Scientology's response to BBC Panorama exclusive

You got that right.

I was brainwashed and the awakening was very hard on me. The independents was hard to figure out as well.

I have recently figured out the rest of what I did not know.

I talk a lot and I read a lot so I pick up a lot. What I said I am sure is so.

I think Ron meant for the church to go down if it was taken over.

Originally posted by T0by
Wow Fancylady, that's alot of typing thankyou for all of that.
I hope it helps a few people to understand abit about what scientology is supposed to be and that it does have some good in it.

The bottom line is that its been hijacked beyond repair and recognition. I think in its current state it's quite a dangerous thing.

You are right.

The friend I mentioned before is so brainwashed by her Christianity that she will not look at anything logical. The earth is only a few thousand years old and gays are not born like that.

I am more open minded to logic and always have been.

I never always did what the church told me to do. Like not to talk to one lady who worked for them for years and she had to steal from them to live. She dedicated herself so much to them she in the end died. She was diabetic and did not get any medical care as she had no medical insurance. She lived with her mom to make it. My mom and I in the end helped her to get disablity and a place to live and place her mom as she could no longer take care of her as well.

I knew Ellie Perkins and Jeremy. Jeremy was not nuts but after he want to the upper level orgs he had problems and they hid it. I did not know he was having problems. I was tossed by the time it hit the fan.

My thought is the upper orgs screwed him up on purpose and refused to help him. So my first auditor was killed by her own son. Her son was different a home body but not the way I thought. I actually think he did not want to be in the church and was forced to be in it because family was in it.

So another Bad PR in the church. They don't need me to give them bad PR. They do it all by themselves.

CBS wanted to talk to me of it and I am a poor judge of people so I talked to a leader of the independents and he offered to handle it for me so I told him what I knew and let him speak to CBS but the guy just wanted dirt and I don't need to give TV dirt. They had enough with out me to shoot themselves in the foot as the church always does.

Independents talk of this all the time. Calls them stupid which is obvious. It is meant to take down the church and destroy it and that is what a real suppressive does. So that is why there was a policy to handle or disconnect. Sometimes one can't handle a suppressive and one has to cut ties to them.

Those who are connected to them are called PTS (potential trouble sources) and all the members of the church are PTS. Every single one of them because they are connected to suppressive managment. So you wonder why the church is always causing it self problems that is why.

Originally posted by 64738
Well Scientology may not be the ideal religion but i see a lot of 'brainwashing' and asking for money in other religions like Christianity ans Islam too. And they never offer any real solutions for problems, just prayer and faith, while Scientology is modern religion with Dianetics and many other helpful methods.

Many times people intentionally point out just bad stuff in order to demonize Scientology. Maybe this all originates from church or even political circles because they see Scientology is successful in some areas where they are corrupted and unable to help.

So, my point is, if you take away all the exaggerated horror stories, you actually end up with something better than church or mosque can offer today. No wonder they attack it so much.

I see, so what do you think would be best to do, to reform them or to destroy them? I see some good material but also a lot of crap and classical cult behavior so at least reform is needed.

Also, they would probably attack websites offering help those who want to recover from brainwashing? There is a need to do this, for most religions.

Some independents don't think a reform is possible some want it.

I spent years watching the church hoping to see it reform but too much time has went by and I have started to move on and accept I am where I have to be.

I quit watching ARS to see who is doing what. I still watch a few thing but not very much any more.

When the dirt hits the fan as it always does there is going to be a big need to salvage people. Some may kill themselves for the loss of the future spiritual life. Many will be angry at the loss of the money and the local churches that they worked so hard to put there but do not own.

I know of one locally that donated a million dollars for the local church and this guy is supposed to be an investment expert. Don't he know you don't invest in to something that someone else owns and controls.

I think a rescue operation should be set up when it happens. There to be people to false data strip them of the lies they were fed.

Some will make it through for they are not in bad shape. For some the church is their only hope for a better life.

Many never worked elsewhere and the church is their life. I know and loved one that is still there like this.

It is the members fault this is. Like how the USA is being overrun with our freedoms being lost with barely a whimper to fight it. I at least noticed something while in the church and I fought it. Maybe the wrong way and reason but I did fight it. It is going to be a big mess if and when it happens.

There are not enough independents to rescue them. They are working to train more people but it will not be enough.

I know some in the church already know what is going on but are keeping quiet because of the abuses.

So some will not make it and it can't be websites for they often don't do computers for they are not allowed to or have net nannies on them.

I don't have the solution and you are right most religions have this problem.

I don't like how many Christians act like they got all the answers as well.

I got into fights with that friend. She has it all taped out how the world will go because the bible told her so. Myself I think the Bible is stories to tell one about how to live life and there are UFO's in it as well as other things.

The Bible as well has been altered. In Trek in the Vulcan series on Enterprise, Archer speaks of how religions texts gets altered for the benefit of the runs running the religion.

frankly, I don't know the answers to much. About 911, but I do know the church is hurting people and altering the teachings and is being run by suppressives and the membership allowed it to happen.

Just an opinion and I may not be right.

Originally posted by 64738
I see, so what do you think would be best to do, to reform them or to destroy them? I see some good material but also a lot of crap and classical cult behavior so at least reform is needed.

Also, they would probably attack websites offering help those who want to recover from brainwashing? There is a need to do this, for most religions.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by FancyLady]

[edit on 19-5-2007 by FancyLady]

[edit on 19-5-2007 by FancyLady]

FancyLady thanks again for your contributions.
I'm pretty amazed this thread isn't on fire actually.
Theres alot i'd like to talk about but it would probably just be us agreeing with each other.. I think we both pretty much see the situation for what it is. I love the stories you have to tell though.

I want to know how this is allowed to happen as it is...
There should be more investigation.

I have to side with the church of Scientology on this one. I mean technically they are a religion; they are tax exempt, they have numerous institutions throughout the nation, just like other religions do. They have recovery programs and learning groups, and scholastic centers, just like other religions do....etc. Anyway...that reporter seemed very unprofessional in his behavior and manners... and for him to raise his voice at someone he is supposedly interviewing..should have ended his career right there. That really made BBC look bad.

Wow, great video - the one from the scientologist that is.

The BBC one, well here we go.
The woman said that her daughter came home and had scientology books, etc. and she was really into it. She basically said, "they had taken my daughter away."
This comment was before the letter of separation.

Heres the point: Woman, had you shown 'love'/acceptance for your daughter then she may want to communicate with you. But when you judged her, it seems harshly, just for having a lot of scientology literature and 'speaking' scientology talk (as she put it) - what did you expect? Its as if the communication was cut off...from the moms end.

Just like a lot of parents...thinking they know whats right for the child even after the child is older. If she is wrong, the daughter needs to find out for herself...it doesnt appear that there is a life threatening situation that the mom should be so concerned..just a threat to an 'ego' and way of 'thought' that she knows whats best for the child, etc. - actually that is 'controlling behavior'.

I have a slow internet connect, so I have finished either video, but the one from the BBC has the feel of hyping a paranoid point of view.

Who knows, maybe its a publicity stunt.
After all, scientology is just now 're-opening' in London - what better than a little hype? lol

Anyway - people have to walk their own paths...and this whole breaking families up, I dont buy into it. People go their own ways. When you truly are growing on your path, no matter what road you choose, you may just grow away from your family. In some instances this can be beneficial if they are not where you want to be...and you dont need 'luggage' to hold you back.

Sure this flies in the face of 'tradition', but tradition doesnt advance.
And again, who did the initial cutting off? You saw the mothers rejection of the new interest her daughter had...so in effect, the relationship was put on ice there...by the party who is locked into a certain way of thinking.

Peace

I see, well your fight is something everyone should respect and offer help. I know how hard it must be to fight something so big as organized religion with all the abuses and crime they do.

This is because "leaders" get corrupted with power and they are lost spiritually and just care about lower stuff like wealth and status. This is present in ALL religions and politics today, mostly because they used religion as political instrument in past and still do today. Just look how much Christian right in USA wants to run politics which is unconstitutional and wrong.

Scientology seems to me like big cult with all strict rules and taking advantage of devoted people. I feel sorry for all who devote time and even life for them or any other church or secret society. It's not worth it and you almost never find anything spiritual. Only strict rules, greed and corruption at top.

Good stuff they do is done mostly to get new members. For example ex-junkies are very easy to brainwash or people in poor countries where they are happy to get some food and clothes and simple school. This is not help because you want to do good but because you want to gain from it.

Oh, and the term brainwashing, that was thrown around in the video...what a loose term.
Its one of those keywords that when you hear it you want to shy away from whatever it is that its referring to...which in affect, is 'brain washing' :-)

Brainwashing isnt just in religion, its in Patriotism too...(see my ats blog Patriotism, a humbug) If we could think for ourselves and stop identifying as a particular nation (mother nature knows no boundaries lol ) then all the other stuff would gradually fix itself to...

Peace

The Scientology video was very good.
However whenever it showed the bbc reporter trying to get a response at a door that no-one is at...how did they get the footage of this. I mean, it wasn't a remote camera...he even looked into the camera. Was it a hidden camera? If so, good quality, but at the same time it came from different angles.

Point is, it looks as if that shot was planned.
I know, the BBC would have to be in on it, or at least the journalist.
There you go, a larger conspiracy for you...the bbc and scientology join hands.
The negative publicity if fine, as the follow up video reinforces the 'rightness' of the view point of the scientologist.

Again, personally, I dont care either way - I just found that it was interesting at times that it seemed that the scientology crew would have to have been filming him with his knowledge - which in some instances wouldn't match as it was trying to show a 'behind' the scenes look. (or rather, we caught him in actions and he didn't know)

Peace

- went back and watched the video again.
I suppose some shots they were able to get back from the BBC for their video.
That would explain some of the scenes that you wouldnt think that they could have shot. (Like the one at the back-door)

[edit on 20-5-2007 by dAlen]

Some think it is caused by a govenment takeover and the NWO stuff.

Some think it is just one guy who was smart enough to take it over and become a dictator.

For me with the IRS in the middle of setting up the corrent corp structure I tend to think the gov had a hand in it for some reason.

But for me besides losing those I loved there is not much for me to bother with any more besides handling some loose ends I have in the church.

Originally posted by T0by
FancyLady thanks again for your contributions.
I'm pretty amazed this thread isn't on fire actually.
Theres alot i'd like to talk about but it would probably just be us agreeing with each other.. I think we both pretty much see the situation for what it is. I love the stories you have to tell though.

I want to know how this is allowed to happen as it is...
There should be more investigation.

Like many church and business they use it for PR.

I know for I was a friend of the local OSA person before I was tossed.

On most blizzards they would not shovel the walks. But wait to a PR campaign through the news and all the sudden they had a hot dog shovel the walks in the city party.

I see this too many times.

I see it at Wally world and many other places as well so it is not new.

Originally posted by laiguana
I have to side with the church of Scientology on this one. I mean technically they are a religion; they are tax exempt, they have numerous institutions throughout the nation, just like other religions do. They have recovery programs and learning groups, and scholastic centers, just like other religions do....etc. Anyway...that reporter seemed very unprofessional in his behavior and manners... and for him to raise his voice at someone he is supposedly interviewing..should have ended his career right there. That really made BBC look bad.

The church video I noticed was heavily edited. Things could have been taken out of context.

Independent that talked of this very subject says there were lies in their video as well.

Both sides did not do well in this matter.

Yes, brainwashing is all around us in all things.

It is hard to tell what is truth and not these days.

Originally posted by dAlen
Oh, and the term brainwashing, that was thrown around in the video...what a loose term.
Its one of those keywords that when you hear it you want to shy away from whatever it is that its referring to...which in affect, is 'brain washing' :-)

Brainwashing isnt just in religion, its in Patriotism too...(see my ats blog Patriotism, a humbug) If we could think for ourselves and stop identifying as a particular nation (mother nature knows no boundaries lol ) then all the other stuff would gradually fix itself to...

Peace

Just a point - - about brainwashing and propaganda - - being everywhere.

Please don't take this off in a different direction.

In My Opinion: Something as simple as having school children recite a Pledge of Allegiance to a country is brainwashing.

No One should automatically and systematically Pledge to Anything - - until it is by choice - - and of an age to understand what it means.

We live with brainwashing and propaganda from the moment we are born - - if not before that in how it affects our parental unit.

Yes, also Scientology documentary has one, hmm let's say expert, saying 'brainwashing' is a term used when you want to present someone in a bad light. While this is true it doesn't mean there is no real mind reprogramming (brainwashing) used on people. This is done usually this way:

- we explain you mysteries and unknown, purpose of your life and everything, so you are naturally interested (poor souls seeking spiritual)

- we offer solution to most of your problems WHEN you are cooperating and agree with us in everything, there is no maybe

- people outside our group are influenced by ENEMY who wants to destroy us because they are envy of what we have, don't ever listen to them, they may even be possessed by Satan

- since you are dedicated you should give us money, property, all your time and even friends and family, this will show us your devotion and determination

- ultimate truth (or we should say LIE) is hidden from you all the time since that would mean 'getting even' and people would have no reason to stay in cult/church anymore

So in fact Scientology representing term brainwashing just as an insult to them is brainwashing in itself. Yes, also you can see mild form of it in media and movies today. They use fear + repetition, for example evil terrorists from caves, dictator who kills children and so on. Whatever makes you agree with war. Depends on you exclusively how long you allow them to do that.

Cult-like brainwashing is present in all religions today, even in Tibet. My advice is to just stop listening to them and use your brain. Never trust people who offer you something 'in future' and ask for money, dedication and resources today. If they are so enlightened, why do they need your money?

[edit on 20-5-2007 by 64738]

I said most of what I thought. On Alt Clearing Tech one of the first independents called, The Pilot is back posting now what has happened to him in the last 10 years or so.

It is scarey to me if he says what he is saying is true. I wonder if the church did someone of the like to me and I don't know it.

I am going to leave this thread to you guys. I think sometimes I need to speak up to show the tech is not bad and to get honesty out there instead of critic thoughts out there.

The independents is called the Free Zone they don't condone these actions the church does and not all of the indie's are standard in their tech as well.

It is a different world but one has to realize many came from the church and still have the church think.

For now I need to let you guys examine the truth for yourself. Just don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

In short, to summarize whole thread (how dare i, hehe) Scientology has also some positive aspects, but also these are a lot of times mixed with negative or some hidden agenda, for example helping junkies and later converting them to Scientology or helping with schools in 3rd world countries. I wish they left children there alone, they are already victims of militia and Christian propaganda.

Second issue are people who are recovering from cult-like regime and how to help them, but i see you are already organized in Scientology v2 called Free Zone.

OK, i am leaving the thread too.

Originally posted by 64738
In short, to summarize whole thread (how dare i, hehe) Scientology has also some positive aspects,

Sure all religions have there positives - Im collecting the good pieces and soon you can join the church of 'dayology' -

Im serious (not about the church), but that each lie has a ton of truth (thats why its an effective lie.

Just like martial arts...you train until you 'master' the art, then cross train in another.
Finally you mix the arts...taking what suits you...your an individual, how do you 'digest' and flow with information. We all process and 'perceive' differently so we all will 'react' differently. Same with religion. We need to understand it for ourselves - until we 'master it' and are like 'the water' fluid and able to adapt it and make it 'practical' for everyday life situations.

This way our 'light' will shine to the world...and we will stop being a nuinance to each other as we stop trying to 'convert' and changes others to 'our way' of thinking.

This was lesson one from the church of 'dayology' -

Peace

'lord' dA'y'•len