No-Holds Barred Battle Over the Existence of God

Beware the Crocoduck...



'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
"Beware the Crocoduck, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch

I think Cameron presented a crock of something, heh.

So, I haven't seen the Nightline condensed version that aired, but apparently it was a total travesty of the debate. I'm sure the RRS will release their full copy of the debate in time.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
have you read over god's law? it includes punishing a girl who was raped WITH DEATH because she didn't scream loud enough for someone to hear her.

I've been over this with you, or one spirit like you before here. The wages of sin is death. By the law, she consented.

The law is only to show GOD's perfection, the standard of perfection. To show that we all have sinned and are criminals. The only way out of the death sentence is Jesus Christ.

Do you any idea what you are saying here?

I hope that you are not the typical religious theist, And people wonder why there are so many RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST being created.

You have Got to be out of your mind.

Sinned and condemned, and this make it alright for a criminal in any society to be raped and abused. A criminal is not a person anymore reguardless of the crime commited?

IT SHOWS YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LIFE, PERIOD.

It isn't about sin or guilt, it is about respect for another being. This is exactly the reason why religion needs brainwashing, is it not ironic that theists do not see it happening in their own religion the brainwashing that they see in other religions?

Your God condones this? This shows how much "love" your God has for us?
Are babies subjected to the same law?

[edit on 11-5-2007 by ixiy]

Originally posted by ixiy
IT SHOWS YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LIFE, PERIOD.

If one works to turn people away from salvation they have no respect for life. Plenty of them running around these days.

Originally posted by ixiy
It isn't about sin or guilt, it is about respect for another being.

I'm sure that not only I find it interesting your choice of wording here. "Another Being." The command was not, love the son of perdition and his demons as you love yourself.

Originally posted by ixiy
Your God condones this? This shows how much "love" your God has for us?

If he didn't love us, he wouldn't have made the sacrifice for us. Do you realize how ignorant you or anyone else is to make such a statement? I'm being very, very, nice in saying so too.

If GOD hated us, we'd all be in hell right now. That's why he continues to give breath to those who curse him, in hopes that they may change.

Unfortunately, I heard about it after the program aired. Is there a transcript available? If so, does anyone have the website?

Occam

You have voted ixiy for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

ixiy, thank you for further pointing out the utter disregard for humanity, life, and decency wisesheep and her/his petty mountain god have.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
If one works to turn people away from salvation they have no respect for life.

Misthinking about life, although the opposite of death, misthinking about death that it is separation from god. So many definitions of death are intended to confuse to promote blind acceptance, the feeling that you understand.

If he didn't love us, he wouldn't have made the sacrifice for us.

An immortal entity cannot sacrifice himself. It is contradiction. Think about this. If I sacrifice myself and cease to exist, I have given up everything. Jesus supposes to be in Heaven now. How is that a sacrifice? There is no sacrifice if you get it back or if there was never a possibility to lose it.

Do you realize how ignorant you or anyone else is to make such a statement?

It can't be any more clear who is ignorant here.

My signature still says an immortal entity cannot die.

Why is this simple fact so hard for you to understand?

If GOD hated us, we'd all be in hell right now.

How is that different from being in Hell later?

That's why he continues to give breath to those who curse him, in hopes that they may change.

He gives breath to you. If we are alive to find him, why are you still here?


[edit on 11-5-2007 by Columbus]

Sorry, I pressed the wrong button.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by Columbus]

Originally posted by Sword and Shield
It is so easy to throw accusations at someones' beliefs without backing it up with proof. God did indeed call on the early Hebrews to attack and kill large numbers of men. These were usually armies of opposing races that opposed Gods plan for the Nation of Israel. Who has the better right to call for a peoples destruction than the God who created them in the first place? If God did indeed create the Universe and all that is within it, including me and you, who the heck are we to tell Him what He can or can not do?

I can't believe I'm hearing this. Maybe you should go back and read the bible, specifically Exodus Chapter 20, Verse 13:

Thou shalt not kill

So god says not to kill, but then tells people to go and kill people he doesn't like?!?

Just because you think that it was gods will, does not make it better.

Originally posted by Sword and Shield
However, using "shock" words like "genocide" and "rape" only show that you have a very limited knowledge of the Bible in general and Christianity in particular.

Genocide:

1. The systematic killing of substantial numbers of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, or other particularity.

2. Acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.

en.wiktionary.org...

Sounds exactly like what happened!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You have voted ixiy for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

ixiy, thank you for further pointing out the utter disregard for humanity, life, and decency wisesheep and her/his petty mountain god have.

Thanks madnessinmysoul.
_______________________

Ancient Gnostic disciples of Jesus reveal reasons for Extraterrestrial Denial in Western society

by Pierre Bertrand

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Link provided By EarthOne on ATS, in Conspiracies in Religions, Titled: Religion Vs. World.

Explains how most religions on Earth maybe distorted by manpulative beings for power, to dominate, enslave and abuse us. It may explain why there are so many contradictions in certain religions and what maybe happening in this world.

Interesting read, good possible theory in my opinion. I take it with a pinch of salt like everything else. I don't believe it completely, just wanted to share some reading material.

It does support my views that we are being deceived for some agenda by beings that may have existed in the universe before us.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by ixiy]

Originally posted by Occam
Unfortunately, I heard about it after the program aired. Is there a transcript available? If so, does anyone have the website?

Occam

See page two.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
I'm sure that not only I find it interesting your choice of wording here. "Another Being." The command was not, love the son of perdition and his demons as you love yourself.

Who is the blind one here? By saying Being, I refer to life, specifically animal life. Just because we can do anything to the animals on this planet, doesn't mean we have the right to abuse them anyway we see fit, it shows a lack of respect for other living things.

Guess where we learnt it from. Who was it that wanted life to be sacrifice to it to be pleased?

If he didn't love us, he wouldn't have made the sacrifice for us. Do you realize how ignorant you or anyone else is to make such a statement? I'm being very, very, nice in saying so too.

If GOD hated us, we'd all be in hell right now. That's why he continues to give breath to those who curse him, in hopes that they may change.

Try deception.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by ixiy]

I am the all-singing, all-dancing crap of this world.... I am the toxic waste by-product of God's creation. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 23


Hell, if I had the power of God, I would have made a better Human. If we are made in Gods image then I pity God, he looks so goofy~1

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by Occam
Unfortunately, I heard about it after the program aired. Is there a transcript available? If so, does anyone have the website?

Occam

See page two.

Sorry, I'm looking for a transcript, NOT a video link.

Occam

I'm looking for a transcript, Occam, but haven't found one yet. The show probably wants people to buy it.

Another peice of confushion if your god said "you shall have no idols above me" why would he send "jesus" to be idolised and treated as a god even though he is the "son of god" and not god himself?

Originally posted by vysage
Another peice of confushion if your god said "you shall have no idols above me" why would he send "jesus" to be idolised and treated as a god even though he is the "son of god" and not god himself?

The hand that wrote those commandments both in the heart of man and in stone, is the same that was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Kirk Cameron and his "scientist" buddy are terrible Christian apologists. Seriously. I heard one of their sermons before and when they got to the whole "banana argument" I just felt like crying.

Leave it to the real Christian Apologists who would wipe the floor with their opponents in this debate. I mean, of course, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Gene Scott. All of them are dead though...

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Kirk Cameron and his "scientist" buddy are terrible Christian apologists.

redundant. and i don't think is friend actually claimed to be a scientist.

Seriously. I heard one of their sermons before and when they got to the whole "banana argument" I just felt like crying.

i had a similar reaction... but mine was more out of reaction to the fact that some people actually buy into it. it also made me laugh because of the apparent... well, someone told me look at the banana as a phallis for some hilarity and it didn't disappoint.

Leave it to the real Christian Apologists who would wipe the floor with their opponents in this debate.

well, the guys on the atheist side weren't exactly paragons of atheist intellectualism. was Dawkins there?

I mean, of course, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Gene Scott. All of them are dead though...

i doubt Lewis would've been able to go 3 rounds of debate with Dawkins Same goes for Tolkien and Scott.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i doubt Lewis would've been able to go 3 rounds of debate with Dawkins Same goes for Tolkien and Scott.

Richard Dawkins has not proven himself an adequate adversary in any debate about religion becuase he isn't strictly logical or even extremely scientific in his arguments. Oh, he may float a lot of suggestions and theories of how religion might have come about and why humanity seems to need it so much, but he doesn't back it up with any scientific evidence.
In the end he is just an angry zoologist who hates religion but can't bring himself to logically express why.

Consider the following:

There are several problems with his argument that ultimately make The God Delusion a great disappointment. The first is his tendency to avoid proving his own theses in favor of simply assuming them and hoping the reader will find the implications of them as attractive and self-evident as he does. The scientist in him wants to test the predictability of his theory, in this case with speculative theories of how things might have come about solely by virtue of material conditions. He uses this method in his discussion of the origin of religion and of morality, and it falls flat.

His entire discussion of the origin of religion requires you to have previously accepted his naturalistic world view. "Knowing that we are products of Darwinian evolution..." he begins, and then we are off to the races. "The proximate cause of religion might be hyperactivity in a particular node of the brain," he declares. But the ultimate cause, he thinks, lies in his theory that religion is "a byproduct of something else." He then launches into various theories of what religious belief may have been useful for, all of which are pure speculation.

Dawkin's whole discussion of the naturalistic explanation of religion assumes that such an explanation renders the beliefs thus explained illusory. But if a naturalistic explanation for a belief renders it illusory, and all beliefs can be explained naturalistically, then atheism too can be explained naturalistically, and is therefore illusory. He who lives by naturalistic explanations must die by them.Vere Loqui

On the other hand Lewis' apologetis were thoughtful and logical and came from a man who was an atheist until he was in his thirties. I think it would probably be Dawkins who wouldn't last 3 rounds with Lewis.

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." C.S. Lewis

Sword and Shield I voted you WATS, keep up the good posts.