The horrors of the War on Terror

Aryan watch- Iam with you. I do not want anyone to go against their own country.I myself am not anti- American, or anti muslim or any other country or religion.All I want is for a call to end the weapons being used( in an unjustified war).There must be more intelligent ways to deal with "terrorists".

I, like many others believe911 was an inside job,

AD - This is the most atrocious comment one can ever imagine. I can only pity you and all others like you who can even dream of a theory like this? And for what? I have gone through a lot of posts supporting this theory on ATS but for god sake it's criminal even to think like that. With due respect again,do you people really feel in your hearts of hearts believe this utter nonsense. And that too based on some stupid video analysis. It's like saying that America caused a supernova 300 million light years away.

Please give people who love their county a break

Originally posted by AryanWatch
Let's accept the fact - Iraqi's would have died fighting each other and due to their own designs and WE decided to save them. What is happening there is not uncommon in any war. It's the same - blood and guts. Please stop acting that we have suddenly realized this fact by looking at those photos.

Lets NOT accept that. Lets deny some ignorance here.

The Kurds were gassed in 1988 and the US did bugger all about it.

It was only after Kuwait was invaded in '91 and the world realised one of the major oil suppliers was being turfed over that the US decided Saddam Hussein wasn't worth propping up as a counterweight to Iran.

After the '91 Gulf War Iraq became one of the most heavily sanctioned and surveilled Countries in the world and yet according to the US administration they still managed to develop some kind of nuclear capability.

The US lead "COW" invaded Iraq on the premise of non-compliance with the UN Nuclear inspections and WMD, after nearly 12 months of continually discrediting the UN investigations, calling them inept and deciding to operate unilaterally with NO sanction from the UN security council in invading the country, relying on the paranoia of a post 9/11 world.

There was no civil war in Iraq prior to the invasion and deposing of Saddam Hussein - there may have been localised events but the infrastructure of the country was not ruined and radical extemists were suppressed by the Ba'ath regime and not running amok like there are now.

In short, "WE" did no such thing. The US went in on the back of a horrific event in order to protect the oil supply. All this stuff about "Saddam Husseins human rights record" meant sod all pre and post 9/11 until it turned out that the whole WMD thing was a total crock of BS.

The US turned Hussein into a paraiah following the 91 war and then went after him when the first proper opportunity became available.

[edit on 23/0507/07 by neformore]

[edit on 23/0507/07 by neformore]

To add to Nefermore's post, the Kurds were gassed by Iran not Iraq in case anyone didn't know, as this was news to me. uruknet.info...

Great post Accessdenied some more flags needed though.

I new about this when a scientist who was responsible for reporting the levels of radiation from weapons in Iraq died from cancer shortly after some time in Iraq.

Did i say great thread


Did i forget to mention it needs more flags

I for one am dead against the use of these weapons, simply because of the long term effects on civllians pehaps for millenia to come.
That web site is truly Horrific but everyone needs to see it and read every bit of it and maybe, just maybe the little guy might stand up to governments and corporations and find a better way forward.

Thanks Accessdenied for tuely denying Ignorance

Many thanks Reaper2. Iam still wondering though if it is even getting through to some people.I really never expected there to be a debate over whether this is justified or not.There is just no changing some peoples minds.Many of them seem to be missing the fact that the effects of DU and war itself are brought home with our troops, and we will soon see it appearing here.Very sad.I encourage everyone to read all posts and links before making comments.

This is an update.I did not think I could find anything worse than my initial post.But I did. This baby was born to a US soldier who fought in the Gulf War. Mods please feel free to create a link to this instead of the image. Please read these as well. www.envirosagainstwar.org... and this one.WARNING- EXTREMELY GRAPHIC.WORSE THAN THE INITIAL POST ON THIS THREAD. educate-yourself.org...

I will not be posting any more photos as I believe we all understand what we are dealing with here.I really did not want to post the picture of the gulf war soldiers child above, however there seems to be too many who still believe that it is better them than us.Apparently DU will come back to haunt those who use it.

I have seen many a debate here that it is better to kill these kids before they become Terrorists.It is my belief that the war itself is creating terrorism. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by AryanWatch

All for what?? OIL!

mikesingh - It is not for oil. It is much more than that. It's for our nation. If it was for oil we could have done what we are doing now long back. Yep,that would have been better i think.

AryanWatch, I don’t agree when you say that ‘we are doing it for our nation’. What exactly are you doing for your nation? Is it your nation you are fighting for or are you getting your soldiers killed fighting someone else’s war in a land thousands of miles away?

Why do you fight a war? It is a continuation of politics by other means. So what was the political stake in Iraq? Before or after 9/11, had Iraq ever the ability or the capability to launch WMDs against America, and threaten/destroy its vital interests there? This was said to be the raison d'etre for launching an offensive against Iraq. So what happened to those WMDs? They couldn’t see hair nor hide of them. So it’s clear this was just an excuse that backfired.

Bush had to get there by any means, with or without UN approval. The overall game plan was…

A. Get a foot-hold in the Middle East by invading Iraq.

B. Force a regime change and install a pliable government.

C. Enforce American style ‘democracy’ as a precursor to ‘nationalizing’ all energy assets (Oil) for complete American control by proxy.

D. Enlarge the foot-hold into a bridge-head to include other Middle East countries, rich in oil resources, and enforce gradual regime changes to enforce American style democracy throughout the Middle East. And therefore gain control of three fourths the world’s energy resources.

And to this end, human lives don’t matter. The numbers are just statistics. What matters is wealth and absolute power. 3000 soldiers dead and counting…Thousands of innocent civilians, men women and children killed… Babies born deformed… a nation in trauma with no salvation in sight from the daily horrors of blood splattered streets and the agony of burying their loved ones in a worn out cemetery at the edge of town.

Heck! Who’s bothered? These are just warts in the grand strategy for attaining the neo-con dream of a New World Order.

Originally posted by mikesingh
Bush had to get there by any means, with or without UN approval. The overall game plan was…

A. Get a foot-hold in the Middle East by invading Iraq.

B. Force a regime change and install a pliable government.

C. Enforce American style ‘democracy’ as a precursor to ‘nationalizing’ all energy assets (Oil) for complete American control by proxy.

D. Enlarge the foot-hold into a bridge-head to include other Middle East countries, rich in oil resources, and enforce gradual regime changes to enforce American style democracy throughout the Middle East. And therefore gain control of three fourths the world’s energy resources.

Your points are pretty spot on, id just like to add once "US interests" are secured, the goal will be to give these new "democratic" nations "independance" (the removal for troops and governmental officals from the west) while keeping hold of the economy through foreign investment and US aid. The cost of a colony is too high these days, easier to reap the benefits of colonialism through control of the economy than direct colonial rule.

A fantastic thread, AccessDenied...well done !

Despite some naysayers, I don't believe this "issue" has been done to death at all...

The US and its allies (Australia, Britain) lied about the WMD, they got caught on that one...Then it was to liberate the country from a dictator...

Well, under the dictator, Iraq had law and order and some semblance of a society...

Four years on, hundreds of thousands dead, infrastructure destroyed, complete lawlessness despite the huge military presence....A nation teetering on the edge of civil war

There's no way you can justify doing this to a sovereign nation...Its just plain wrong, from whichever angle you look at it

Again, good job AccessDenied and others who have made positive contribution to this thread...Keep on denying ignorance folks, that's where its at

Spot on MikeSingh...

Its the old NWO formula they've used time and again

1) Create a problem...Orchestrate 9/11 to have the public believe we need a war on terror

2) Offer a solution...If we invade afghanistan we can wipe out the terrorists, oh, and btw, Saddam has WMD which he might well pass on to terrorists...

3) Put the solution into operation...Invade Afghanistan, invade Iraq and in the meantime, back home, convince people some of their "freedoms" need to be curtailed in order to fight terrorism...

And so it goes, time and time again...

[edit on 24-5-2007 by Rilence]

Rilence, thank you for your praise and posts.I 100% agree with everything you said.

Lessons of History and Abuses of Trust


Hi,

As some Members noticed, the issue is not so simple but maybe the Chapter 2 from the referenced e-book in a previous post could help to clarify the situation because he briefly describes some less known strange situations and secret projects.

About war and terrorism, just to think in the Atomic experiments with radiation bombarding on USA Soldiers…

brotherthebig.

Brotherthebig, What e-book and where do I get it?

This may be a way out in left field connection, but this topic reminded me of one of the murals at the Denver airport.

It's awful isn't it!?

I recently went into a site where I read the following:

“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”



The hate speech is blatant and obvious to all.

Then then I read the most shocking thing of all

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

A Sura is a chapter in the Quran. The Muslim Students Association of the University of Southern California have put the Quran on-line so we can all read those verses for ourselves. The Quran

Those verses explain how men like this can say what they say. www.youtube.com...

What a strange world? Today it seems the worst thing you can possibly do is calling something evil, this is even viewed as worse than doing something evil. The following video puts things into perspective.

All terrorism is ugly.

[edit on 26-5-2007 by BBBrad]

[edit on 26-5-2007 by BBBrad]

BBBrad, I want to thank you for your post and the links you provided. To repeat myself somewhat, I did not start this thread to debate whether or not there are muslim extremists or whether there should be a war on terror.From your link I see it does not matter whether extremist or not they will support one another.My focus of this thread was the type of weapons being used, and the after effects of such not just to the Iraqi people but our troops as well.I was looking at this from the perspective of a mother and for my sister who's husband is a Canadian soldier.I did watch the video of the children with guns and bombs strapped to them.Thank you for the wake up call.However that being said, there are to many wars fought over a difference in religious belief and I realize that has been going on for thousands of years and I don't forsee a change now. But IMHO if you are going to declare war on a foreign country to protect your own you better have your facts straight, your plan laid out start to finish, be open and honest with your country about what you are doing and what you are using to do it, and let the people of your country decide if you proceed or not.I believe this war has made more terrorists than ever before, and caused far more problems than it was supposed to solve.

Originally posted by BBBrad

Then I read the most shocking thing of all

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

What a strange world? Today it seems the worst thing you can possibly do is calling something evil, this is even viewed as worse than doing something evil.

Let me make it clear that I’m not a Muslim. But I strongly feel that there is a misguided section or more precisely, a large section amongst the Muslim population that interprets the Quran in ways that would help them in achieving their own nefarious, immoral ends.

There are extremists in most religious faiths, be it Christian, Hindu, or Muslim. But should we paint all religions per se and those who follow these faiths with this extremist brush because of the fundamentalist ideologies of a few with their self serving interpretations? Unfortunately, it is the moderates like most of us who seem to be losing the battle.

The few heretics who blasphemously justify murder in the name of Islam, passing off terrorism of cowards for the jihad of the brave, do only by twisting Islam’s texts and playing upon the fears and prejudices of an uninformed public.

Prince Charles, visiting Oxford University in 1993, stated, ‘Our common attitude to Islam suffers because the way we understand it has been hijacked by the extreme and the superficial.’ Indeed, the Prophet himself warned his followers to ‘Beware of extremism in matters of religion. For truly, those before you were destroyed on account of (their) religious extremism.’ (Ahmed & Nisai)

Islam’s non-Muslim enemies likewise selectively quote or misquote the Revelation to suggest that Islam encourages the wanton persecution and slaughter of infidels. However, an honest, holistic study of Qur’an and Sunna reveals that those passages dealing with warfare are explicit, calling for equity and justice; always taking the side of the oppressed – believer or disbeliever- against the oppressor, advising leniency and halting of war in favor of peace.

In fact, there exists in Islam a great library of texts clearly forbidding murder whilst extolling the sanctity of human life, ‘life, which Allah has made sacred’ (The Holy Quran, Chapter 6, Verse 151). ‘Whoever kills one (non-Muslim) under contract (of Muslim protection) will never smell the scent of Paradise.’ (Ibn Majah).

But for the fundamentalist Muslim, Jihad is war against the non believers, the non Muslims, the infidels. Nothing is farther from the truth.

www.thetruecall.com...