Dept. of Homeland Security: "You'll get a National ID and you'll Like it"

Originally posted by DYepes
Right.....

aight guys you go right ahead and continue complaining about small stuff, I am going to just keep living my life, because this really changes nothing at all.

What you say is small stuff is actually huge. These steps are the final nails in our coffin of freedom. I guess your expeience has jaded you, or you feel that it is acceptable for our goverment to monitor and control our daily life. I do not like being told when and where I can go, I do not like being told what to do and what to think, I do not like it period. I do not want to be some prisoner with a number only allowed to shower ever 72 hours. Give me freedoom or give me death. Life without freedom is not worth living. Look at all the leaders on your profile. Do you think the gave in to goverments efforts to supress their desire for freedom and equal rights.

Jason

When this goes into effect, citizens will be unable to obtain employment if they do not have this card.

Is there any way around this at all?

Fact that a related bill is numbered 666 is quite concerning.

Can we get a couple of misconceptions straight here, I know you all are surely Juris Doctors but let me tell you this, and whether you believe it or not does not dispute that it is FACT:

1. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY #.

2. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAEV A DRIVERS LICENSE TO DRIVE.

Now that we got those two issues out of the way, this used to be a free nation and that freedom included MOVEMENT anywhere and anyhow and anytime you wanted without governmetn interference unless and until you harmed someones property and or person. Riddle me this, why should they know where I am going and why and how, its quite frankly NONE OF THEIR GOD DAMNED BUSINESS!!

I do not carry a Drivers License so I do not think I have to comment on my future of any NID. And secondly this is a setup for Bio-Chipping everyone of you, NID Cards can be lost or stolen why don't we just stick it IN YOU!!!

I am sorry I did not get back to this sooner, I have been too busy lately to do much posting.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I generally skip right over posts that deal with religion; not my cup of tea, thank you. But I was surprised to find that a set of beliefs actually encompassed geographical limits in it's core, that's all.

It does not exactly encompass a geographical region, what it says is:

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Bolds obviously added by me to point out where the idea, that it has to be a world wide system, comes from. In case you did not realize it, this is also where the whole concept of the “New World Order” comes from as well.

Now, if this is the correct interpretation is open to some debate. To me personally, when prophecy talks about the proceeding empires, none of them were truly “World” encompassing either. When the bible talks about Noah’s flood, it also mentions that it “covered the whole world”, yet we are finding that it may actually mean the whole “known world” of the time. To john, who wrote revelations, the whole world most likely meant part of Europe, part of Africa, part of Russia, the whole Middle East, and part India. For writers of their time, who did not have access to aircraft or satellite imagery, this was the “whole world”.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm not sure if the holding back of federal funding is what seems to be heavy-handed to you, or if it is something else. But holding back funding is a very commonplace tactic used by the feds to get the states to comply with something. Speed limits, for example. So, it should cause no alarm in this case

When you consider that the original founders of the country never intended for the federal government to hold enough power to ever supersede State Law with Federal Law, then yes it’s wrong. If you look at history, I believe that the first time this was done, was by President Lincoln during the Civil War. The reason that many of the Southerners went to war was not over the issue of Slavery, but over the Federal Government enacting a Law overpowering State Laws. Many, if not most, of the folks in the south did not even own slaves themselves, so it would have been stupid for them to go die fighting for something which did not even apply to them.

Originally posted by jsobecky
You're almost implying that you will need a National Driver's License to do business with the feds. That is untrue. Other federally-accepted documentation will have to suffice, because not everyone will want or be able to have a driver's license.

If you do not carry a Real ID compliant Drivers License, then you have to carry a Real ID compliant ID card. According to everything I have read, that exact wording has been used in relationship to this, that anyone or any state refusing the ID becomes “Nonexistent to the Federal Government”. If you do not have this form of ID by 2011 (I believe that is the right date), then you will be unable to do any of the things I listed above. Again this is not all contained in the exact text of the Real ID Act, but it is in several different Acts.

Originally posted by DYepes
Airplanes are not public transportation, they are privately owned transportation mediums.

I am an ex-airline employee, so you're preaching to the choir on this one, besides being partly incorrect. While an airline is an individual company, and has the right to deny service to anyone it deems to, the airport itself is not. In most instances the Airport is owned and maintained by the County it is located in, thus making it government property and the terminals public accessible property. After all who do you think pays to maintain that area? Your tax dollars do. The ATC areas, the ramp areas, the taxiways, and runways, are considered Federally owned.

If you go over to TIA, and look at the vehicles there you’ll notice that many are marked HCAA, and others FAA. This is because some are Hillsborough County, and some are Federal Government, the Airport Police are also all Federal Police Officers.

Originally posted by DYepes
City transit is public transportation, and I have never rode a bus that required identification to ride, unless I wanted to load my bike on the front

I agree that in this city, you do not have to show ID yet, but that does not mean it will stay this way:

DENVER -- Federal prosecutors have decided against filing misdemeanor charges against a woman who refused to show identification when a bus she was riding in entered federal property.
Deborah Davis, 50, of Arvada, Colo., was taken off a Regional Transportation District bus, handcuffed and issued two petty offense tickets on Sept. 26 at the Denver Federal Center, a sprawling campus of federal offices in Lakewood, Colo.

Really all they have to do is declare that our road system is federal property, which they really are anyway, and they will be able to require ID for you to ride on them. You cannot just look at what is going on in the lettering of that exact law, you also have to look at other laws, and the trends which are happening in this country today.

Originally posted by DYepes
For you see when you start accusing the government and this and that, that’s who you are accusing. The man who issues you your license, delivers your mail, or handles your accounting at the IRS. They are the government, and they do not care about tracking you down or what you do in your personal life, so long as it does not involve denying the rights of others.

Not exactly correct, to the individual government employee, this is simply a convenience item to them. It is something that makes their job easier, and that is all it is to them at the moment. Most of your government employees are consummate rule followers on the whole, and to them this is just another rule that will make less work for them. As I mentioned above, the DMV folks want it because it will make it easier for them to deal with issuing licenses to aliens, for the police, they can track exact things to make investigations easier. In Florida, we already have a Machine Readable Data-Block and Magnetic Stripe, on our ID cards. Realize it or not, that Data-Block contains your driving record, and supposedly your pawn hits. This is what I mean by making it easier for the police to track things with these type of ID’s. It will be even easier when they can track down your location to so many yards of the last time you passed an RFID reader. I have already, personally seen them track a person, to within 1000 feet of where they were hiding, using that mans cell phone.

Originally posted by DYepes
When you say government is after us, you are disrespecting the men and woman who make up the workforce that keep our society running smooth. It is not the government you have beef with, it is your elected leaders, the ones you actually have the ability to do something about.

My elected leaders stopped voting the conscience of their constituents a long time ago. Now it’s all about voting for whatever lobbyist, or corporation is paying them, or their family members the most. Maybe you’re not up on the new trick that they pull now to buy votes, so let me let you in on it. As they can no longer give funds directly to the representatives, the big trick now is to give things to their family members. One of the biggest things they do now is hire a family member to a very high paying job, where they don’t have to do anything, and get all kind of fringe benefits. Of course there is nothing to keep that family member from giving gifts back to the representative.

Also it’s not the government I have a beef with per say, I am simply stating that this goes against my core beliefs on what I consider to be the “Mark”. I don't understand how you can have a crucifix as your avatar, and not kind of see where I am coming from. As a Christian we are to submit to our government as long as it does not directly conflict with the Laws of God, and unfortunately this law is a conflict in my understanding of eschatology.

Originally posted by DYepes
And frankly, your Fingerprints were collected by your local health department when you were born, thus being readily accessible by the Federal government if they choose so.

I believe that they collect your foot prints at birth, at least they did when I was born, I do not think they took my finger prints as well. If they have them on record, in a usable format, then why do they run events offering to finger print children? Why did I have to be fingerprinted when I went to work at the airlines for customs clearance?

Originally posted by DYepes
The "FEDS" have had my DNA on file for five years, and I have not been harassed, monitored or tracked.

You can bet that if a crime happens in your area, and the DNA comes close to a match with yours, that you will be harassed and brought in for questioning. I am sorry if you don’t understand this because you have had to submit to these things already, but for someone that has not committed a crime, the government has no need to have information on my DNA, Fingerprints, and/or retina scan. If I submit to these things and some crime happens and my info comes up as a possible match, then even though I am innocent, I can similarly be hulled in, arrested, and questioned.

Originally posted by DYepes
If you want to make a difference, pay your credit cards off within a year, save up alot of money, and get involved in the political system. Create a local lobby group, and even try to get your closest associates to participate as well. Your fears have arisen out of your lack of participation in the system. Voting for your leaders does not cut it. You have to become a leader yourself. Because if you do not lead, then you follow. And if you follow, then you should not complain, because you make your decisions based on what others request or demand of you.

I can agree with this to a point. The problem is that, as I said above, the majority of folks in office are not voting their constituents minds, and there is a reason for this besides what I mentioned above. You also have to understand that corporations hold a sort of blackmail power over politicians at the local and state level. That power is the power of location. If the representative always votes for the constituents, then the corporations in that area leave, and with them the jobs. So even if a representative does what the people want, they end up hating him anyway, as they end up with a high unemployment level. It’s a very fine line to walk being a politician.

Originally posted by DYepes
The state clearly has the options, but is not required to have this bio-metric data in their new systems. Your Drivers license will still say State of Florida.

Yes, you are correct, but it’s what is under the surface that concerns me. This Real ID is simply a way of installing the National ID without it actually saying “National ID” on the surface.

Originally posted by DYepes
And hey, since you say you live close to Tampa, I say we get together for a good chat, you sound like a friend I could conversate with about intelligent stuff considering all my old buddies were junkies, drug dealers and thieves.

Sure thing, it’s always nice to have someone to talk with about these kinds of things, send me a U2U.

[edit on 5/27/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
If I am not mistaken some states have already made there ID's and DL's Patriot Act Compilant. In Florida we have a new DL/ID and it contains all the information required by the Patriot act.

No, actually it does not yet comply with the Patriot Act or the Real ID Act. We have already had Magnetic Strips on our drivers license, in Florida, for as long as I have been here. Now we have a Data-Block also, on the back of our licenses. I have spoken to several different folks about this, before I agreed to get one of these, even back then I was Leary of that Data-Block and what it contained. Supposedly the block only contains our Driving Record, and supposedly Pawn Hits. Florida also keeps your photo on record in a digital format on the State DMV Database. In my estimation it’s not something to fear until it is compliant with the Federal Database, and it contains Bio-Metric data, especially if it is RFID readable. That is the next step, being taken with the Real ID Act, though.

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
but I was in Law Enforcement in Florida and we never had trouble finding the next of kin. I see it as another way to find you or the ones related to you.

Yes, this is relationship tracking, it is one of the next steps, and it is something that can be done strictly in the database without your knowledge. It’s a big upcoming thing in law enforcement, and Casinos already use it to ensure that their dealers do not let friends, family, or other people win at their tables. The idea is to start tracking who you have any relationship with, not only your family, but also your friends, neighbors, and so on; this allows law enforcement to know when someone might have had inside help when committing a crime or fraud. They can do this simply by running a search on where you frequent, when you go there, who your blood relationships are, who you work with, who you went to school with, who you live near, and so on. It’s actually pretty simple to do this on a database if you have all the pertinent information. Also you can bet that the corporations out there are going to be lobbying for access to this type of information so they can do targeted marketing.

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
I do have a question, what frequency does the chip give off? Maybe it can be scanned to see if it is in place now.

You would have to buy an RFID reader to scan it, you can get one online. I have actually considered getting one to start seeing what products already have them in place. I know that Gillette already puts them in its razors, so I buy any other brand now, so as to not support this activity. Spychips.com has data on the companies currently putting RFID into their products, and customer cards. They frequently hold rallies, and lobby against this type of tracking. Katherine Albrecht is probably the biggest champion of the Anti-RFID cause, and you can hear her on C2C from time to time.

Katherine is widely recognized as one of the world's leading experts on consumer privacy. She regularly speaks on the consumer privacy and civil liberties impacts of new technologies, with an emphasis on RFID and retail issues. She has testified on RFID technology before the Federal Trade Commission, state legislatures, the European Commission, and the Federal Reserve Bank, and she has given over a thousand television, radio and print interviews to news outlets all over the world. Her efforts have been featured on CNN, NPR, the CBS Evening News, Business Week, and the London Times, to name just a few.

For those of you who don’t realize exactly how far this RFID thing has gone so far, I suggest reading through that site, it will be quite an eye opener for you.


[edit on 5/27/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
2. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAEV A DRIVERS LICENSE TO DRIVE.

Could you please provide some sort of reference to support this "fact"? A specific statute would be nice. To my knowledge every state requires that any person operating a motor vehicle on public roadways must have a current drivers license on their person or be subject to citation and possibly arrest.

There are over 200 Court Cases from every state and the federal Supreme Court. The roads as the one above says are NOT FEDERALLY OWNED. See the federal govt can own nothing, the people own them. Did the federal government geta job and start paying taxes nto itself in order to pay for "IT'S" roads? Slight of hand by some deft lawyes is all that nonsense is. I have a 29 page filing I use when defending a driving without a lcense charge. I have never lost, every case has been dismissed with prejudice.

www.the-independent-journal.com...

If you would like to see a state that don't as many don't and in FACT can not, look at Article 6 of the Colroado Constitution. It says the Right to use the roads withou licensure is INVIOLATE.

Several states have already banned the federal National ID and have informed the federal govt they will not be participating. Here is the kicker to this one, they allowed the feds to place federal buildings and what not throughout their state. Should the fed say that state citizens, or state nationals couldn't use those facilities the easiest and most probable remedy would be to remove the feds from the state.

The poster above had a lot of good information, but also some that aint so sound in my opinion so be careful. The part about Lincoln being the first to steal states Rights and the Rights of the People was correct. To get int that study would take about 200 pages, JUST ON THE 14th Amendment. For instance did you know that voting ina state election is treason to the US and voting in a US election is treason to your state.

[edit on 5/27/2007 by theindependentjournal]

This Whole Issue Is Being Mis-Directed, Its Not About The Fact That They Want To Keep A Handle On The War On Terrorism At Home, Its About The Fact Of A Total Worldwide Echelon Society. Once Each Country Has Implemented These ID Cards, You Will See All Aspects Of Life Being Associated With Them. Corporations Will Need Them To Keep In Business With The Governments, Consumers Will Need Them To Make Purchases, The Amount Of Data That Will Amount From These, Everyone's Personal Choices Will Be Recorded And Disected By Some Statistical Analyst To Determine How To Better Shove Thier Inferior Products Down Our Throats.

Then And Only Then, When It Has All Become So Mainstream, Will A Full World-Wide Database Emerge "In The Interests Of The Common Man" How Long Will It Be Before We Will Exist Simply As Ones Or Zeroes On That Database, It Will Be Down To The Goverment "Administrators" To Decide Whos Access Gets Revoked. That Is How The Power Will Be Out Of The Hands Of Those Who Wish To Do Something About Our Prediciment.

Join The Revolt, Stop The Collaboration Of Government Data, Full Global Anarchial Civil Disobedience.

KNOWLEDGE: LET IT BE FREE, OR YOU LET IT DIE!!!


Zeltar

Very cool post , I had no idea that someone could possibly do such a thing. I do understand that anything Federal is really owned by the people, but in many cases you’re fighting against such an overwhelming force it does not seem worth it. Also granting rights to everyone to do whatever they wish is not always a good thing. Even though airports are Federally owned I hardly think letting folks walk around in restricted areas is a good idea. I just mentioned your paper here to a law enforcement friend of mine on the phone, and boy, he got upset by it.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
The poster above had a lot of good information, but also some that aint so sound in my opinion so be careful.

Other then the bit about airports, and that they will try and say the roads are federal property, what else did you not agree with in what I wrote?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
There are over 200 Court Cases from every state and the federal Supreme Court. The roads as the one above says are NOT FEDERALLY OWNED. See the federal govt can own nothing, the people own them. Did the federal government geta job and start paying taxes nto itself in order to pay for "IT'S" roads? Slight of hand by some deft lawyes is all that nonsense is. I have a 29 page filing I use when defending a driving without a lcense charge. I have never lost, every case has been dismissed with prejudice.

www.the-independent-journal.com...

If you would like to see a state that don't as many don't and in FACT can not, look at Article 6 of the Colroado Constitution. It says the Right to use the roads withou licensure is INVIOLATE.

This Article 6?

If correct could you clarify where it says what you say?

Could you please provide a court record showing what you claim? If you just have a case number and the county that would be fine.

Just put the card in the microwave for 6 seconds that'll have them busy with replacements and replacements and replacments.?

Originally posted by seridium
Just put the card in the microwave for 6 seconds that'll have them busy with replacements and replacements and replacments.?

At about $20 a pop per replacement you’ll run out of money long before they are going to run out of cards to give you.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by seridium
Just put the card in the microwave for 6 seconds that'll have them busy with replacements and replacements and replacments.?

At about $20 a pop per replacement you’ll run out of money long before they are going to run out of cards to give you.

Me persoanly will never aquire a national ID card, its against my religion.

And if they give me one without asking ill nuke it and never take another, I can live without cash, ive been waiting for the madd maxx days anyways, Cant wait!!

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Can we get a couple of misconceptions straight here, I know you all are surely Juris Doctors but let me tell you this, and whether you believe it or not does not dispute that it is FACT:

1. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY #.

2. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAEV A DRIVERS LICENSE TO DRIVE.

Hello,

Your extensive brief attached to your second post on this page was quite compelling and convinced me that, indeed, I do not require a drivers license to use my car; but, no need for a ss#? How does that work exactly? Do you have a supporting brief that I can present to the court when I am arrested for tax evasion? Just wondering.

You mean . . . other than

Biblically prophesied 2,000 years ago as being part of the satanic global government?

. . . such that every man, woman and child will end up chipped with a computer chip ID bearing their vital stats etc like a dog from birth on?

. . . that refusing the chip ID will result in death/execution?

. . . that accepting the implant will mean worshipping satan as God?

. . . that accepting the implant ID will mean eternal rejection by Almighty God?

. . . that wrong doers will be shot dead on sight--by the average policeman--even for traffic tickets--though there may be grace for ONE parking ticket.

. . . that the result will be that individuals become exceedingly meaningless, cogs in the vast global machine.

. . . that when an individual becomes a "useless eater," he will be terminated.

. . . DID YOU SEE GEORGE LUCAS' MASTER'S THESIS MOVIE: THX 1138?

. . . There is some evidence that the chip ID's will end up causing physiological problems.

. . . Some evidence that some chip ID's will not only be locator/communication hookups but will be effective mind control agents as well.

SLAGGED folks [SLAve tAGGED] . . . fodder for the new holocaust.

No way, by God's help and Grace, will I ever accept a SLAG [SLAve taG].

Those interested in a surefire ticket to hell, do so at their eternal beyond risk.

So question here.

Will National Id contain a microchip? if so please subject the proof other then speculation.

If so woudnt that break privacy laws?

I hear in the USA the corporate police can't even ask a illegal immigrant if he is illegal or even a immigrant without breaking human rights laws?
mybe this is why they are in dire need of some kind of system to filter out all the corporate leeches.

U.S.A is a corporation it's capital gain must be guarded at all costs the national ID would help filter out all illegals in the USA and anywhere else for that matter.

Originally posted by apc
Could someone please lay out a clear outline of why a national ID is a bad thing?

Because the idea is coming from DHS...period.

Oh of course! How silly of me! Thank you for that concise and well thought out reply. Just what I asked for. I was undecided before, but you have totally convinced me. Thank you thank you thank you!

I'm still waiting for a case number theindependentjournal. Any of the many driving without a license cases you claim to have defended and gotten dismissed. Sure hope none of them were drunk drivers who had their licenses revoked, or twelve year olds not old enough to get one... then we'd REALLY be in trouble! So please provide some supporting evidence, otherwise it remains clear to me that citizens do in fact have to have a license to operate a motor vehicle on public roadways... which is a very good thing indeed.

I couldn't tell from Katherine Albrecht's website . . .

but If I remember correctly, she came to this awareness from her knowledge of Bible prophecy and the Mark of The Beast.

And, she is particularly trying to wake Christians up to the realities of the NWO and how much in the Biblical "birth pangs" preliminary stuff we are as prep to the Great Tribulation.

Is this the woman I'm thinking about? I hear her on C2C from time to time.

Her research into the SLAG [SLAve taG], spychip IS extensive. She has documents and plans from within corporations and the NWO cabal itself, as I recall.