bands can operate:

The Act sets out rules for governing Indian reserves, defines how Bands can be created and spells out the powers of "Band Councils". Bands do not have to have reserve lands to operate under the Act.

It defines who is and who is not recognized as an "Indian":

Before Bill C-31 was passed in 1985, the Act generally defined status Indians in two ways: First, an Indian was any person who was a member of a "Band" recognized for the purposes of the Act (whether or not the Band had reservelands).

Second, the Act defined a number of types of Indian people who were denied recognition as "registered" or "status" Indians, and who were therefore denied membership in Bands.

LINK

As you can imagine, there has been and continues to be a confusing mess when actual numbers are called for. No-one really knows the true facts because many have never bothered to register and yet have familial ties.

Whatever those numbers are, they still represent a large portion of our population. One million out of 30 is still a formidable group.

Originally posted by shots
I also disagree and do not think it is good to compare ruby ridge to this.

I agree with you... the comparison doesn't stand up. Maybe Wounded Knee, but I sure hope not.

Originally posted by masqua

I believe it is now closer to 4%, mainly due to the fact that First Nations people are the fasttest growing demographic in the country.

You very well could be right. I would however not lock those figures in as hard facts because they came from first nation sources. Aboriginals have for years exaggerated their numbers at least here in the US that has been the case. The figures I used came from the CIA fact book and I assume they got some of their data from official Canada sources. Not that the CIA figures are absolute either, all I am saying is I would trust their figures first based on real life experience with aboriginals and how they exaggerated figures about the mining industry.

Originally posted by shots

You very well could be right. I would however not lock those figures in as hard facts because they came from first nation sources.

Um... have another look at the link, shots. I think you may be wrong as to where these figures originated from.

Status Indians living on reserves represent about 60 percent of the Status Indian population. There are 432,500 on-reserve Status Indians and 284,800 who reside off-reserve.3 In total, there are 612 First Nations communities, comprising 52 nations or cultural groups and more than 50 languages. About 61 percent of First Nations communities have fewer than 500 residents - only six percent have more than 2,000. Overall, 34.7 percent of on-reserve Status Indians live in urban areas, while 44.6 percent live in rural areas; 16.9 percent, in special-access areas; and 3.8 percent, in remote zones.

LINK

I would hardly call the Treasury Board of Canada a 'First Nation source'.

Anyways, we're starting to get off-topic on this. By this time tomorrow, we should have a fairly good idea of the way the Day of Protest has developed.

I live very close to a couple of large reservations, so I might have some stories to relate personally.

Originally posted by masqua


Um... have another look at the link, shots. I think you may be wrong as to where these figures originated from.

You are right I used your link that went to Congress of Aboriginal Peoples Sorry I guess I should have read them all but did not really have the time. looking forward to any and all devleopments and hope it does not turn into what you fear.

[edit on 6/28/2007 by shots]

The military needs to step in and stop this nonsense now. Terrorist threats should not stand unpunished. The livelyhood of millions could be effected in a negative way if the military isn't allowed to be the military. The first terrorist to pull out a weapon of any kind should be dispatched with extreme predudice. Either you are with Canada or you are against. The line has been drawn............

Same here.

In my area, there are many different routes by which locals can bypass 'information pickets' or even outright blockades, but the reality of Northern Ontario is few roads which truly can disrupt travel.

You only need to power up Google Earth to see how easily east-west traffic can be stopped.

Another main concern is Canada/US bridges, especially in Eastern Ontario and Quebec where the remnants of the Oka crisis still smoulder.

I spent a few years living in the Northwest Territories as well, and the MacKenzie Highway is the only access to the capital Yellowknife.

Canada is just that spread out... a country a smidge larger than the US with a population 10 times smaller. If the Day of Protest became a Year of Violence instead...

I don't even want to speculate on that.

Originally posted by masqua
If the Day of Protest became a Year of Violence instead...

I don't even want to speculate on that.

You don't have to worry if the military is allowed to do its job and protect the freedoms of ALL Canadians. This small group of terrorist will not get away with this.........

Please don't bother attempting to provoke anything here.

I won't retaliate.



edit to add...

Sending in our troops, already stretched in Afghanistan, will only send the wrong message. I'd rather the local, provincial and band police handle this situation where everybody has guns in their homes or on their hips.

I hope the only firearms I see are holstered on police hips the entire day.

[edit on 28/6/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua

I hope the only firearms I see are holstered on police hips the entire day.

[edit on 28/6/07 by masqua]

I am not provoking anything but patriot spirits. And an unused weapon is a useless weapon. We must take a stand against terrorism. I stand with Canada to fight the good fight. I am sorry if this doesn't sit well with you.

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
The military needs to step in and stop this nonsense now. Terrorist threats should not stand unpunished. The livelyhood of millions could be effected in a negative way if the military isn't allowed to be the military. The first terrorist to pull out a weapon of any kind should be dispatched with extreme predudice. Either you are with Canada or you are against. The line has been drawn............

Wow you really are out for blood aren't you? No matter what thread you post it in.Got something against Native Americans?

No, it doesn't sit well. Oka is too clear in my memory, as is Ipperwash.

I refuse to relegate the First Nations to the status of terrorists and bring out the tanks... thanks anyway. Not that it might not come to that... it is what I'm worried about.

Originally posted by AccessDenied

Got something against Native Americans?

No, terrorist. And I have said it in all my post. Terrorist is the issue. I am not proterrorist. I am anti-terrorist. If the only way to stop them from harming commerce is to invoke military action then so be it. I am sorry if my opinion offends you Access and maq. I will be watching the news throughout the whole ordeal and pray for the lives of all.

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering

You don't have to worry if the military is allowed to do its job and protect the freedoms of ALL Canadians. This small group of terrorist will not get away with this.........

Couple of points here...if we are going to get all fired up on the subject, why not side with the natives in getting the govenment to finally step up to the plate and settle up like the honourable folk they claim to be.

Secondly, my sister in law is coming in (GTA-east) from London by rail...then we're driving her back and touring around St. Jacobs, etc...wonder how all that will pan out.

But...it's not terrorism to stick up for your rights. These disruptions are planned for Indian land, right? If so, they have a moral right to exercise control over their traditional lands in order to draw us white folk into the debate. Heck..the UN cites us on our failings with our aborginal people. We, as Canadians, ought to be better than that. It's shameful!

And so it begins...

DESERONTO — Mohawk protesters, who said they had guns and wouldn't back down, began preparations for blockades of the main CN line and Highway 401 near this eastern Ontario town late Thursday, despite widespread calls that an aboriginal day of action be peaceful.

Men, women and children in army-style fatigues, their hair braided back or shaved in traditional Mohawk style, began arriving at a makeshift camp outside the town west of Kingston, Ont. just after 5 p.m.

There were reports that dozens of provincial police cruisers had amassed in the nearby city of Napanee.

LINK

The confrontational side of this 'peaceful' protest is already showing signs of potential violence.

Exactly what I was worried about in Eastern Ontario.

This is a nation-wide protest, BTW...

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
. We must take a stand against terrorism. I

Are there some invisible posits in here? WE started out talking about a potential protest and now all of a sudden they are being called terrorist??? What did I miss here?

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
. We must take a stand against terrorism. I

Are there some invisible posits in here? WE started out talking about a potential protest and now all of a sudden they are being called terrorist??? What did I miss here?

Guess it goes to show you how things get ramped-up in a hurry. Good thing Harris isn't at the helm any more...hope we've evolved since his "get those f*@king indians outta the park" remarks.

Chief Phil Fontaine says the AFN ""does not want to cause a major disruption in the lives of Canadians, we don't want to impede the Canadian economy, but we want Canadians to pay attention to our issues"

www.cbc.ca...

Here's hopin'

At this point, I think it wise to post the content of a statement posted yesterday by Phil Fontaine;

June 27, 2007


National Chief Statement on potential illegal protests on June 29th

I am aware of public statements in recent days about intentions to disrupt traffic during the National day of Action in support of First Nations on June 29th. While these comments have been widely reported they are isolated comments and do not reflect the position of the Assembly of First Nations, or the many First Nations across the country, who have organized peaceful and positive events that are inclusive of all Canadians.

The real story here is not about conflict. It is about the many events that are taking place across the country which, combined, make for one of the largest rallies ever held in Canada. The real story here is that we have an unprecedented critical mass of support for justice and fairness for First Nations. We have already received pledges of participation from various organizations, corporations, unions, church groups, and ordinary Canadians.

We respectfully urge Canadians not to criminalize First Nations people with respect to the actions they plan to take on June 29th and beyond. Our people do have a right to protest, as do all Canadians. The Assembly of First Nations has never resorted to illegal activities, or anything beyond the rule of law, to advance the causes of FN people.

We understand the frustration that exists among too many of our people. Our objective in organizing the National Day of Action is to provide a positive channel for that energy. We invite all Canadians to stand with us in support of a better life for First Nations and a stronger country for all Canadians.

In recent weeks, the AFN has met with various police forces, as well as CN and CP Rail, because of our mutual interest in ensuring public safety and security during the various events that will make up the National Day of Action.

Of course, the best way to prevent problems of a disruptive nature is for First Nations and Canada to show that we are working together for a better future, and to give our people hope. Since the National Day of Action was passed by resolution by the Chiefs in Assembly last December, the intent has always been to have a peaceful day of education and awareness in order to create a common rallying point for all Canadians to show their support and solidarity for First Nations people.

Phil Fontaine
National Chief

www.afn.ca...

That he holds back the deep, age-old simmering anger is my deepest hope.

here's something ne should keep in mind,
whether they or some friends or family will be present at the
'confrontation' places.

under International Terrorism Law
are Terrorist activities defined as:
"The use of violence against persons, things, or public services
that spread alarm or fear in the population and any part thereof
in order to threaten National Security
or pressure authorities to take certain actions"

a shutting down of railheads would constitute violence against
public services...if the military is transporting even 1 box of ammo
to some frontier outpost on the stopped train...
then national security has been attacked by saboteurs/terrorists !!!

i would sure be careful in any endeavors...


~peace~