No-Holds Barred Battle Over the Existence of God

The members of the Rational Response Squad (left) squared off with Christians Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort (right) about the existence of God. The debate was moderated by Martin Bashir (center) and will be posted on ABCNews.com on Wednesday, May 9 at 1 p.m. and will also air on "Nightline" that night.

Cameron opened the debate by addressing the crowd:

Hi, I'm Kirk Cameron and my partner and I Ray Comfort come to you tonight not as molecular biologists or rocket scientists, but simply as an author and an actor, and we want to do two things that fly in the face of convention. One, we'd like to show you that the existence of God can be proven, 100 percent, absolutely, without the use of faith. And secondly, as a former atheist myself -- an evolutionist -- I want to pull back the curtain and show that the number one reason that people don't believe in God is not a lack in evidence, but because of a theory that many scientists today believe to be a fairytale for grownups.

Source

Now this is one I don't want to miss!

That's for tomorrow WiseSheep? You have to keep this thread open, so we can see the outcome of the debate in here as well.

I remember watching a few "Cloud Nine Productions" with Kirk Cameron in it. He's certainly come a long ways since his 'Growing Pains' sitcoms on TV.

I wonder what made him do a 180 degree turn, from Evolutionist to Believer? What was the turning point in his life? Hmmm.

Great post WiseSheep!!

I look forward to the outcome on this one.

Apparently the 'way of the banana' team broke the debate rules a few times, heh. They were meant to present proof of god without using the bible in 13 minutes or something. Depending how they cut it, it will make numerous appearences.

Expect the highly scientific coke can argument, along with 'building needs a build-or, painting needs a paint-or, and a creation needs a creat-or'. As usual the evangelicals will win on style but lose massively on substance. ABE: I think I could chnage my opinion here, from what I've seen they might also lose on style...

I've seen reports of the debate, but how it will pan out, depends on how it is edited. Apparently a more complete version of the debate will be made available, on the rational response website anyway.

Clip already on youtube (for those of a more delicate disposition, don't watch the first 44 seconds - allow it to upload first and forward it).



[edit on 8-5-2007 by melatonin]

thankyou wisesheep for posting this and i cant wait to see how this plays out in this thread i also cant wait for tonight but duckster have you not watched the left behind movies? or his show way of the master? hes been a christian for a little while know i cant remember what made him really convert over though

i love that the rational responders point out there own mistake on the laws of thermodynamics. but seriously, they should have walked out when the 10 commandments came up.

If a sower casts seed into a heavy wind from a high mountain, but while he's on this mountain successfully casting seed, he's also in battle. Does the battle stop the seed?

no i dont believe it does i believe the seed would continue till it found a spot to grow

Originally posted by followerofchrist
no i dont believe it does i believe the seed would continue till it found a spot to grow

Interesting things, those little seeds are. They'd near bout lead one to believe that the seed-or might even be evidence for a....... well.

so are you going to admit that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort lost this particular debate by violating the premise that they wouldn't bring in the bible?... it's not like they would've won anyway, their arguments are admitedly faith based... oh wait they said that they wouldn't do that either.

it's obvious who won this, the arguments in affirmation of the existence of god were completely destroyed.

Debates are Christian territory. I don't debate Christians anymore. They lie and cheat and pander to the audience. God is already thoroughly disproven. Agreeing to debate the subject creates the pretense that the subject is open to debate. It's not.

It is only the brainwashed and ignorant minds that get warm fuzzies from the images of blood that accept god contrary to the abundant evidence.

I can't do a lot of commenting unless I get my hands on an uncut clip of the whole thing. All I've got to go on is what Melatonin posted and what was just on nightline.

Either would be biased one way or the other.


The point is, if one doesn't have the eyes to see GOD, they wont. What I mean is spiritual eyes to see him. Many have made the conscious choice to oppose GOD and blindly do so. Never having the actual want to find him.

There are going to be a lot of people that will feel like total idiots if they get to the point of it being too late for them without seeking and finding him. Especially any who may have blood on their hands as a result of their actions.

The only possibility of waking the "violently blind" will be during the great day. Even then, it is written that the majority will still blaspheme GOD. Most of the violently blind have made their mind up to spend eternity in hell already. No global event would likely wake them up. So be it.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
The point is, if one doesn't have the eyes to see GOD, they wont. What I mean is spiritual eyes to see him. Many have made the conscious choice to oppose GOD and blindly do so. Never having the actual want to find him.

I am proof that you are wrong. God is make-believe. God is disproven. You are afraid of the truth and clench your eyes shut.

There are going to be a lot of people that will feel like total idiots if they get to the point of it being too late for them...

The true idiot wastes his real life building up worthless treasures in an afterlife he'll never get. Grace is a fraud. Christ is snakeoil.

The only possibility of waking the "violently blind" will be during the great day.

I'll sleep when I'm dead has become I'll wake up when I'm dead? How about I'll be dead when I'm dead?

Even then, it is written that the majority will still blaspheme GOD.

There's not only no risk in blaspheming god, there's no point.

Most of the violently blind have made their mind up to spend eternity in hell already.

Pascal's Wager was refuted. Besides, it can be used against Christ too. What if The Real God sends people to Hell for believing in Christ? Ie, The Real God could be Allah!

Some facts about Kirk Cameron:

He was not raised in a church-going family. People raised in a Christian home and go to church are more likely to have a tolerance for the brainwashing noise floor. The other end of the spectrum are kids exposed to direct brainwash from birth.

An actor on the set of Growing Pains invited the teen star to a church in Fullerton, California, where Chuck Swindoll was pastor. Chuck and Hank Hanegraaff were the most influential in my life too.

They always talk about cults, but I didn't realize that they had redefined the word cult to serve their purposes. Swindoll and Hanegraaff are cult leaders who use the word cult to criticize and attack others while masking their own mind control.

If more people would understand how the leaders in the Christian cults change the meanings of words and use confusion to control your mind, this world would see a paradigm shift against Christianity.

actually you, as a human being, are proof God exists and its funny they were given what about 13 or so minutes to prove without using faith that God exists and Ray did that and why atheists dont believe in what like 4 minutes (i dont know the approximate time that he moved on to the next topic) then he moved to the ten commandments to tell them they if they have eyes to see or a brain that works believe in the existance of God then they know they need to be saved and that moved into the third topic conversion. ithink the thing i liked most when i went on to abc.com was where Ray talked about the Big Bang Coke can that was funny how he made it so simply ridiculas the Big bang theory is. the airring was better than i thought because i thought that it was going to play favortism but it didnt and that was what made it good i think

Originally posted by followerofchrist
actually you, as a human being, are proof God exists

That is a non sequitur and obviously false.

...if they have eyes to see or a brain that works believe in the existance of God...

Appeal to brainwashing. Only people who are already brainwashed will believe this "eyes to see" nonsense. If you're brainwashed you are sure not going to ascend. You're only a tool. Tools don't go to heaven, only sentient beings.

...they know they need to be saved...

See the thread Striking the Root: Applegate to see why no one needs to be saved. It's snake oil.

...Ray talked about the Big Bang Coke...

Appeal to ignorance. Only the ignorant believe such nonsense and that is who their target audience is. Even when it is explained to you why this is wrong, you still don't get it because you are intentionally ignorant. You want not to know.

did you watch the nightline in its entirity? because it was good.

do you like taking only the parts you can comment on out of my post?

how about this what happened that you despise christianity? a death? rebellion? afraid? honestly, im not tring to be mean or anything

Originally posted by Columbus
I am proof that you are wrong. God is make-believe. God is disproven.

Satan would love to have us believe you are proof.

He's setup plenty of sock puppets such as yourself to test us. You are only a test. A refining fire. Harmless as a mouse to those who are in the hand of Jesus Christ.

You are an example. A display piece for lesson. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Albert Pike, who himself was a slave to lucifer even wrote of you over a century ago. How you would be part of satan's plan to attempt to destroy Christianity.

The rock which your spirit tested 2000 years ago, wrote of you. You are known and well understood.

You have no idea how you are being used. Only Jesus Christ can break you free from the one who has you bound.

wsheep, i looked for god... searched for god, was told i would find god. i did that for the better part of two years and i came upon the conclusion i had suspected since i was 8... there is no god, especially one that created the universe in its entirety

ypu believe in a god that created ebola, cancer, AIDS, and all other life threatening diseases if you take the sides of these guys.

hell, they proved absolutely nothing and couldn't respond to the law of conservation of matter and energy. they asked what created matter and energy, using the laws of physics... they always existed. when asked what created god they answered "we believe" which is F A I T H

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
hell, they proved absolutely nothing...

I tend to disagree.




They certainly proved they couldn't form a rational and logical argument, heh.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by melatonin]

"Many have made the conscious choice to oppose GOD and blindly do so. Never having the actual want to find him."

How do you know god is a he? God might be a she or an it.
The unequivocable fact is that noone knows for sure-you might say you do but you are only indulging in speculation and conjecture.
You might also want to ask yourself why you refute all the other 3000+ religions alive in the world today yet become righteously affronted when people act the same with yours(quite hypocritical dont you think?)
Whilst theres nothing intrinsicaly wrong with beleiving in a non provable beleif system ,it becomes a little presumptous and when folks start preaching faith as fact.
Religious beleif does not guarantee moral integrityand surely attempting to be a kind,benevolent,compassionate individual far outweighs whether or not you subscribe to one of the hundreds of religions that have existed down the ages.