Is Scientology A Religion or a Secret Cuilt/Society

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

Nope this was your response when you first posted your comments on here, if I was not interested, I would not have opened up the thread in the first place, I also posted,I would like to see other members thoughts comments about this religion or cult.. And as I said before, I never had heardof this religion up until I read the article on the bbc news site... That is what got me interested in finding out more... about it...

It's your thread, sorry I didn't post what you wanted to hear.
You can see from many of the posts in your thread that people are just posting things they've picked up from the web or from the controlled media, and not very much personal experience.

I'm giving you my thoughts and comments from first hand experience, and I've even offered to answer any specific question you have.

Let it rip.
What else do you want to know ???

I have a sincere question about scientology.

I dont know enough information to judge so i am not coming from that angle.

Is it possible to join and advance without having wealth to hand over?

What, if any agreements or arrangments are made for those that cant afford it?

Yes, it is a fact that "Church" members have indeed done jail time for breaking and entering the IRS offices. They have also broken and entered offices of psychiatrists and stolen private files. Stalking and harassment charges have been filed numerous times and there are currently harassment charges filed against "church" members for stalking.

A family member of mine was the target of this type of illegal activity perpetrated by "church" members. Why? Simply for helping a member break free from the brainwashing, and helping them find peace outside the cult.

Any group that uses harassment tactics to maintain its membership, or to silence critics, is highly suspect for their motivations.

And YES, if you look at the higher beliefs of the "church" you will indeed find that they truly claim to believe that Alien Ghosts are the cause of all our worries and that is one reason why they have such hatred for psychiatrists. The real reason is that they know that any good psychiatrist can easily demonstrate the truth about brainwashing and cult activity going on in the "church" of scientology.

"I'm betting no one posting in this thread has ever even been inside a Scientology Church."

You lose. I went into one in '77, with an Army friend. Boston.

"You can see from many of the posts in your thread that people are just posting things they've picked up from the web or from the controlled media, and not very much personal experience."

No, I'm posting things I picked up watching my Army friend turn into a raving dingbat.

I read some of his $cientology books. I read Elrons proclamation that all SPs are fair game. Saw that with my own eyes, in a $cientology published book.

Hows does Scientology compare with other religions is my first question, Is the religion too extreme in its beliefs, compared to say Christianity or Islam or even any other religion.

Is it true that this religion takes away members of a family an breaks families up?

Do they have people following critics of their religion around, stalkin them (in the uk that is harrassment), filmin them,taken pictures of them, finding out past history of thier personal lives. just a few questions for now, willpost more later.

Oh and yes I am reading info on the Internet with regards to scientology, just wanna hear othermemberspoints of views

[edit on 14-5-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

Originally posted by brotherforchrist
The thing that gets me is that there IS documented proof of the Church of Scientology's leaders being involved in illegal activities,

Yep there is, there is also documented proof of just about every other religions leaders being involved in illegal activities.

I guess what I'm trying to find out is why it seems you hold Scientology to some sort of higher standard than other religions? Religions consist of people, and people sometimes do bad things.

For example the BTK Killer was a leader in his Protestant church, does that make all Protestants bad? Just his particular church?

Oh and for the record.. I do think Scientology is weird.. however I don't think they are evil, bad, whatever. Just weird and not for me.

It isn't that easy. The beliefs of $cientology change as you progress through the levels. Deeper you get, wackier it gets.

You have to do a great deal of studying to get to a point where you can ask meaningful questions.

To start, may I suggest:

L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon

A Piece of Blue Sky: Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard Exposed by Jon Atack

Tell me something else,why is it that the Church of England does not recognize scientology as a religion but as a cult....

Church leaders and council bosses were locked in a row today after a group branded "little more than a cult" was allowed to take over prominent public space.

The Diocese of Birmingham attacked the city council's decision to let the Church of Scientology launch its volunteer ministers' centre in Centenary Square.

Diocesan spokesman Arun Arora said the controversial movement, founded by science-fiction writer L Ron Hubbard and backed by Hollywood stars Tom Cruise and John Travolta, was "as much a religion as a dog is a vegetable".

Mr Arora, diocesan director of communications, said Scientology was "regarded by many as little more than a cult".

"Scientology has rightly been refused recognition as a religion by the UK Charity Commissioners.

LINK

And also why The UK will not recognize Scientology as a religion either? Although they have opened a new Office in London,wonder where else they are gonna go to hmmmmms..

[edit on 14-5-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

Originally posted by KTK
Is it possible to join and advance without having wealth to hand over?

What, if any agreements or arrangments are made for those that cant afford it?

Most of the basic courses cost very little, and you can co-audit your way to Clear for about $4.00, the price of a Dianetics book.

You can get the full package into the OT levels for next to nothing if you exchange auditing with other members.

Everyone seems to focus on people that payed for the top of the line services, but most members fly couch, and not all of us have the resources that people like John Travolta has.

Yes, some people fly first class, but it's there choice to pay for those services. If you want to stay in a 5 star room at the Fort Harrison while on a course you had better pony up the money, and you'll get 5 star service.


Every organization and person in the world wants your money, it's up to you where you want to spend it.
you can always say no........

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Tell me something else,why is it that the Church of England does not recognize scientology as a religion but as a cult....

What a silly question.

Why doesn't Islam support the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by brotherforchrist
I am not saying that you or anyone else does not have the right to believe what he or she wants and worship diety in the manner that they see fit. If you want to believe in alien ghosts, Jesus, Buddah, Allah, Vishnu, Diana, Set, that you are god, that a tree is god, that god is an energy force, whatever, it does not affect me in the least, and I have no right to impose my views theologically on you.

However, I can't withhold information on something that could potentially cost a curious person every penny that they own (Yes it has happened on more than one occasion), and harm them.

I have NOTHING against individual scientologists, but I feel that the church grossly misrespresents itself, and milks people for all that they have.

I wonder when someone does have the right to impose their views on someone else..
When is the right time?

Do you wait until hitler has political power and amassed a huge army?
And wait until terrorists have that nuclear bomb, before you take action? You woudln't want to take action before hand since they're entitled to their religious beliefs right?

It can be so tricky, freedom, and being entitled to your own beliefs.
As beliefs can have a ripple in the pond effect. Someone elses beliefs might not affect you at first, that is until the ripple has travelled a few minutes and hits you at the edge of the pond.

That is why when i argue about religion I dont do it because I want to be right or have something to prove to them. If that were the case then I would be unsure of myself, which I'm not in the least. I just do it because I would like to create a few good ( In my mind ) ripples of my own and lessen the effect or cancel out the bad ones.

Heres a step by step example of how it goes.

1 ) You start the religion, which in itself is a flawed act. It's imperfect from the start. Which means you are bringing all of your flawed personal beliefs into it, ready to be followed by your followers.
2 ) Your followers continue to spread your beliefs, and misinterpret them further after you've died, bringing their own flaws into it. They have not been given proper guidelines and morals since yours were flawed from the beginning.
3 ) The result is death, fighting, greed, and control. If your holy words were truly inspiring and life changing, this would not happen. The folllowers would not do these things because of your teachings even if the ones up top were corrupt.

If i'm really harsh, i'll say this is true of every religion. You can apply it to almost any of them.
They are perfect examples of the good and bad in humans. Why?
Because they were created by humans.
I dont believe religion as a written word can exist in a perfect state, because I dont believe god communicates through word.
There are varying degrees of untruths.

And I certainly don't believe any truths can come from the origins of scientology. So think about its longterm effects.

Seriously flawed religious beliefs are like cancer. You may seem fine at first but then it mutates, spreads and causes death. The problem with this kind of cancer is that it is contageous.

So forgive me for trying to wipe it out

www.factnet.org...

Yanno what anxietydisorder, dont even respond tomy comments if ur gonna hit me with sacarsm like that........

On that note im gettin nippy time for bed I thinks

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Yanno what anxietydisorder, dont even respond tomy comments if ur gonna hit me with sacarsm like that........

Have a good sleep spencerjohnstone.....

I tried, and I don't understand your animosity.
I guess I'll bail on this thread.

ok, Anderson Cooper is interviewing a former Scientologist. He basicly said on national T.V. that the organization is a cult, bent on world domination!!!

This was just right now Live on CNN. They also stated that cropcircles are believed to be the means by which, the re-incarnation of ex members communicate with the World! LMAO

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Clandestino]

Clandestino?

Do you have a link or anything, Had a look on CNN, could not find any articles on this, a link provided to the article would be appreciated thanxs in advance.....

My personal stance is that all religions start out and go through a cult phase. Eventually when they garner enough attention, have a substantial membership, and become socially acceptable to most of civilized society then the belief is classified as a religion. But this is just for organized religions.

Clandestino?Do you have a link or anything, Had a look on CNN, could not find any articles on this, a link provided to the article would be appreciated thanxs in advance.....

Spencerjohnstone, sorry i have no link to accompany the comment. I just happened to switch to CNN last night and Anderson Cooper was doing this interview live.

Maybe someone u know has TIVO, and u can watch it thet way... i sure as hell dont..



[edit on 15-5-2007 by Clandestino]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
Let it rip.
What else do you want to know ???

ah, dont bail - they have an ignore button for a reason

anyways, I would like to know why you decided to leave the Church of Scientology, and why you joined in the first place.

I still don't see the point of religion.

By the way, i've never heard of any mention of god by scientologists?
Do they believe in a creator at all?
Or is it just like a super big self help program. Mutated into religion.

Another thing - They openly admit believing in thetans right?
Then they must also believe in Xenu. Because without Xenu, the whole thetan story falls apart.
In the BBC interview, they all denied believing in Xenu.