America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

Originally posted by Vipassana
How can you say the deaths in the Iran-Iraq war were the responsibility of the US. Just because the US had a hand in weaponizing Iraq does not mean America is directly responsible for all the deaths in that particular war.

CIA is responsible for Hussein getting into power in the first place.

CIA is responsible for overthrowing Iran in 1953, to control the oil bar none, and the 1979 Iranain Revolution was the fallout of them retaking their government from US.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Then, one year later, there's the US's thug attacking Iran. Go figure. Regardless of if the US helped persuade Hussein to attack Iran, the CIA's imperialists actions altered the space-time-continum to cause those events.

(pet peeve rant)

To anyone stating that the USA saved the world in WW2, please, please, please, go do some research. The role of russia, in WW2. The role of the UK in WW2. The role of france in WW2..

Interesting facts. Taken from here - www.euronet.nl...

Population in 1939

UK 47.961.000
France 41.600.000
USSR 190.000.000
USA 132.122.000
Germany (including Austria) 76.008.000
Italy 44.223.000
Japan 71.400.000

Note, the US has almost three times as many people in 1939 as the US does.

Now, according to the BBC here - www.bbc.net.uk...

1939

* Hitler invades Poland on 1 September. Britain and France declare war on Germany two days later.

Two days.

Now, the US, obviously is biding their time on that whole saving the world thing.. They don't want to do it too early..

So they wait until Pearl harbor is attacked over TWO YEARS later to enter the war..

My biggest pet peeve as a Brit living in the US is the number of times I've had to hear "We saved your asses/the world in WW2!"..

It shows a remarkable ignorance of the major details of the war, including the fact that the war for the US started after everyone else had already been throwing resources and lives away for two years.. almost like, if you had a cross country race, and had two runners going for 6 miles.. but one of those swapped out for a fresh runner after the first two, that that was somehow not a factor in the outcome of the race. Not to mention the Russians and their massive role in keeping Hitler penned up..

It was an allied victory. Unlike most of the Americans I talk to, the war to them wasn't an immediate thing - whereas to me, and my family, both my grandparents, and all four of my mom's brothers fought in WW2.. My mom herself remembers bombs dropping as a toddler.. It was NOT an "American" victory. America did not save the world. They helped win a war, but so did millions of NON-americans.

According Answers.com here - wiki.answers.com...

Deaths in ww2
United States 292,000 soldiers
Great Britain lost 264,000 soldiers and 60,000 civilians in bombing raids.
France lost 200,000 soldiers and 400,000 civilians.
The Soviet Union lost the most with 25 million deaths, but only about a third were combat related.

What's that? The ally that 'won the war' lost only 28,000 more soldiers than the tiny little country with a third of it's population?..

Yeah. I could go on, but then I'd just be ranting...

My argument is simple....ITS NOT TRUE!!!! Again, have we killed people as a country? Of course we have and will continue to until the end of time! And drive us like cattle, then join the herd dude..your just as guilty as any of us then. It amazes me how people like you can badmouth us so called "cattle" yet sit and live under the same government and (back to my rights argument) use the rights us cattle have given you. The difference between people like you and me ignorance is we understand the reality of this world. NONE of us would be here, having the rights and opportunity to be and do what we want if those killings didn't occur. So keep thinking the freedom and rights you have could be available if we as a country DIDN'T do some of the things we did.

as far as WWII believe what you want and research all you like about the US influence/involvement. Take the USA out of WWII and I don't care what any book says...the outcome of that war and this world...definitly NOT what your used to!

What's not true?

Where are your links to show otherwise?

its not about links ignorance (which if coming from WIKI aren't always accurate), its about common sence. your tying us to deaths in wars we weren't even involved in. I don't care if those countries got their weapons from us...WE DIDN'T PULL THE TRIGGER which = NOT A US KILL! I mean IF we were to think about things your way...EVERY non natural death on earth would be due to the US. We give money, aid, weapons, etc etc to soooooo many countries and armies etc...so ok i'll give you this one..the USA is just one gigantic murder machine...which as you know is WELL OILED and working really well. I guess you better step infront of it and make sure it gets stopped!

"We" (our leaders don't actually represent US (you and I) btw) set the stage; altered time; influenced those outcomes; supported; directly carried out; etc all of those ordeals.

Feel free to try to debate me on some actual points instead of dismiss the entire list.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
What's not true?

Where are your links to show otherwise?

We can take your very first link and dispute those numbers.

"Native Americans: approx 10 million"

Approx 10 million? Where do you get that number? The article you link does not say anything of the sort. The vast majority of Native Americans died from diseases brought from Europeans and not from fighting. No one to this day knows how many Native Americans were on the continent when the Europeans started arriving.

What is the point in posting this. Oh boo hoo, but its not helping anything. You think the governments going to read your post on abovetopsecret.com and be like...hmm we're bad people, we should change our role in the world. No they're not. In fact you're hard research and insightful conclusions do nothing but make people say wow America killed 27,000,000 people. I as an american am SO INCREDIBLY SORRY that we completely ruined this planet and are a bane on the existence of the population as a whole. Now, since americans are killers, I'm going to go proceed on a conquest killing babies and innocent asians. Thank you for opening my eyes.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"We" (our leaders don't actually represent US (you and I) btw)

OK that is one thing I WILL agree with. Our leaders haven't truly represented WE THE PEOPLE in many many years. We elect them to be our voice and make sure things are done to OUR standard, yet it is getting to the point where the constitution will no longer start with WE THE PEOPLE, it will soon say WE THE GOVERNMENT...now THATS scary

Originally posted by zerotime
Approx 10 million? Where do you get that number? The article you link does not say anything of the sort. The vast majority of Native Americans died from diseases brought from Europeans and not from fighting. No one to this day knows how many Native Americans were on the continent when the Europeans started arriving.

IIB said:
So were they not the result of US expansion (imperialism)?

Do we need to get into how there are known cases of "US" giving them small pox infected blankets?

Estimates of how many people were living in the Americas when Columbus arrived have varied tremendously; 20th century scholarly estimates ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons. Given the fragmentary nature of the evidence, precise pre-Columbian population figures are impossible to obtain, and estimates are often produced by extrapolation from comparatively small bits of data.

I said Low Ball.

Here: take them off completely:
That makes 17,000,000++

See a difference? First I have to ask if you can completely comprehend the ramifications of millions dying with jus tmoments of thought. Psychology seems to say no:

Three groups of subjects considered three versions of the above question, asking them how high a tax increase they would accept to save 2,000, 20,000, or 200,000 birds. The response - known as Stated Willingness-To-Pay, or SWTP - had a mean of $80 for the 2,000-bird group, $78 for 20,000 birds, and $88 for 200,000 birds.
www.singinst.org...

[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Only 27,000,000? Im sure we can top that!

Originally posted by truttseeker
What is the point in posting this.

If we can't acknowledge basic truths about "ourselves" then we can't properly interpret much of anything. Core truths like these set the foundation for all of reality to be based on lies. Reality is a subjective experience / phenomena.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by truttseeker
What is the point in posting this.

If we can't acknowledge basic truths about "ourselves" then we can't properly interpret much of anything. Core truths like these set the foundation for all of reality to be based on lies. Reality is a subjective experience / phenomena.

Maybe your next post could be how many lives the african government(s) have taken.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I said Low Ball.

Here: take them off completely:
That makes 17,000,000++

You should take most of them off. Counting Native Americans that were killed by the British, French, Spanish, Russians, Portageas and each other in the time of Columbus would be incorrect. There was no America. By the time the American government started to push the Native American Indians around there weren't any left. They did not have a good defense against diseases that were unknown to them. I am not saying that what happened to the American Indians was a good thing because it was horrible. But trying to blame all their deaths from the time of Christopher Columbus on the USA when the USA wouldn't even be formed for another 300 years is silly.


[edit on 13-5-2007 by zerotime]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by truttseeker
What is the point in posting this.

If we can't acknowledge basic truths about "ourselves" then we can't properly interpret much of anything. Core truths like these set the foundation for all of reality to be based on lies. Reality is a subjective experience / phenomena.

Just curious, but when you were doing this chart did the thought ever occur to you to list all of the good things that have come out of the USA? Or was that not going to fit the agenda?

No way we saved millions.

And after WWII we are not responsible due to the criminal government.
Hold on, things might turn around.

I heard this ad for a WaMu credit card and thought that knowing
who was on the grassy knoll and landed on the Moon were important.

A government that lies is bound to kill something.
No pain, no gain. Except they pain everyone else.

Courage, a profile that cause its not around.
We aren't the ones than need it. We just see the conspiracy.

From the Pool at Bethesda:
Pick up your mat and walk! You are now well.
But don't sin anymore or something worse might happen to you. - Jesus

UFO spies on the Vatican

How many death caused by the UFO, indirectly of course, by the
criminals that secret them.

Okay. Lets take number 2 on your list.

"Philippines: approx 1 million"

You could be correct but that number is the highest estimate.

Philippine military deaths are estimated at 20,000 with 16,000 actually counted, while civilian deaths numbered between 250,000 and 1,000,000 Filipinos.

The Philippine-American War Centennial Initiative gives an estimate of 510,000 civilian deaths, and 20,000 military deaths, excluding 100,000 deaths from the Moro Rebellion. en.wikipedia.org...

So far, after examining your first two points they both turned out to be incorrect or very high exaggerations.

I am sure I could continue down the list but honestly I am bored with the topic now. I think most readers will be able to figure out where they post is going.

All imperialist countries in the 20th century could be held responsible in some way or another for the deaths of millions of people. The numbers are debatable, but throwing out a 27,000,000 using loose and controversial sources is kind of ridiculous.

sure we should be able to realize it. But all youre going to do is fuel people being like ohh come on. No one cares that we killed 27 million. But if we want to get into figures does someone want to dredge up a number of humanitarian aid that we've given away.