What Hijackers? Show me please.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by GwionX
This is Abdul Aziz Alomari at an ATM machine with Mohammed ATTA on 9/10/2001 in Portland Maine:

I love how Atta is conveniently framed in there too.

What so suspicious about that pic? I see two terrorists looking at the same ATM machine. I would be suspicious if the other terrorist was looking at the camera instead of getting his money.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by talisman
Okay now what of the Arab names not on the Autopsy report? Anyone care to take a stab at it?

Did you even read my response? The hijackers' families did not volunteer to provide any DNA to identify the remains that are designated as unknown.

They do not need dna samples to extract the origin of ethnicity, please correct me if I'm wrong.

via

The CNN report says that there were 92 people aboard, but if you count the names listed there are 87 - and no Arabic names. On the surface, this seems reasonable. One can speculate that CNN has published the names of all 87 innocent victims, and deleted the names of the 5 hijackers for sensitivity reasons.

If so, why is said that American Airlines released a "partial list" ?

For the moment, lets give CNN the benefit of the doubt and assume this to be a complete list (in contradiction to what they wrote) of the 87 innocents alleged to be on board - a list sourced from AA, whether directly, or indirectly via a law enforcement agency. A reading of the names suggests that the CNN list may actually represent only 86 people - one name duplicated with different spelling.

Robin Caplin and Robin Kaplan are listed as two different people. There is a brief bio for Kaplan, but nothing for Caplin, except the home town.

Perhaps this is just an enormous co-incidence and two people with such names actually were on the flight ? Lets suspend judgment for the moment, while we investigate further.

I then checked the passenger list provided by USA Today.

USA today

Again, it is described as a partial list. It contains 86 names. - one short of a complete list. Robin Caplin is missing. However, two other names from the CNN list - Jude Larson and Natalie Larson - are also missing, and the list contains two names which are not on the CNN list.

Kelly Booms and Pendyala Vamsikrishna.

Lets think through the possibilities.
1) Two of the names from the collective passenger lists are fictitious.
2) Neither list is complete, and the complete list of innocents only emerges from a collective viewing of the lists - as strongly implied by the term "partial list" used in relation to both lists. If so, then we have 89 innocents. If this is the case, there can't be 5 hijackers for a total of 92 people. And yet nobody seems to dispute these two figures.


We find a list of AA 11 victims published on Sept 13 2001, which, judging by the introduction, may have come from exactly same the source as that used by USAT today. It begins thus.

"By The Associated Press. Partial list of those killed in Tuesday's terrorist attacks, according to family members, friends, co-workers and law enforcement. "

Compare it with the introduction to the USAT list.

"Partial lists of passengers and crew killed in Tuesday's terrorist attacks, according to family members, friends, co-workers and local law enforcement."

However, this list is quite different to that published by USAT - or CNN . While not giving any summation, it contains the names of 89 alleged innocents and introduces two new names - Robert Jalbert and James Roux. Vamsikrishna and Booms are the two names not included from the collective CNN and USAT lists. Since it publishes 89 names as a "partial list " this implies a minimum of 90 innocents aboard the plane.
From the three combined lists, we now have 91 alleged innocents and 5 hijackers for an apparently undisputed summation of 92. The Boston Daily list ,in isolation, implies a minimum of 95 aboard, while the collective lists imply 96 - if one is to believe in 5 hijackers. Alternatively, there must be four fictitious innocents.

The Boston Daily list also contains "Heath Smith", which would appear to be a substitute for "Heather Smith" named on the previous two lists.

A year later, the Boston Daily published a very different list, seemingly without acknowledging any previous error.

It contains only 87 names. Jalbert ,Roux,Caplin and the two Larsons have been dropped for Booms,Vamsikrishna and another new name - Waleed Iskander - who is not alleged to be one of the terrorists. Heath Smith has become Heather Lee Smith. A person named on every other list as Antonio Montoya has become Antonio Jesus Montoya Valdes. Peter Hashem has been replaced by Peter el-Hachem.From the bio, it appears to be a different name for the same person While the odd spelling discrepancy or missing hyphen is quite plausible, this much of a name change is stretching the credibility a little. I can believe that "Green" could become "Greene" or "Catherine" become "Katherine", but "Hashem" becoming "el- Hachem" - from an official passenger list - is more difficult to accept.

This is most unsatisfactory. The combined lists now name 92 innocents, so if one is to believe in 92 aboard, 5 of which were hijackers, we now have 5 fictitious innocents.
We have three major mainstream media outlets, publishing 4 lists which all contradict each other about who was on board, when this information should have ultimately come from one official,well organized source. We have lists claiming to be "partial lists" publishing more names than should be in a complete list.

I checked another list - from the Guardian dated sept 13 ,2001
Link

This also claims 92 people aboard. It published only 75 names, saying

"This is a preliminary, partial list of passengers aboard the flight whose next of kin have been notified. Some families asked the airline not to include their loved ones' names: these do not appear. "

Fair enough. So this list is unable to be fully tested for consistency with either of the other four conflicting lists. However, it does agree on the number of people aboard. 92. This creates a real headache for the official story. Is the figure of 92 correct? Should it be really be 97 - the 92 collectively listed innocents plus 5 hijackers? If so, why is everyone saying 92 ? Or were there no hijackers? If so, why is everybody saying 5 ? Or are 5 of these names fictitious ? If so,why ?

The Guardian list also has Heath Smith instead of Heather Smith, and Hashem rather than el-Hachem.

There's another problem. If AA released only 75 names on Sept 13, how did the Boston Daily mange to publish 89 on the same day ? Where did it get the extra names that the airline was still withholding ?

Now the list from NBC
NBC

It lists 87 names for a summation of 92, and is the same as the USAT list, except for the addition of Iskander. That is - the same as the anniversary list from the Boston Daily.

I checked another mainstream media source - PBS

PBS

which entitles its list " One year later. Remembering the victims."

This agrees with the NBC and Boston anniversary lists.

Lets review the problems so far.

From five mainstream media outlets we have four conflicting lists.

Robin Caplin and Robin Kaplan on the same flight is difficult to believe, especially as Caplin is one of the frequently missing names.

The lists can't agree on the correct names for three of the passengers - Hashem/el- Hachem, Heath/Heather Smith, and Antonio Montoya/Valdez .

There are collectively 92 innocents and 5 hijackers for a total of 92 aboard.

So these are the possibilities
a) 5 of the innocents are fictitious
b)There were no hijackers
c) Some of these people were the real hijackers
d) There were 97 people aboard.

I will clarify what I mean by "fictitious". It may be that the extra names represent real people, who are missing and presumed dead. It may be that they have family and friends who honestly believe that the missing person boarded a flight called American Airlines 11. That's a matter for further research. But for five of these individuals who have been listed, (although we can't at this stage specify who ) the belief that they were on AA11 is proven to be false - unless one is to accept one of the other possibilities above.

If this angle alone isn't enough for an actual transparent investigation, I don't know what else could come up.

AAC

[edit on 23-5-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by deltaboy
What is this?

A very good question indeed!





[edit on 23/5/07 by SteveR]

deltaboy

I read your respone. On the one hand your arguing that they got the list out so fast based on the flight manifest, but then your arguing the names of the Arab's are not on the Autopsy list due to them being not identified by the families.

They got the hijacker list out with pictures very quickly. So how exactly did they know since the names on the list could have been based on fake passports?

So to be it simply;

They can't identify them by name since the names could be forged. They can't identify them by DNA since according you the family wasn't used for this. So how exactly are they identifying them??


[edit on 23-5-2007 by talisman]

AAC if you had the chance to look at the true picture of the WHOLE passenger list that includes the hijackers, then you will see that there were Muslims on board.

Originally posted by SteveR

Yeah. There are several of those. These men do exist, but on the planes they were not. Their names and likeness are stolen identities. What we are seeing here are "double agents" born, trained, and possibly still living in the United States.

You are joking right? You know Atta was from Egypt --correct? Atta was an architect and studied in Hamburg Germany..yes? He also obtained a commercial pilots licence in the US in the short time he was in America before he killed himself (and all others on AA flight 11) on 9/11/2001. There is way to much evidence to refute Atta's movement prior to 9/11.


You know Alomari is from Saudi Arabia right?
As for Alomari, did you not see the footage of Alomari at an Al Queda conference in the Middle East? ( it is in Part 3 of the four youtube clips I posted)
Did you not read Alomari's martyrdom speech? What? Do you need these guys to fly a plane into your house to believe what they are telling you?

I love how Atta is conveniently framed in there too.

That is because they were together on 9/10/2001-- ever been to an ATM machine?..and there are pictures of them together on 9/11/2001 as well...behind the security check at the Portland, Maine Airport.

Convieniently framed? Your real name wouldn't be Tim McNivin would it?

I like to include that the list I posted is Flight 77. Including that little girl Dana Falkenberg along with her family. She was on board, even if the autopsy list was mistaken to exclude her.

Originally posted by GwionX
You are joking right? You know Atta was from Egypt --correct? Atta was an architect and studied in Hamburg Germany..yes? He also obtained a commercial pilots licence in the US in the short time he was in America before he killed himself (and all others on AA flight 11) on 9/11/2001. There is way to much evidence to refute Atta's movement prior to 9/11.

Well done. You have successfully looked up the official information for Mohammed Atta. I have to admit, I never had any idea until you managed to bring it to my attention.

That must of taken some hard work, no?

The FBI really should be hiring you.

[edit on 23/5/07 by SteveR]

Originally posted by SteveR

Well done. You have successfully looked up the official information for Mohammed Atta. I have to admit, I never had any idea until you managed to bring it to my attention.

Maybe you should listen to what Mohammed Atta's father has to say. I think recently he is treating his son like a martyr for attacking the U.S. even though previously he says his son had nothing to do with it.

www.cnn.com...

CAIRO, Egypt (CNN) -- The father of one of the hijackers who commandeered the first plane that crashed into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, praised the recent terror attacks in London and said many more would follow.

Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers.

Displayed prominently in the apartment were pictures of el-Amir's son, Mohamed Atta, the man who is believed to have piloted American Airlines Flight 11 into the north tower of the World Trade Center as part of the attacks on the United States.

El-Amir said the attacks in the United States and the July 7 attacks in London were the beginning of what would be a 50-year religious war, in which there would be many more fighters like his son.

Guess he's accepting his death and is pretty much happy about it.

In all honesty, the unbacked words on that page matter not to me.

Even if one considered it, WHY has this man not been hauled in by the authorities. If not for being ATTA'S FATHER, then why not for the blatent encouragement of further terror attacks, and indication that he would supply them with FUNDING.

The CIA is searching for guys like this, but it seems CNN already found them.

But it matters not to me. The whole story is thoroughly unbeleiveble from so many angles. Now we get to the see the true quality of disinfo.

Keep it coming!

Originally posted by SteveR
In all honesty, the unbacked words on that page matter not to me.

Even if one considered it, WHY has this man not been hauled in by the authorities. If not for being ATTA'S FATHER, then why not for the blatent encouragement of further terror attacks, and indication that he would supply them with FUNDING.

The CIA is searching for guys like this, but it seems CNN already found them.

But it matters not to me. The whole story is thoroughly unbeleiveble from so many angles. Now we get to the see the true quality of disinfo.

Keep it coming!

You have millions of people who sympathize with Al Qaeda, the CIA is interested in those who will execute missions to bomb America, not people who get pissed off and express hatred.

It is also important to note that this, if it was an inside job by whomever, you would find a lot of things to argue in favor of. If they created this intricate puzzle, and they developed it from the inside out, they could begin to see what would unfold and adjust accordingly. Therefore, of course there would be tons of supporting evidence for the actual story, that's understandable. But when all these others anomolies compress against the official story, one must start looking at it objectively.

Essentially I'm saying that if I were to argue that mohamad atta wasn't on the plane, you can't say but we have a picture of him at the airport that day. Why? Because the official strategy would need that candid shot for their spin. That doesn't have to mean that he got on the plane and died.

AAC

www.washingtonpost.com...

An example would be this...

A missile fired by a U.S. Predator drone over Yemen Sunday killed six suspected al Qaeda terrorists in a vehicle about 100 miles east of the nation's capital, the first time the United States has used the unmanned weapon outside Afghanistan, sources familiar with the action said yesterday.

A senior administration official said Yemeni defense officials had identified one of the men killed as Abu Ali al-Harithi, a senior al Qaeda leader and one of the terrorist network's top figures in Yemen. Al-Harithi is one of the suspected planners of the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole, which killed 17 American sailors in the Yemeni harbor of Aden, and has been linked to the Oct. 7 bombing of a French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen

The attack by the unmanned aircraft marks a new stage in Washington's war on terror and a step up in U.S. assistance for Yemeni President Ali Abdallah Salih's fight against terrorists who have taken refuge in his mountainous country. Since Salih's meeting with President Bush at the White House in December, military assistance to Yemen has grown to include weapons and training by U.S. Special Forces units.

Originally posted by deltaboy
AAC if you had the chance to look at the true picture of the WHOLE passenger list that includes the hijackers, then you will see that there were Muslims on board.

Hey Delta could you please post a link to those lists. Thanks.

AAC

Originally posted by SteveR

Well done. You have successfully looked up the official information for Mohammed Atta. I have to admit, I never had any idea until you managed to bring it to my attention.

That must of taken some hard work, no?

The FBI really should be hiring you.

And Al Queda should be hiring you.....If they haven't already..hmmm.

You probably think you live in the USA..But how do you know?

(cue creepy twilightzone music)

Do you just blindly believe what "THEY" tell you? Have you ever mapped it out to find out if you do live in the USA?

No, I doubt you have---

And George Washington? They want you to believe that he was the first president of this "alleged" USA.. Well, where is the proof? I never saw the final poll numbers-- were they forged?!! I demand answers! Is there really an FBI? Prove it..just a few websites and buildings--that could easily be staged just to fool and confuse important ole' YOU.

(/creepy twilightzone music)

crediblity-- and peoples individual perception of what is credible....strange indeed. Alex Jones is more credible than US institutions that have existed for decades or centuries...BAH!

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


Hey Delta could you please post a link to those lists. Thanks.

AAC

www.911myths.com...

Sure here.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


Hey Delta could you please post a link to those lists. Thanks.

AAC

www.911myths.com...

Sure here.

What is that? Thats not a linK? How long to those take to make?

Originally posted by deltaboy
You have millions of people who sympathize with Al Qaeda, the CIA is interested in those who will execute missions to bomb America, not people who get pissed off and express hatred.

Did you read my post?

The man is the 9/11 Kingpin's FATHER, and has stated he WILL FUND terrorist groups.

Just one of the millions who "get pissed off and express hatred"?

I want to know who or what anesthetized your brain.

Originally posted by GwionX
Do you just blindly believe what "THEY" tell you? Have you ever mapped it out to find out if you do live in the USA?

No, I doubt you have---

And George Washington? They want you to believe that he was the first president of this "alleged" USA.. Well, where is the proof? I never saw the final poll numbers-- were they forged?!! I demand answers! Is there really an FBI? Prove it..just a few websites and buildings--that could easily be staged just to fool and confuse important ole' YOU.


crediblity-- and peoples individual perception of what is credible....strange indeed. Alex Jones is more credible than US institutions that have existed for decades or centuries...BAH!

This is by far the most prestine example of a sheep thinking that since he is in the majority, he must be right. Perhaps you are an intellectual, yet you are so prideful that you refused to believe that the wool is covering your comprehension.

I stand by everything SteveR says and I happen to have a pretty high IQ. Are you that stubborn that you can't see objectively?

Just asking.

AAC

Originally posted by SteveR
Did you read my post?

The man is the 9/11 Kingpin's FATHER, and has stated he WILL FUND terrorist groups.

Just one of the millions who "get pissed off and express hatred"?

I want to know who or what anesthetized your brain.

Don't insult me...if you read his words you would notice that he never said he was going to execute a mission himself, says only encourage somebody to do it.

Reminds me of that hook man in Britain where he praises attacks and demands that more people should join the hijackers. I don't think he was ever killed has he?