Everyone is against the death penalty and I will prove it.

Everyone is against the death penalty and I will prove it.

Here is a little story.
You have a perfect son a role model.
One night he goes out he is walking in the street he is blond blue eyes or he is black with black eyes.
he is the love of your life you are so proud of him.
All of a sudden 5 cops catch him and throws him in jail.
He does not understand what is happening.
After a few hours in jail he is accused of child raping and murdering a 4 yrs old girl found in a basement tied and raped for over 4 months.
He does not understand what its happening he says he is innocent.
Later on during the trial his own sperm was found inside the little girls along with some of his clothes.
In a record sentence in less than 30 minutes a jury finds him guilty and sentences him to death.
A girl named Joane whois 22 yrs old who had a relationship with the guy accused him of confessing the horrific crime. She said he took great pleasure in telling the story but she thought he was kidding finally one night he followed him and discovered the so called truth.
Child pornography was found on your son computer.
A glass and a screwdriver had the fingerprints of your son.
The screwdriver was used to murder the little girl she had over 100 punctures all over her body.
Your son is in jail being mass raped and assaulted day and night by other convicts.
He also failed a truth test.
The death sentence is carried out with electro execution. The execution goes wrong and your son dies burned alive with terrible pain.
Now your son was not guilty the girl was actually devoted to satan.
She takes great pleasure with a friend of her to kidnap rape and kill small girls to offer them as sacrifices to the Devil.
One day after your son used the screwdriver she took it with a plastic bag.
After having sex with a condom she inserted the sperm inside the little girl.
The easy part was planting a few clothes of him in the basement.
Your son failed the truth test because was way to nervous.
She and her friend took great pleasure in killing and raping the little girl.
She inserted a few pedo pictures on your son computer and fabricated the story.
You never visited your son in jail you hated him.
You would have always been convinced that he was a child abuser a murderer etc, but 3 weeks after the death sentence the girl confesses after an investigator found pictures of the girl abusing the little girl in her own personal laptop. The investigator confiscated it a while back but no body had the time to look into it. The picture were in a secret file.
He died alone he was a great guy if his life went on he would have invented an antigravity engine that would have saved humanity (a little ATS wont hurt the story).
Human race is doomed an innocent was killed your life was ruined.
Now the son might have been you.

Moral of the story...

BETTER 1.000 GUILTY FREE THAN 1 INNOCENT IN JAIL.
That innocent man might be you or your son or the saviour of the human race.


[edit on 9-5-2007 by piacenza]

Yeah well, stuff like that happens, and always will. You didn't prove anything to me.

I'm still FOR the death pnealty.

Even if that guy was you?
So if you are for the penalty you would have seen nothing wrong on let yourself been killed.

Ok,
so according to you, because some people might be to dumb to realise that the people they are hanging around with are dangerous, and might get framed, the death penalty should be stopped.

Ok, so if you borrow your car to someone and a couple of weeks later you get a speeding ticket at home, should that warrant the removal of speeding tickets, because there might be a possiblity, that you didn't do it....?

I think there is still something like taking your own responsability and yeah well, sometimes justice fails, sometimes it really sucks but still...

I come from a country, where we don't even have the death penalty (netherlands), but it wouldn't be a bad idea to start it over here..

Originally posted by piacenza
Even if that guy was you?
So if you are for the penalty you would have seen nothing wrong on let yourself been killed.

That's the breaks.

Look, the justice system isn't perfect, and it never will be. Innocent people are convicted everday, I'm sure. But so are the ones who deserve it.

Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good, its life. It's the same no matter what we're talking about.

Originally posted by piacenza
Everyone is against the death penalty and I will prove it.

One day after your son used the screwdriver she took it with a plastic bag.
After having sex with a condom she inserted the sperm inside the little girl.

Once again you prove nothing.

Wouldn't forensics be able to prove how "old" sperm is how it got "where it was found" ( trying to be polite ).
I mean, I think the can tell if he was "inside" the girl or if the sperm was "planted" there another way.

LOL. ^ Sometimes, once sperm is found and identified in the victim, they don't usually go about asking how the sperm got in there. They're just happy they found the suspects sperm in there to begin with.

But this story says nothing to me, I am 100% for the death penalty.

Originally posted by piacenza

Moral of the story...

BETTER 1.000 GUILTY FREE THAN 1 INNOCENT IN JAIL.
That innocent man might be you or your son or the saviour of the human race.

Hmmm, you'd rather have 1,000 child rapists roaming the streets than risk one innocent person being sent to prison

I'd argue the opposite.

I'd also argue that the sacrifice of one is sometimes necessary for the good of the many.

Again what about if that mistake was you...
Too bad?

So as a reverse logic if there is one guilty person and there is one innocent and we do not know which is the guilty one but in the future one of the 2 will kill 500 little child would you kill them both?

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by piacenza

Moral of the story...

BETTER 1.000 GUILTY FREE THAN 1 INNOCENT IN JAIL.
That innocent man might be you or your son or the saviour of the human race.

Hmmm, you'd rather have 1,000 child rapists roaming the streets than risk one innocent person being sent to prison

I'd argue the opposite.

I'd also argue that the sacrifice of one is sometimes necessary for the good of the many.

But who is doing the "sacrificing?" If you have a government that is more corrupt than the mafia, one that has no code of honor, just what point are you making? The statement "better 1,000 guilty free rather than one innocent convicted," used to be the core of our judicial system. It refers to a case by case basis of prosecution. Your First Officer Spock statement, is a point of moral minimalism. Each individual biological unit has an essential survival mandate followed by a larger mandate of the social sphere. When viewing this as a solipsism, survival is first. When viewing it as a social identity the same survival is measured as a mathematical construct.

The point is reasonable doubt. Caseloads make assembly line court systems, threatening higher charges than actually exist, to "make deals," to plea bargain. Many innocent people get intimidated and do time due to an imbalance of overbearing authority. Such a thing is an intoxicating narcotic, a power mad lust.

The author's scenario and story might be more typical for immunities granted monstrous elites. Frame jobs and patsies are too typical. No one should want to sacrifice themselves as a peasant slave to the hideous elites. Look at the Dutroux trial for example. The opposite reality is evident in court. The elite network sticking it in the people's face, grants themselves immunities. Normally conservative Europeans went out into the streets and protested, far before any corrupt COINTELPRO operation could render it powerless. A media monopoly made it a dead letter but still on the record.

The death penalty is obsolete and invalid when observed in an accompanying tyranny. No no no, it is the many who are "sacrificed for the few," far too often than the rare gift of justice performs its duties aptly. That's my argument.

When herded into a mentality of sheep, you do not need sheep dogs, because verbose sheep baa baa for the death penalty with annoying frequency.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by piacenza
So as a reverse logic if there is one guilty person and there is one innocent and we do not know which is the guilty one but in the future one of the 2 will kill 500 little child would you kill them both?

Its not much of a scenario. There would be no possible way to know someone was going to kill 500 children sometime in the future, thus making your question unplausible to answer.

If, by some extraordinary circumstance, this was able to occur, and I was the innocent of the two...... I would say 'kill us both'. To die knowing you saved 500 innocent children isn't a bad way to die IMO.

As mentioned earlier, still no proof regarding your statement.

Death Penalty =
Unfounded claims=

Originally posted by Grailkeeper

If, by some extraordinary circumstance, this was able to occur, and I was the innocent of the two...... I would say 'kill us both'. To die knowing you saved 500 innocent children isn't a bad way to die IMO.

Good answer

And yes, if I had to be the one to kill you both, knowing that by doing so I would save 500 children, then I would do so.

If however it's a case of [i[could save 500 children, the issue become less clear cut. And of course, that's what we have in the real world. Then one has to weight up the odds more carefully. Or just be a cold hearted b*stard who doesn't really like people anyway

Originally posted by piacenza
Moral of the story...

BETTER 1.000 GUILTY FREE THAN 1 INNOCENT IN JAIL.
That innocent man might be you or your son or the saviour of the human race.


[edit on 9-5-2007 by piacenza]

This is flawed logic imo. Child predators are not rehabilitatable THAT is a fact. Now look at this logically. 1000 innocent children raped and/or murdered than 1 innocent in jail. That's just assuming that those 1000 predators only reoffend once which wouldn't be the case.

The death penalty is one of those hot button issues politicians use to get elected and people hearing about how killers have gotten out of prison in just a few years will vote them in all the while they don't know that the death penalty is one of the reasons this early release happens.

I had a friend who was murdered by three individuals with witnesses, as a matter of fact they held people, men, women and children prisoners and threatened to shoot them who were at the park that day if they assisted my friend, they got out of prison after serving only 6 years, ridiculous!

There really should be no death penalty, there should be life without parole ever, if you are found guilty of murder. The death penalty ends up costing more than life without parole.

But what happens is that people think the death penalty is a deterrant to murder, it is not, usually in states that have the death penalty the murder rate is higher. Most murderers don't think they are going to get caught for their crimes, so the death penalty is not important to them, and not a deterrant.

If the law was life without parole and the death penalty was not used things would be better, there have been many cases where innocent people were proving innocent only after being put to death, the thing is though there have many cases where the majority of people who murder getting paroled and murdering again.

Most of the time the death penalty is not used only a few get the death penalty, drop the current laws and go with the law of absolutely no parole if convicted of murder and you give the innocent man the chance to prove his innocence and you also stop any murderer from walking the streets again which is what usually happens eventually as things stands now.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by goose]

How can you be pro-death penalty?

How can you murder your own brothers and sisters over some petty crime they may not have committed?

How can you sit by and watch our government destroy innocent lives?

How?



If any of you are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty...Wow, you have some serious issues.


Do you not realize they are you?

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" remember that, one day it may save your own life.


People please...Is not forgiveness a much more powerful tool than incarceration?

There is no such thing as rehabilitation in jail, it just does NOT happen. When you throw average people in with cold hearted killers they do not come out the same. They have to survive in jail and therefore become the same people as the child molesters, murderers, etc.


How can you be so cold?

I believe one would call it COWARDICE!

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by nyk537
Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good, its life. It's the same no matter what we're talking about.

Ah yes its life.

Life implements the "death penalty" for people who do "wrong" under societies standards.

Nature does not have a death penalty, that was man's invention.

As long as we have this, there will continue to be unrest in our respective countries.

Those who are not affluent enough will be able to afford a good lawyer who will get them out of jail. Those who are poor will rot in jail or be sentenced to death. That sounds pretty messed up to me, but maybe not to you as you have already accepted life as it is.

I choose to change and do what is best for everyone not my own "people."

There was just a story about an African man who raped his niece. They have no justice system and he did not get in trouble at all. Meanwhile, she has not been able to urinate/excrete normally since then. She is in a great deal of pain, while he is free. Does that sound like the system is working?

There are more murderers and corrupt officials within our own government than in the whole population. They are the ones who make the laws yet there is a double standard that lets them go free.

HYPOCRISY at its finest my friends, wake the # up.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
If any of you are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty...Wow, you have some serious issues.

You just explained my stance on these issueS. I don't see the relevance of one to the other.

People please...Is not forgiveness a much more powerful tool than incarceration?

There is no such thing as rehabilitation in jail, it just does NOT happen. When you throw average people in with cold hearted killers they do not come out the same. They have to survive in jail and therefore become the same people as the child molesters, murderers, etc.


How can you be so cold?

I believe one would call it COWARDICE!

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

What you say is true about the nature of prison but I don't see this as cowardice. I think you missed my post above that explained all of this. Cowardice would be allowing continued assaults on our young. Do you have no compassion for them?

I agree... ONLY because I think death is WAYY to damn easy! I'd rather be dead then in jail. I do find 1,000 guilty people on the street is better then 1 innocent in jail to be absurd, better safe then sorry.

Originally posted by intrepid
What you say is true about the nature of prison but I don't see this as cowardice. I think you missed my post above that explained all of this. Cowardice would be allowing continued assaults on our young. Do you have no compassion for them?

You are right, compassion needs to be found for the innocent. I was not trying to say what people do is "right" sorry for the confusion.

I don't have any answers to these problems.

I can offer a solution of everyone spreading out so there is no reason for crime in the first place. Also if everyone has what they need there will be less crime in the inner cities.

I know there will always be sick and twisted individuals. They may not have been hugged enough as children or have some brain chemistry issues. For these people, maybe there does need to be a way to keep them away from everyone else. But who decides who is "good" and who is "bad?"

Our government doesn't have the best track record with prisons. Remember GITMO, Japanese internment camps, Abu Gahrib?

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Nature does not have a death penalty, that was man's invention.

Tell that to the zebra as the lion is chowing down.

Those who are not affluent enough will be able to afford a good lawyer who will get them out of jail. Those who are poor will rot in jail or be sentenced to death. That sounds pretty messed up to me, but maybe not to you as you have already accepted life as it is.

I'm sure Paul Bernardo will be happy to get this news. His life sentance is sure to be tossed out. He wasn't poor.

There was just a story about an African man who raped his niece. They have no justice system and he did not get in trouble at all. Meanwhile, she has not been able to urinate/excrete normally since then. She is in a great deal of pain, while he is free. Does that sound like the system is working?

And what does this have to do with our society?

HYPOCRISY at its finest my friends, wake the # up.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

I know this is a heated topic but could you manage to discuss it without swearing please?