Everyone is against the death penalty and I will prove it.

Sorry intrepid, I get a bit angry with these kinds of subjects.

I know not ALL rich men get off, but more often than a poor man. Remember OJ Simpson? Johnny Cochrane is an amazing attorney I might ad.



My point about nature having no death penalties is that they are surviving. There is no social justice in the wild, merely animals trying to eat. We are not trying to eat our fellow humans and therein lies the difference.


We choose to kill each other, animals do it for food.

The Africa story has nothing to do with the US, but humans/society in general.

We are not the most conscious and moral beings in the universe, but we have the ability to do so.

"Hey Earl, I bet you $5 you can't shoot that pigeon with your slingshot!"

"You're on."


[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

I would never vote for a politician that is against the death penalty. I'll always be pro death penalty and that fairytale of a scenario isn't going to do anything. Of course if the investigation is found to have been corrupted afterwards than those who had direct involvement in the corruption of data should also face the death penalty. I'm also pro abortion...I don't know how that fits in either...but I assure you, I'm not the one with the -issues-

this is one of the most over the top threads ive ever seen .
1 for the death penalty

Ok so what is the line that you draw...
1 child 100 it makes no difference.
If thats the logic so lets have a nuclear blast and lets kill the human animal that is everywhere.
How can you accept to kill one innocent man.
I would give my life for a child I don´t know. But would I die because of a mistake?
No way in hell.
I would not kill one innocent man not even if it would save the whole humanity.

Originally posted by laiguana
I would never vote for a politician that is against the death penalty. I'll always be pro death penalty and that fairytale of a scenario isn't going to do anything. Of course if the investigation is found to have been corrupted afterwards than those who had direct involvement in the corruption of data should also face the death penalty. I'm also pro abortion...I don't know how that fits in either...but I assure you, I'm not the one with the -issues-

That doesn't make any sense at all...

So just kill everyone who is wrong?

While we're at it why don't we just put everyone we don't like in camps and make them do work? You know what, why not just kill the people who are undesirable because they are "criminal," "anti-whatever."

Does this remind you of anything?

I'm not the one who thinks I'm an iguana, check your blood bud.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

My position is summed up best by this: "If you support Capital punishment, you support absolute political control in its sickest extreme."

For ages, capital punishment has been used to silence dissedents and oppress populist movement leaders.

Minor drug offenses (possession and such) should be givin a fine and probation (if even that) and the extra space should be used to house violent criminals (especially rapists) for life.

Thing that pisses me off about the whole thing, are devote christians that are in favor of the death penalty... (IE BUSH, etc)

You can spit off any amount of scripture supporting your "pro-death penalty in the name of Christ" thinking, but honestly how could anyone who follows Christ, who suffered the death penalty unjustly, so easily push for it.

A normal IQ + True Christian Value = anti-death penalty.

We are talking about Jesus here, the love your neighbor as yourself, the turn the cheek guy, yeah him. Not the kill the dude who hurts you guy... Never once said it.

IMO death is too easy. If someone is evil, then whats better for them then wasting away in prison, away from their loved ones, away from life, away from everything special, rotting in a cell, getting gang raped for life, with nothing to do but repent or rot.

Countless innocent people have been put to death throughout time. Millions of those who supposedly deserve it, still walk the earth. It doesn't detour crime, never has... Time to wake up, esp to those God fearing folks...

Remember he's the one who judges all, not you or the Governor, or the President or the court system.

I've had a first hand experience with the whole death penalty thing, my friend was shot in the head after being car jacked. No death penalty in Rhode Island, but they pushed for Federal law (car jacking resulting in death can get death penalty). (do a search on Amy Shute)

None of the 5 people who did it, got the death penalty. But you know what, they will rot in prison until they die, never to get out and just be free again, and to me thats way worse then the death penalty... The family wanted it, but thats because of the state they were in, understandable cuz of the events.

So keep spreading that nonsense christian thinking. Pat Robinson does not equal Jesus Christ... Sorry, he isn't the new messiah... Let Jesus Judge you, not political-religious-salesmen who are trying to convert our country into something that is not.

I'm not totally religious (grew up in the Catholic School system,( keep the anti catholic nonsense to yourself) but I have an IQ that allows me to see the hypocritical bs that comes from the mouths of many so called devote christians, including those in my own religion.

Just doesn't make sense. IF you want to Kill those who do harm to you, pick another religion, invent your own Jesus (basically thats what your doing anyways).. But geez, don't push anti christian thinking, while claiming the tax-free christian status...


Pro Death Penalty and Christian Value are opposites. Extremely opposite ways of dealing with life.

You can not pick and choose Christian Values to fit your thinking. Well you can, but its not waht Christ was about. What makes that thinking better then Islam extremists, who stone little girls? Jesus wasn't about Death Penalty.

I think this is a rather pointless argument to start with. Citing a specific, hyperthetical excample is fine, but what broader point is being made???

This is possible, but it does not offer 'proof' in any way whatsoever that everyone is against the death penalty. All I can see the point being is that there are sometimes remarkable circumstances resulting in miscarriages of justice, but so what? Its terrible, but it happens. People get robbed all the time, its bad but it happens. People get run over all the time, its bad but it happens.

Incidentally, I am against the death penalty, but I do not believe the thread has proved anything or changed anyones mind.

Originally posted by squidboy
IMO death is too easy. If someone is evil, then whats better for them then wasting away in prison, away from their loved ones, away from life, away from everything special, rotting in a cell, getting gang raped for life, with nothing to do but repent or rot.

I agree with most of your post, but the thing about people deserving gang rape...

No matter what someone can do, I don't think that justifies gang rape...Wow that would be awful.

In the criminal justice system there will always be innocents sentenced to life. Does making them get gang raped solve any tangible problems?

I don't think jails are the answer either, rehabilitation and love is probably much more effective. They still need to pay for their crimes, but why make others pay (judges, guards, lawyers). Granted the system creates jobs, but that doesn't mean we can't make up for it elsewhere.


We were born free, we should die free. Laws just hold us down.

Break free of the shackles of oppression my brothers and sisters.

We do not have a death penalty system in my country, but I would not mind if we have one.

Why?

For one: Rather die than be in jail for a lifetime whilst getting raped all the time.
For two: Everyone dies someday in their life, whether that comes sooner or later, it does not matter.

Now I could write down a huge post talking about this, but I won't.

However I will say this, your worst case scenario is ridicule.

That's like saying, everyone's pro abortion, because if you do not kill that one kid that did not get "abortioned", he will kill you later.

Also, if we were all anti-death penalty, we should be anti-war as well, anti-weaponry, anti-anything violent.

Because with *everything* violent, at least one ''innocent'' gets killed.
And innocence does not neccesarily mean that he did or did not do that drug deal, innocence can be used in an other sense as well.

[edit on 9/5/07 by -0mega-]

Sorry bud, this didn't prove anything in my eyes. I know it's a hypothetical situation, but even if the crime were real that depiction of our justice system is far from it. Our CJS favors the criminal over the victims.

Anyone remember a couple years back all the talk about fast-tracking the administration of justice in capital cases? The idea was to limit the seemingly endless amount of frivolous appeals and reduce the time from end of 1st appeal to two years from the current average of about twenty. Of course it was shot down, but they had the right idea. The death penalty is rarely given out, and even more rarely is it carried out - the folks die in jail waiting, and appeals, when successful (I believe they are in less than 5% of cases if I recall correctly), just "reduce" the punishment to life in prison.

Sex crimes in jail are much more rare than everybody seems to think. CCJS was a major of mine, and it seems in every course dealing with corrections somebody asks about it and the professor chuckles. Though I have no idea what gang-rape has to do with the death penalty (death row is not a social networking designation, and you don't mingle with the general population)

While it's jammed down our throats that the death penalty is not a general deterent, which from all available data appears to be correct, the recidivism rate of all violent crimes is huge, especially with rapists and child molesters. With the death penalty we may not be detering crime, but we do not have to worry about that individual hurting another ever again. The easiest way to track sex criminals is not with ankle bracelets - it's with 6' of dirt. Don't even need a battery.

Now I don't fully understand the "those who support the death penalty and who are also anti-abortion have issues." I could turn it right around and, more accurately in my opinion, say "those who support killing innocent babies but not violent murderers have issues."

If anything, I'd extend the use of the death penalty to include rape and manufacture of child pornography as capital cases.

There's so many holes in this, that to me, it doesn't even merit serious attention.

Sorry, you have not convinced me there is no need for the death penalty.

You case is hypothetical and flawed - it sounds more like a steven king novel than anything else.

Our system of justice isn't perfect, neither is any system of justice. But - have you got anything better to offer?

By just letting everyone roam free - "better 1,000 guilty free" aren't you creating a "wild west mentality?"

Let's use your situation and take it a couple of steps in another direction. Let's just say that this guy was never sentenced and released from custody a couple of days after the trial.

Me, being the parent of the girl who was raped and killed - went out and found this person in the street and killed him with a baseball bat. What happens to me in your justice system? And let's say that the story unfolds the way you say it does with the frame up, Then what?

Do I get sentenced and put to death? Or do I get let go? to be part of the "1,000 guilty".

You talk about the death penalty as if we are killing hundreds of people every day. You know that's not the case. You know that it takes years to kill some one and the amount of appeals those sentenced to die get.

But, I think you've taken a complex situation and tried to simplify it.

I have to disagree with your reasoning.

Please return the 1 minute of my life you've wasted with this pointless post.

p.

38 states in the US and the Federal government have the death penalty. I don’t have the list of non-death penalty states but I expect Google does.

In the relatively recent case of Illinois, 7% of the prisoners on Death Row were found to be innocent. This revelation was not made by the state of Illinois nor by the court system; all of the men on death row had exhausted their state appeals. Instead, it was discovered by a student study under the supervision of Northwestern University School of Law.

The very courageous Republican governor of Illinois pardoned or commuted all the remaining death sentences - he is now in prison on unrelated charges - until the “flawed system could be overhauled.” The seven percent turns out to be about 9 men of the approximate 130 men on the Illinois death row.

In the most egregious case, 4 cops had framed an innocent man. One of the cops had a turn of conscience and ratted out his 3 co-conspirators. The man was freed and the bad cops are now in prison.

Using Illinois as representative of the 38 states, it follows then that George W Bush ordered the execution of 11 innocent men during his 6 years stint as governor of Texas. No wonder he acts crazy! Yes, Dumbya ordered 154 men put to death. A world record in itself! Well, an American record which may be his only LEGACY to America. Unless you want to count his spreading of democracy in the Middle East?

[edit on 5/9/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by piacenza
Everyone is against the death penalty and I will prove it.

Yeah, no. I am for it, and you didn't prove anything.

Heres another story.

A man kills 5 people, goes to jail. Escapes from jail, kills again. Doesn't want to go back to jail so kills 3 police then shoots himself.

It could happen.

Both of our stories don't mean a thing, and won't change anyones mind. No way can you say that everybody is against it just because you made up some story.

I'm against the death penalty, but, I don't see how this make everyone against it.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by ChrisJr03]

Morally I'm against the death penalty. However, if I ever met the guy that murdered my sister he'd be dead in two seconds flat, so I guess I'm a hypocrit in that sense.

When I think of it this way I decide that it should be up to the families of the victims as to whether they face death. In fact, it should be up to the families to carry out the act. If they can't do it then it shouldn't be put on someone else to carry it out, whether they have to live with it their entire lives or they get sadistic pleasure out of their job.

Worthless thread.

That was not "proof". It was a waste of time.

The words "proof" and "logic" seem to be used around here without any thought to definition at all.

I am against the death penalty mostly because it is murder. it makes us just as bad as the murderer we are murdering. why not be the better person and let them live? the bible says::
Matthew chapter 5
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...."

and even as an athiest I think thats a good thing to live by.