Is John Lear Spreading Disinfo?

Originally posted by undo
considering the size of this thing, when viewed in the larger image of copernicus crater, the idea that you might be able to see the smoke or ground cover clouds/fog/mist with a telescope seems unlikely. the albedo (is that the right term?) of these craters is very high, which would mask out some of the cloudiness from a long distance, such as from earth, but would be more readily viewable closer to ground level, where the camera lens can filter out the extreme brightness.

As much as I try, I don't see "clouds, fog or mist" in this picture. It's not that I see something and say "This looks like clouds, but it can't be, because the moon has no atmosphere etc. ..." - I simply don't see it.

Anyway, did you know that astronomers do not use close-up images of a celestial body to determine the density and composition of its atmosphere? They use spectroscopic analysis of the sunlight which is reflected from the body. This is not too difficult for many planets and moons in our solar system, and particularly easy for the moon because it is so close and reflects a lot of light. With such spectroscopy, which even a well-equipped amateur can do, the atmosphere of the moon has been analyzed from down here pretty well. The result is that it is extremely thin, and doesn't have anywhere near the density (and composition) to form clouds or fog.

If there were a sizeable atmosphere on the moon (or even a breathable one, as John Lear claims), which is necessary if you want things like clouds, it would be very easy to verify this from earth by any determined and well-equipped amateur astronomer. And you think all of these people of many places and times (the relevant knowledge is almost 100 years old) are kept silent why some shadowy "Über-Government"? If you like, you can believe this (and as I said, I can't disprove such a Grand Conspiracy Theory), but please excuse me if I don't buy it.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by undo
yfxxx,

well did they tell you that there is craft capable of basically folding space?

Who's "they"? GSI Darmstadt? German phyicists?

Anyway, no, they didn't. They didn't tell me the exitence of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, either.

or are you suggesting they don't know about USA technology?

They don't know about secret U.S. technology. But they do know the latest physical theories discussed in civilian research institutions all over the world.

Regards
yf

Civilian? Perhaps that's the problem. Maybe its the military groups that are hoarding the info, but somebody is, cause hubby wouldn't lie to me about his experience. Whereas military guys with top secret technology would have a reason to .. not lie, but omit

This conversation is degrading fast.

Is it really up for debate that the government (especially the military) hides information and lies to us?

Did we forget the Tuskeegee Airmen? What about Roswell, with 2 admitted lies?

The part that really concerns me is that logical people will accept the third story as fact, even after two previous lies.

I just don't get it.

After reading the soul catcher tower.. sorry, but that is bull, and John knows it. Do i think John is an agent though? I honestly don't know, i do not know enough about his history etc to make such a claim.

One question i have not seen anyone ask here, is if he is a "disinfo agent", then why was he promoted to the spotlight he resides in now..what does that tell you about ATS.

The only person you can trust when truth seeking is YOURSELF. Taking the words of others is a risky business, if not foolish. One thing i have to realise is that typically, when someone comes out with an outlandish/crazy claim, if it makes you fearful, then it is most likely bs.


Sorry, but i just can't trust someone who has had any connection with the military what so ever.. im sure you'll understand why, John.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
After reading the soul catcher tower.. sorry, but that is bull, and John knows it.

I agree with you on that. I think John Lear makes a lot of sense with his comments about politics, and the Government -- and quite frankly, even though I don't have much faith in them, I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or two of his more elaborate claims were in fact true. But I have considerable trouble stomaching the "Soul Catcher." I also find his strong support of Billy Meir perplexing, as a lot of Meir's material is clearly fraudulent.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Sorry, but i just can't trust someone who has had any connection with the military what so ever..

"You're painting with a wide brush," as they say. Not everyone in the Military plays the game.

Originally posted by Nobusuke Tagomi
"You're painting with a wide brush," as they say. Not everyone in the Military plays the game.

I know, and i accept that. Unless i knew them personally, i just can't trust anyone whos been inside the military.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I know, and i accept that. Unless i knew them personally, i just can't trust anyone whos been inside the military.

Understood. I don't really blame you for feeling that way, to be honest. I personally think some Military personnel can be offered a limited level of trust, but I would never trust any of them anywhere near in full. These people are cunning, and too many people want to believe.

As to whether or not John Lear is spreading disinformation... I would say yes, he is -- purposefully. I think he has come to this place to do just that, but not everything he puts forward or supports is a lie.

Originally posted by Nobusuke Tagomi
As to whether or not John Lear is spreading disinformation... I would say yes, he is -- purposefully. I think he has come to this place to do just that, but not everything he puts forward or supports is a lie.

Whats more effective at confusing people/steering them away from the truth? Telling 100% lies, which people pick up on pretty quickly, or about 50-50, as is done with all religions, politics, you name it..

Smoke and mirrors

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
After reading the soul catcher tower.. sorry, but that is bull, and John knows it. Do i think John is an agent though? I honestly don't know, i do not know enough about his history etc to make such a claim.

One question i have not seen anyone ask here, is if he is a "disinfo agent", then why was he promoted to the spotlight he resides in now..what does that tell you about ATS.

John is indeed spreading disinformation. John make a lot of claims about his background that for starters aren't true. For example John sais he's CIA. As far as I can tell, based on research done previously by Mark Farmer, John was US Air Force. However, he did fly CIA support missions in Viet Nam and Southeast Asia between between 1972-1973.

Tim

John is indeed spreading disinformation. John make a lot of claims about his background that for starters aren't true. For example John sais he's CIA. As far as I can tell, based on research done previously by Mark Farmer, John was US Air Force. However, he did fly CIA support missions in Viet Nam and Southeast Asia between between 1972-1973.

Come on, guys. A lot of this is easily researchable. Lear's NEVER said he was CIA. What he HAS said is that he was a contract guy who flew missions FOR the CIA. He's also never claimed to have been in the Air Force. Nor was he.

Ironic that a thread about Lear spreading disinfo can be so full of disinfo about him.

Now there's plenty to crack on about some of Lear's theories. If you have to make up stuff, you really haven't been paying attention.

Originally posted by Nobusuke Tagomi
As to whether or not John Lear is spreading disinformation... I would say yes, he is -- purposefully. I think he has come to this place to do just that, but not everything he puts forward or supports is a lie.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Whats more effective at confusing people/steering them away from the truth? Telling 100% lies, which people pick up on pretty quickly, or about 50-50, as is done with all religions, politics, you name it..

Smoke and mirrors

The point should also be made that someone can have some insight about UFOs and aliens, and still not be right about everything

Dr. Steven Greer of The Disclosure Project is a good example of that. He has access to hundreds of testimonials from insiders about UFOs, extraterrestrials, and a widespread governmental cover-up, but is also way off the mark with his New Age interpretations.

John Lear has refused to open up to us as to why he so strongly believes in the Lunar soul catcher tower. To me that idea strikes of Zetan-alien propaganda. Much like the poor abductees who are brainwashed into thinking that their alien captors have godlike powers.

If the Zetans could read minds, walk through walls, and teleport, I would have been abducted years ago and would have never made it to ATS.

One has to always consider the source. Despite his detractors, John is obviously fairly well versed in science and physics. But I have not seen any indication of any expertise in the areas of metaphysics and spirituality. The soul catcher tower idea falls heavily into the latter categories.

John may be right about the Moon having a partial atmosphere and - which is corroborated by at least one other insider in The Disclosure Project - that there is a large alien base inside the Moon. Photographs of what appear to be artificially constructed structures on the Moon (which have been addressed in ATS) all point to this.

I don't agree with the soul catcher idea. But I also don't think that John is purposely furthering disinformation. He doesn't fit the bill of those that do.

Moreover, I also doubt that even those rare individuals that have the coveted security clearance designation of COSMIC necessarily have all the facts and accurate interpretations either.

It is not just knowing about something. It is also being able to see it clearly in the greater perspective of not only physics but also metaphysics and spirituality.

[edit on 21-5-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

The point should also be made that someone can have some insight about UFOs and aliens, and still not be right about everything

Of course. Nobody is blaming him for not having all the answers -- at least I'm not, anyway.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Dr. Steven Greer of The Disclosure Project is a good example of that. He has access to hundreds of testimonials from insiders about UFOs, extraterrestrials, and a widespread governmental cover-up, but is also way off the mark with his New Age interpretations.

Dr. Steven Greer is also someone I suspect of spreading disinformation. I wrote a thread here explaining why. I'm not sure if he's still doing it, but things he has said in the past certainly make him a suspect, in my opinion.

It's very difficult to put the hostile alien situation in a metaphysical perspective of WHY.

Dr. Steven Greer, with his New Age paradigm, attempts to do precisely that. The danger involved with his appraisal is that it makes the aliens out as our spiritual superiors; this is complete nonsense. No one who uses others for medical experiments and a long-term breeding program is morally superior to anyone.

More like spiritually retarded.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Despite his detractors, John is obviously fairly well versed in science and physics.

As a physicist, I beg to differ! Mr. Lear's grasp of basic concepts of science in general and physics in particular is not anything I'd term "well versed" (to put it mildly!). And if I recall correctly, he even admitted that understanding science and physics are not his strengths.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx
And if I recall correctly, he even admitted that understanding science and physics are not his strengths.

Well, this does bring one question to my mind. Why is John debating topics which (by his own admission) he knows little about?

Tim

John, aint it great, when you start getting closer to the truth the whole world wants to attack you. Why would other individuals keep on and on about gravity on the Moon unless they have an agenda. Could their agenda be trying to make you look bad and who could they be working for the otherside maybe. Who is the otherside your verbal attackers already know.

If the powers to be will go to all costs and lengths to disinform us about what is going on about the Moon. Why would they not send their cronies to disinform against most of what you say? Rik Riley

Originally posted by rikriley
Could their agenda be trying to make you look bad and who could they be working for the otherside maybe. Who is the otherside your verbal attackers already know.

If the powers to be will go to all costs and lengths to disinform us about what is going on about the Moon. Why would they not send their cronies to disinform against most of what you say? Rik Riley

Yeah, John, "Federal Agents! Drop your weapon!"

Originally posted by kleverone

If there were/are clouds on the moon, they would be visible with a telescope. What do you believe more, your eyes looking at a live image of the moon through the telescope or a blurry grainy picture?

Well I would believe my eyes when I look at photos taken by that telescope.

Your confusion is understandable, as clouds on the moon is a rare occurance, not an everyday event, but we will forgive you...

Here is a section of a picture taken by a 36" telescope...



You can see the craters above and left of Endymion...

Here is a second clip from the same telescope a few days apart...



Yes yes I know its a fuzzy picture... Well that would be the point... because the "fuzzyness" is caused by the cloud cover... forget the fuzziness for just a minute... the craters in the previous picture are OBSCURED... And THAT is the point.. you cannot SEE them because they are covered by cloud.

Here is another one that was from the same image, below Endymion... a plume that appears to "top out" when it reaches the upper limit of the atmosphere.



One other factor that many overlook when giving reasons why can't we see the atmosphere is that there is no water vapor in the atmosphere... its water vapor that traps dust etc and diffused light.... there is little in the way of wind, (not counting electrostatic effects) to stir up dust, so any atmosphere on the moon would be pristine and CLEAR

Now here is a dust cloud from the impact of Smart 1... watch as the "wind" blows the dust away...




[edit on 21-5-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by kleverone
Are we not seeing a photo that is looking straight down, that same if we would be viewing from a telescope on earth?

No you are not... that one Undo posted is from Lunar Orbiter in low orbit, with the camera looking forward with a five degree ten minute tilt... effectively you are looking at a "pocket" in the crater rim near the top.

And I am not referring to the commom telescope, I am talking about a observatory style scope.

The last good observatory images of the moon were taken in the 40's by the lick observatory 36" telescope. I wrote a letter to Mt Palomar with the 200 inch telescope and the director told me he has never seen ANY taken by their telescope, nor do they plan to take any... as astronomers prefer the images from the spaceships.

As to "common" telescopes... a good 10" scope with a high grade digital camera can do wonders, as our picture of Aristarchus that is more detailed then the Clementine satellite color image shows.

Many amateur and professional astronomers over the years have reported clouds.

Here is the image undo posted colorized... the brown area shows a rectangular structure with a black center... this image is from LO 2...



below is the same area taken from above and twice as far away from LO 5...

The same rectangular block with the black center...





[edit on 21-5-2007 by zorgon]

[edit on 21-5-2007 by zorgon]