The Vatican and NWO

The Vatican is known as the most powerful and richest organization in the world. Is this the heart of the NWO?

The pope, Benedict (Arnold?), is visiting NYC soon to meet with the U.N.
wcbstv.com...

Now just to point out, a lot has happened in favor of NWO theory during years of pope visitations with the U.N.
www.inthe70s.com...
www.inthe90s.com...

50 year anniversary of U.N. founding? 444 day hostage situation? OKC bombing? Conviction for first WTC bombing?

Anyone?

[edit on 4/28/2007 by Anubis Kanubis]

Greg Syzmanski and his Arcticbeacon.com website have all the Goss on the Jesuit Order controlling the world but I think he gives them too much creedence. Imagine some silly old bugger that wears a dress ( Benedict ) controlling the outcomes of major history ?

Jesuit's, Bildeberger's, Rockerfeller's, Rothchild's, Illuminati, Zionist's, Cabalist's,CFR and Trilateral Commission...ect... the list goes on and on and on. Don't give them the credit that they can truly influence anything and they will go away.

The jesuits have enormous control

z13.invisionfree.com...

www.vaticanassassins.org...

Google Video Link

A candid look at the origins of secret societies such as the illuminati, the freemasons, and the Jesuit Order. What constitutes ... all » freemasonry? What is their agenda? Includes a look at the Skull and Bones Society, the Knights of Columbus, and the well known leaders of our world and their involvement in unseen intrigues.

no surprise here, as Rome will lead the one world religion of the AC
imho

[edit on 6-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

I don't think that it is at the heart of the NWO, but I do think that they are some what involved. Afterall, the Vatican holds some of the biggest secrets in the world, and least that is what most speculation has on to what is really in the secret archives. Since they are super rich as well, they are needed to help control the population. They are a valuable tool in the brain washing of the masses.

Originally posted by golddragnet
The jesuits have enormous control

z13.invisionfree.com...

www.vaticanassassins.org...

Here is a very very good read for you. I was jaw-dropped during this read. They seem to think the Jesuits are behind it also.

www.proliberty.com...

Originally posted by Anonymous Avatar

www.proliberty.com...

Neither Bormann or Gehlen are anywhere in that picture. You can confirm this for yourself simply by looking at pictures of these two, they look nothing (at all) like those pictured. The article itself has some interesting snippets that are worth further study and checking but the photo is definately not what it purports to be so I doubt the veracity of the article in full.

For photos of Bormann and Gehlen

www.thirdreich.net...

en.wikipedia.org...

a good clip worth a look

video.google.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would say thats quite strange.

Maybe a coinsadence ?

an interesting article on the Jesuits.
www.exposingsatanism.org...

What Naploean had to say about the Jesuits is significant

"The Jesuits are a military organization, not a religious order. Their chief is a general of an army, not the mere father abbot of a monastery. And the aim of this organization is POWER. Power in its most despotic exercise. Absolute power, universal power, power to control the world by the volition of a single man...

"The General of the Jesuits insists on being master, sovereign, over the sovereign. Wherever the Jesuits are admitted they will be masters, cost what it may... Every act, every crime, however atrocious, is a meritorious work, if committed for the interest of the Society of the Jesuits, or by the order of the general."

I don't think that the Jesuits are the enemy. Leaders fear Jesuits and I believe that they are as much the victims of a 'hate' campaign of propaganda and lies as are the semitic peoples. Unless the very ideals of the Jesuits have changed, entirely and fundamentally, then I see them as a positive force.

I can accept that there may be division within the Roman Church. My ethnicity is Church of England, you could say I was raised anti-catholic, the more though, that I read about the Jesuits the more I find to admire. What is apparent on close inspection is that much of the Jesuit history has been twisted to suit the aims of those that oppose their ideals.

Those that have power in terms of monetary resources and capitalist empires are at greatest threat from the ideals of the Jesuits. This is why they have been expelled from every country that has fallen to exploitational business practices.

If we accept Lenin's definition of the New World Order as Capitalist Imperialism you can track the expansion of trade to modern day. The industries that were spawned and the empires created. The New World Order was built up on trade: textiles, shipping and currency. This is why Ghandi stripped to his loin cloth; why grow the cotton in India, ship it to Manchester to be processed, only to return it to India as cloth? the Rothschild's initial success was due to the textiles trade. Nathaniel was able to establish the bank through the money he earnt trading textiles in Manchester - import export. The Channel Blockades led him to London and banking. With the connections established by his father and brothers they have become one of the most powerful family trusts in the world and have created independent fortunes.

The Jesuits teach that though personal wealth is acceptable it should not be gained through the labour of others, that you should earn your success. The jesuit beliefs are embroiled in feudalism, but in rarity they choose the other means of leadership described by Machevelli - benevolent dictatorship. The jesuits are of course communists in many respects. This can be clearly seen in the establishment of the Jesuit Republic of Paraguay. As close an example of utopian communism as you will find. The Jesuits refusal to support human trade, at times actively opposed it, but always offering care and ministry to the slaves, eventually led to their expulsion from US.

That said and done I do not know enough about more recent history of the Jesuits (the most recent book I have was published 1930) so there is room for movement in my opinion. For one I don't know how militant they could have become in recent history. The strength of their conviction is apparent in their survival and continued strength, having suffered attack at various times from both the capitalists and the vatican. I'm interested enough to keep reading on the subject. The history of the jesuits demonstrates a real evolution and enlightenment regarding the purpose and meaning of god. If this has indeed been utterly corrupted I will be very sad indeed.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I don't think that the Jesuits are the enemy.

I very much disagree. I suggest you research the Jesuits further, Eric Jon Phelps has published alot about them. You could consider researching the power and influence of the SMOM, through the SMOM the Jesuits pretty much control the world.

Hitler himself stated, "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."

Walter Schellenberg, former chief of Nazi counter-espionage made this statement: "The S.S. organization had been constituted by Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly. Himmler's title as supreme chief of the S.S. was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' 'General' and the whole structure was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order."

Franz von Papen, another powerful Nazi, who was instrumental in setting up the concordat between Germany and the Vatican had this to say: "The Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges but also puts into practice the high principles of the papacy."

I would advise you to research the Jesuits further, you will more than likely be very suprised at how powerful they really are, but then after considering worlds history and the power the Vatican have then it will make sense.



[edit on 11-5-2007 by golddragnet]

I posted this in the Secret Societies Forum but it applies well to this thread.

I have read vast amounts of information about secret societies aiming for a One World Government. Commonly it is referred to as the New World Order or whatever. There have always been a few questions that bugged me about the whole thing.
First of all, what is wrong with a one world government? No more war, no more illegal immigrants. Granted, many nations don't want to join but if they all could be convinced over time, would it be that bad?
My next question is why would evil war loving corporate scamsters want such a thing? With borders and wars there is so much more money to be made.
Now lets look at a wild hypothetical situation.
What would an evil secret society do to prevent the world from ever wanting to come together under one form of government?

1. Sponsor and control a form of united government (UN) that is utterly corrupt and incompetent beyond all reason. Only with intelligent direction could they be so worthless and inept.

2. Foster beliefs in all major religions that a one world government is the work of Satan (or whatever evil dude your religion loves to hate) and evil people are trying to force it upon them.

3. Sponsor rumors and stories in the conspiracy subculture that the evil elite are trying to enslave them all through a one world government.

4. Foster and promote as much hate as possible between nations and religions of the world through war, propaganda and, dare I say, false flag operations.

I am looking around and I don't see the rulers of nations doing much to actually promote a One world Government. It wouldn't take rocket science to invent a plan like this...

Originally posted by golddragnet
I very much disagree.

Now you see I’m wondering if we disagree at all. I simply think that we’re looking at the same thing from different perspectives. I think we certainly hold common ground.

Note that Hitler ‘learned’ from and Himmler utilized the principles not the Jesuits themselves. This is a clear distinction and with this I agree entirely. Every thing about the Nazi structure, religious practice and military order is redolent of Jesuitism. Hitler was drawn to the asceticism of the Jesuits, the struggle and the structural efficiency. Himmler was intrigued in the mysticism of the Exercises as well as all things esoteric. That the same principles and exercises that the Jesuits have developed can be utilized to invoke a new order is more than feasible and by the Third Reich demonstrated. Just because the Nazis used it to commit evil does not mean that the Jesuits have or had the same goal. The Nazis imitated the Jesuits, they were not Jesuits.

Admittedly I still have gaps in my knowledge, I have not as yet read up on SMOM. I do not exclude the possibility that the Jesuits have incredible influence. I do at this point though doubt how effective that power is for the reasons I have already raised. The actions of the SS did not reflect the historical actions or the beliefs of the Jesuits, this point I cannot emphasize enough. Now whether the actions of the SS reflected the aspirations and beliefs of other areas of the Vatican is in my opinion open to debate. There are quite clear instances of collusion between certain section of the Nazi party and the Vatican, there are post-war connections too.

We must also bear in mind that the Koncordant was effectively a double-cross. As soon as it had secured for Hitler the support of the Catholic electorate it was not worth the paper it was written on. The Papist Von Papen also proved useful in later smoothing the anschluss. As he was able to avoid the fate of those who questioned the party, I would guess von Papen was driven by chiefly by self-interest and had no loyalty other than to himself.

We should also bear in mind that the Vatican drop the Jesuits whenever their views conflict. The Jesuits were entirely hearts and minds, not scorched earth and stake-burnings. Obviously from time to time this led to the expulsion of the order from the Church. Only to be readmitted when their methods were again needed, such as in the counter-reformation. The Jesuits first won the hearts and then the minds of their ministries. They were not without fault and mistakes were made. They began to run into real danger though when they first started getting in the way of trade and profiteering. Their history in the Americas is most telling of why they were systematically expelled from every place they settled. I recommend that you study these areas of Jesuit history again and tell me then who is the negative influence.

What I can accept is that through a change in leadership the Jesuits in modernity could be very far removed from the ideals of these early Jesuits. Their beliefs could indeed be manipulated to bad. I think it most likely that there are individuals and organisations that use the same tools as the Jesuits but for political and economic gain.

If using the ideals promoted by Ignatius Loyola the Jesuits are striving for a one world religion then I have to concede that it could be a good thing. I believe that the nature of the Jesuits actually allows for an ecumenical solution that would defy the need for a single religion. I also believe that this is unfortunately impossible given sectarian divisions based on who’s prophet is the true prophet. For, as long as people are waiting for a saviour or any form of external deliverance they are not engaging in the present, they are not seeking a solution to our differences and problems. They are simply striving to ensure that their reality is the only reality. This elitism has helped to create exploitation on every level of virtually every society.

It is as important to be able to recognize what is good as it to know what is bad. I haven’t ruled out anything yet and I will continue my reading on the subject as you suggest. At the moment I see a world that is being controlled and destroyed by a group of people who seek to create a populace that believe in super-heroes, divine intervention and physical resurrection. People who hold these beliefs make for the best work force, they endure their suffering in expectation of saviour, they give up their lives in promise of an after-life, they in short support the materialism of the elite.

All I ask is that you open your mind to the possibility that there is the potential that power can be used for good as well as bad. The Jesuits may have power but does that mean that they use it to do evil? Are they holy or materialistic in their actions? Look beyond what Phelps writes and wonder from what perspective he may be viewing the situation from.

quote]Originally posted by RedPill
I posted this in the Secret Societies Forum but it applies well to this thread.

First of all, what is wrong with a one world government? No more war, no more illegal immigrants. Granted, many nations don't want to join but if they all could be convinced over time, would it be that bad?

My next question is why would evil war loving corporate scamsters want such a thing? With borders and wars there is so much more money to be made.

This is precisely what I am beginning to realise Redpill. ON ALL POINTS. I do think that there is an active movement to remove people from god and what is 'holy'. It is more than that in my eyes, it is trying to turn people away from the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong.

This is why I think that there is so much virulence in the attacks against Masons. The Masons who 'select' on the basis of morality and integrity. To whom are these beliefs a threat?

Who would not benefit from or more importantly would have much to lose, from a one world government based on either Jesuit or Masonic principles? Or dare we say the marriage of the two. (Liberté, égalité, fraternité!!! Shhh)

I am neither Mason or Jesuit, but my instinct tells me that I have little to fear from them. I can accept that these two might form the quasi-mythical illuminati - they are somewhat enlightened and have found a way of perpetuating their ethics. I can find imperfection and be picky but on the whole I can with some confidence say whatever they are, they are good and not evil (IMO).

The current world order, which may or may not be the New World Order (I have days when I haven't a clue???), is all about the accumulation and preservation of capital to attain power and protection. At the high end you have the Capitalist Imperialists at the low end you have the minimum wage worker.

We live in a system where low wages drive the need for cheaper products, which drives the need for cheaper raw materials, which drives the need for cheaper labour. From the very top, right down to the free-loaders in the 'under' class this is free-market gone drastically wrong. An insight into why it may have failed is offered by Ludwig von Mise an Austrian economic historian, he said that markets do not naturally rise and fall, that it is only through manipulation of the market forces that these fluctuation appear. Manipulating financial markets now who would do such a thing?!!? UMM.

These fluctuation cause a widening gap between the classes - not to mention an ever diversifying class system. At the low end you have little economic variability between state dependents and minimum wage earners, the only difference seeming to be your ability to raise credit - thus ensuring low social mobility. There is an analogous connection to slavery in this (IMO!). Very 1984, all automated bureacracy and systemised identity. It is as much about dependancy as it is about control. To use G W Bush's own words a "us and them..". But I digress.

This is a thread about the NWO and the Vatican. I am still not sure about the Vatican, itself. It has in the past done everything in its power to glorify itself as the one true church and it has committed unparalled atrocities. The Crusaders, from which the SMOM owes its origins, were not chivalrous noblemen, they were profiteers pursuing self-interest with the authority of the pope (and therefore god).

The Lordship of Sidon ( somewhere? in modern Lebanon) was created by a crusader. A Lord Sidon later emerges in legends regarding the significance of the skull and bones to the Knights Templar. The same symbol later represents both piracy and the SS. Directly or indirectly, the Vatican certainly spawned private enterprise, commercial slavery and professional , private armies.

The Vatican also has long campaigned to rid Anatolia of muslims, resurrecting these ambitions since the middle of the 1800s with treatise to both Russia and Poland on the suject. They have also saught restitution with the Orthodoxy in Turkey.

While I am willing to go on record as saying that the Jesuits are good, I wouldn't be willing to say the same of the Vatican and I wanted to draw that (very long winded) distinction. I'm becoming increasingly confused as to what people actually mean by NWO. It seems too open to interpretation to be of great fact, but then I don't know....?????

[edit on 13-5-2007 by KilgoreTrout]

[edit on 13-5-2007 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Who would not benefit from or more importantly would have much to lose, from a one world government based on either Jesuit or Masonic principles?

The current world order, which may or may not be the New World Order

In the 1930's and 1940's there was a 1-German government in Germany, you now realise that government was based on Jesuit principles, I hardly need to explain to you who had much to lose in Germany under that German government. Now take that on a global scale and I it becomes unneccasry for me to go into detail why such a government would be a real bad idea.
Take Communist Russia, or todays China, real bad news for the Felun Gong.
A masonic government would favour the masons, hardly fair for the non-masons.

Each country should have a right to self rule, they shouldn't have to be dictated to by a global government.
Just take Britain, there are many Scottish and Welsh who want an independant government, and why shouldn't they, it should be their right to be ruled in their own countries, not ruled from England.

The current world government is most definitely on the New World Order control. The SMOM control almost all Military. Medical, Politics, Banking, Insurance, Finance, Media and Intelligence on the Planet. If you wish to learn more of the NWO control of the world today I would suggest you research the SMOM, Switzerland and the Rome and see the connections.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by golddragnet]

You know that I am not advocating Communism. The Jesuits by their methods carried off a benevolent dictatorship, this is unique and therefore notable. The reasons that they eventually failed are not unique and this is what unites all organisations that promote equality and free will, like the Falun Gong. The inner spiritual quest for the 'third eye' is shared by Jesuits, Falun Gong, Gnostics and Esoterics. The interpretations only differ but do not necessarily conflict.

I do not, as such, support the notion of one world governement or religion, I do though advocate those groups that base their principles on compromise and acceptance of the beliefs of others.

You are partially right in your assessment of SMOM. Surely though, you can see that what you propose is too simple. On what basis is control exerted? What is the chain of command? I cannot just accept that because something has power that it is used for evil or for that matter good. Lack of this assumption, to me, is fundamental.

The ideals of the institution need to be evaluated, as do indescretions and inconsistencies. There has to be appreciation that however powerful the organisation is, that there may be others of greater or equal power. What may seem like an alliance may only be a temporary stalemate.

Though I do not go as far, I find Beriya the most inspiring of models in pursuing these studies. Suspect everyone and eliminate them only when their innocence is proved. I'm not shooting anyone, but on an intellectual level it is a good bench mark to hold.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
You are partially right in your assessment of SMOM. Surely though, you can see that what you propose is too simple. On what basis is control exerted? What is the chain of command? I cannot just accept that because something has power that it is used for evil or for that matter good. Lack of this assumption, to me, is fundamental.

This is why I suggest you research it further, rather than me simply telling you. After researching it I am sure you will correct that statement.

Oh no you don't sunshine, I am not as green as I am cabbage looking. Your rhetoric and re-direction are not going to wash this time!!!

For just a moment, imagine that I have read all that I can find on SMOM and still I don't see what you see. I have found the organisations that they are involved in, the Grand Masters and their connections, their position in the hierarchy of the Roman Church, their history, their ethos and their current incarnation. And yet despite all this I still don't see what you are getting at. For my part, I am always willing to accept that I do not know all that there is to know. I accept that I could be missing something, should that be the case I will willingly and openly admit my error.

It is entirely up to you whether you answer my questions, but at some point you need to put your money where your mouth is and explain what it is that led you to this conclusion. If indeed SMOM has the power you attribute to it, then how does it exercise that power and how does the chain of command work? You are quite obviously opposed to it, so why? As I said entirely up to you whether you answer but in my book the balance of proof is in your hands not mine and no amount of rhetoric is going to change my mind on that one.