Is Scientology A Religion or a Secret Cuilt/Society

Originally posted by brotherforchrist
Do you think that it is ethical to try to get people to spill their innermost fears,regrets,and activities, and then put it in a file about that individual, and use it to destroy their life/friendships/relationships if they choose to leave your religion?

I can only speak from personal experience, but when I chose to leave the Church I had no problem with them trying to use anything in my PC or auditing folders against me. They didn't contact my family, or try to destroy my life, and we parted on good terms.

If anyone has an honest interest about Scientology, and wants to pose a question, I'll do my best to answer it as best I can.

Originally posted by Cug

Sounds like a different word for heretic. Many of the big religions have done or still do the same. Should we label them a cult or evil? I once worked for a very small family run company that hired primarily from their church, somehow the word got around that I was an "evil" occultist and they did everything in their power to make it an uncomfortable workplace. notes on my car, "clerical" errors causing the loss of pay, and on and on. Should all evangelical Christians be labeled because of the actions of these people?

----People who act in that manner clearly don't know Christ that well, I don't think Jesus walked around oppressing people and causing misery.I feel that what you underwent was most likely actionable, and you should have entered litigation.

. There have been several deaths as a result of scientology, Most notably Lisa McPherson.

Is it the result of Scientology, or that of some followers? How wide is the brush you are painting them with? If the parents of a ill child refuses medical treatment on the grounds that God will take care of things and the child later dies, shall we blame all Christians? or shall we blame the whole of Islam for the actions of a few terrorists?

--- Yes the death of her was caused due to application of "tech" where they locked her in a room and had her listen to audio cassettes over and over with no food.If the Child dies, I believe that the parents should face a repercussion legally, belief in a higher being is wonderful, however you also should reasonably believe that God imparted medical knowledge to us for it to be used.

They run a lot of Clearwater Fl ;

and the Mormons control a lot of salt lake city, and other christians control the rest of the US.

- I would beg to differ on that, but you are in the deep south so they may down there. Where I am at people generally have no use for religion, belief in any higher power,and don't ponder much of life's great mysteries or questions.

People may think that they are getting help from scientology but in all truth they have thought/mind control techniques used on them, a large amount of them sign 1 billion year service contracts to the church,

Do you not devote your life/afterlife to Christ? is a billion years too long for your commitment?

I didn't devote my life/afterlife to usury and to being forced to work for no payment for a church.

Scientology bilks people out of money and destroys lives.

Peter popoff, Jim Bakker, etc.. again shall we stop Christians before this gets out of hand?

-I don't remember Christianity being set up as a business, and one having to pay 200,000 to learn about it. Or teaching its adherents that psychologists are evil.

You can find out a lot about the church on www.xenu.net...

Well you can find out one side of the story there.. I don't think you would like freemasonrywatch.org to be someones only source of Masonic info.


I'll admit to be slightly touchy on the subject, as there are plenty of people who would be happy to label my religion as an evil cult and work to outlaw it.

It doesn't bother me that you have chosen to follow the writings of Crowley, or if you are a member of the OTO, or whatever, here is the issue, what would you think if to become more initiated in the OTO cost you large sums of money chunks of 10,20,or 30,000 dollars and that if you left they attempted to destroy your life. If there were legitimate claims of this happening time and again, wouldn't you start to wonder about the ethics of your church?

Here is a price sheet

www.xenu.net...

Originally posted by brotherforchrist
what would you think if to become more initiated in the OTO cost you large sums of money chunks of 10,20,or 30,000 dollars

It does. well not in a chunk of 30,000

and that if you left they attempted to destroy your life. If there were legitimate claims of this happening time and again, wouldn't you start to wonder about the ethics of your church?

But where are these claims? anxietydisorder here seems to be an ex member yet experienced no such thing. So what we have here is a first person account vrs some anti-sites. As a Mason I'm sure you know about anti sites and the percentage of truth located on them.

I have no faith or allegience to any religion. Religion from the latin [religare- to bind, to restrict], great things for the human spirit and freewill. Scientology is so sheepishly transparent it's pathetic. They recruit celebrities to foster more shallow followers. Cruise, Travolta were recruited in and promised lengthy careers for their advocacy. Cruise having come out in their folder profile is now on the hook eternally.

Theres times for subjective on the fence opinions, and theres times for criticism.

Look at the evidence logically, and you're going to criticise Scientology. Simple as that.

Originally posted by T0by

Look at the evidence logically, and you're going to criticise Scientology. Simple as that.

Let's look at the evidence logically then.
Post your personal experience with the Church Of Scientology, and tell me about what they have done to harm you. I'm more than willing to enter into a discussion about any problems you've had with the Church.

I'm betting no one posting in this thread has ever even been inside a Scientology Church.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
I have no faith or allegience to any religion. Religion from the latin [religare- to bind, to restrict],

I'm not sure that is accurate. religare is "to bind" but I think the word religion is from "religeo" which in my Cassell's latin dictionary is "of persons, scrupulous, conscientious exactness; esp. religious scruple, awe, superstition, strict observance; in gen., moral scrupples, conscientiousness; of gods, etc., sanctity; an object of worship, holy thing or place."

But I'm no expert on derivations in language, I just know some latin.

Vas

I just cant get my arms around Scientology being viewed as a legitimate religion. Granted my only experiecnes with it being through Southpark making fun of it, something just doesnt add up

My take is that, how can Scientology be a a religion when it was founded by some dude that liked to write Sci Fi books? Now there is all this elaborate mumbo jumbo going on with your Thetan levels, and having to pay more and more to find out the deeper "secrets". And whats the deal with the rich Holly wood elite being so into it? Are they getting kickbacks or something?

So with that said, does that mean that if I write really sweet sci-fi books, that I can just create my own religion one day and have a bunch of people pay me after they get brainwashed?

Sorry, I guess thats a non-scientologist view of scientology.

If anyone has an honest interest about Scientology, and wants to pose a question, I'll do my best to answer it as best I can.

I thought I had posted an honest question on openin this thread,but obviously you do not think my interest in genuine..... If that is the case then ask a mod To close the thread.

I will take my question elsewhere.............

Originally posted by Don Wahn

My take is that, how can Scientology be a a religion when it was founded by some dude that liked to write Sci Fi books?

If a carpenter can start one why not an author?

Is there some big list of "proper" careers one should follow if you feel you have potential to start a religion?

Scientology is evil. My family has experienced severe and illegal persecution from church members. There is a long and well documented history of illegal harassment perpetrated by church members. Breaking and entering, theft, trespassing, stalking, this is the behavior of church members who disagree with your right to form your own opinion. L. Ron himself told members to go on the attack whenever the church was criticized.

Personally I find it funny that anyone would join a church which believes that Alien ghosts are the cause of all of your personal problems. ROFL. Only a third rate Science Fiction author could come up with BS like that. Only a hack like Tom Cruse would fall for it and become brain washed by such an obvious cult.

Cult... Yes, it is a Cult. It relies on classic brainwashing techniques to control its members. And for those who would question my understanding of the church, Yes I have been inside a Scientology "center" as I wont call it a church, and I have first hand experience with their methods and madness.

Originally posted by Don Wahn

So with that said, does that mean that if I write really sweet sci-fi books, that I can just create my own religion one day and have a bunch of people pay me after they get brainwashed?

I would hope that you would never brainwash anyone, but if you choose to become an author of sweet sci-fi books, and then go on to create your own religion, more power to you.
Freedom of religion for all mankind.......

Is there anyone here that wants to dump on a Borneo tribesman for believing that the spirit that guards the forest is a God. Maybe someone needs to go in there and straiten this guy out. This is obviously a deluded bushman that should be forced to convert to the one true God. :shk:


I was Baptized an Anglican, and went to Sunday School at times, and my Grandmother took me to services as often as she could. I even went to the Anglican summer camp and endured their indoctrination.
(actually I had a great time)


My father converted to Catholicism when I was about 12 years old, and I went through years of being programed by Priests interpreting their view on what the Bible is trying to say. On retreats at Kakawis we would go to church 3 times a day for the entire summer.
The Catholics can be pretty intense.


For the short period I spent with the Hare Krishna, I thought they were interesting, but a bit strange.
But if that's what they want to do, that's their business.


I've spent a great deal of my life exposed to religion, and from personal experience, the Church Of Scientology is no more of a cult than any of the others that I've explored.

Tribal spirituality in Borneo took it's form over many many generations. Animism is common among tribal cultures around the globe.

Scientology was created by one man after he made a bet. It wasn't even a religion at first, but a way to gain money by selling self help courses. L. Ron was in a lot of tax trouble and then hit upon the idea of claiming his idea to be a religion to avoid the taxes. He owed taxes for a number of things and not just his cult activity. He spent much of his final years dodging taxes and not only those related to his new "church"

It is a cult because it was made up by one individual who had the express desire to hoodwink the public. He created the concept with this in mind and there is documented evidence of that fact. It was based on science fiction tales and the idea grew from a bet ant not from any spirituality of the creator. Alien Ghosts uh huh OK now that's a religion.

Originally posted by Terapin
Personally I find it funny that anyone would join a church which believes that Alien ghosts are the cause of all of your personal problems. ROFL.

Do you know for a fact that they take this literally?

Think about it the man who started it was an author.. One of the standard tools of an author is to use their fiction to put focus on something society is/does/whatever in an indirect manner.

Is it not likely LRH did the same thing when coming up the the background mythos of Scientology?

What do you think of this idea anxietydisorder?

Originally posted by Terapin
Alien Ghosts uh huh OK now that's a religion.

Is it any worse than undead zombie gods?

[edit on 5/14/2007 by Cug]

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

If anyone has an honest interest about Scientology, and wants to pose a question, I'll do my best to answer it as best I can.

I thought I had posted an honest question on openin this thread,but obviously you do not think my interest in genuine..... If that is the case then ask a mod To close the thread.

I will take my question elsewhere.............

You did post an honest question, and I've attempted to provide my views in the best way I can.
I may not have quoted you directly, but this thread has brought up a lot of issues from previous threads that have never been resolved.


I think I answered the original post, and I'm not sure why you're offended.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder

Originally posted by Don Wahn

So with that said, does that mean that if I write really sweet sci-fi books, that I can just create my own religion one day and have a bunch of people pay me after they get brainwashed?

I would hope that you would never brainwash anyone, but if you choose to become an author of sweet sci-fi books, and then go on to create your own religion, more power to you.
Freedom of religion for all mankind.......

Wrong thinking breeds wrong actions, and that's all I care about.
Religious beliefs affect the very core of your thinking, what you do, say, think, feel, how you react to certain situations.
If someone is going to base their views of reality upon a science fiction writer, you are going to be so limited in what you can learn and what you can achieve in regards to the truth.
I feel the same about almost all religion. But especially so for scientology, a most obviously flawed belief system.

If i were going to follow any religion, it would have to be perfect, as god is perfect, correct? God being perfect is not an assumption, I can see it all around me in the ways everything is constructed, the way it moves in cycles, atoms, the wonders of physics and so forth.

Charging these amounts of money is contradictory to the expression of these things.
And so are many of the other things Scientologists have done.
If scientologists themselves are doing these things, I take that as a sign the belief system is flawed.
On the Christian/Catholic sides of things, Sin, Guilt, Punishment, Attonement, etc are not expressions of the truth around us.

And so these wrong ways of thinking breed wrong actions.
That's my problem with religion.

If you are seeking something or someone else, or some organisation to bring you enlightenment.....you may have a bumpy ride, you may have a smooth ride. They might be playing nice music in the car.
But you're going to be driven around in circles.
If you want to get to where you want to go you have to get out of that car and walk there yourself.

At least other religions have nice cars.
Scientology is just a rusty old piece of junk, with a few doors missing.

Tithing

A tithe (from Old English teogoþa "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a (usually) voluntary contribution or as a tax or levy, usually to support a Jewish or Christian religious organization. Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, cheques, or stocks, whereas historically tithes could be paid in kind, such as agricultural products. Several European countries operate a formal process linked to the tax system allowing some churches to assess tithes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Every Church needs money to survive, and that money comes from the participants of the religion.

I've come to the conclusion that no one on ATS is actually interested in the truth about Scientology, they're only interested in the dirt and scandal.

I spent time on staff at an Org. in Canada, and then joined the Sea Org. in Los Angeles as part of the Religious Freedom Crusade. I worked at Celebrity Center for almost two years, and spent time at the Fort Harrison. I'm probably the most knowledgeable person about the inner workings of Scientology that posts here on ATS, but people don't want to hear anything good about this organization, and are unwilling to even do basic research other than reading Operation Clambake.

Most of what you read on these boards is just the same old crap that keeps getting regurgitated over and over again. You may as well go back and read some of the older threads, because it's all been said before.

Nope this was your response when you first posted your comments on here, if I was not interested, I would not have opened up the thread in the first place, I also posted,I would like to see other members thoughts comments about this religion or cult.. And as I said before, I never had heardof this religion up until I read the article on the bbc news site... That is what got me interested in finding out more... about it...

The thing that gets me is that there IS documented proof of the Church of Scientology's leaders being involved in illegal activities, Hubbard's wife did jail time for breaking into I believe it was IRS offices, not sure on the federal branch, but I know for a FACT she did time, and Hubbard spent so much time on that ship because being in international waters kept him out of jurisdictions legally. There were many countries he was banned from. I am not saying that you or anyone else does not have the right to believe what he or she wants and worship diety in the manner that they see fit. If you want to believe in alien ghosts, Jesus, Buddah, Allah, Vishnu, Diana, Set, that you are god, that a tree is god, that god is an energy force, whatever, it does not affect me in the least, and I have no right to impose my views theologically on you.

However, I can't withhold information on something that could potentially cost a curious person every penny that they own (Yes it has happened on more than one occasion), and harm them.

I have NOTHING against individual scientologists, but I feel that the church grossly misrespresents itself, and milks people for all that they have.