U.S. House passes bill requireing troop pullout

U.S. House passes bill requireing troop pullout

www.foxnews.com

WASHINGTON — A sharply divided House brushed aside a veto threat Wednesday and passed legislation that would order President Bush to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq by Oct. 1.

(visit the link for the full news article)

As you can read, despite the fact that Bush has clearly stated he will veto this bill, the House of Representitives decided to pass it anyways. Thanks for screwing the troops, and making it known that pork spending and an arbitrary date is more important than victory. Make sure everyone picks up a carpet from Bob's Carpet Mart on your way home for your new prayer rug, because you just handed them our truce flag.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

The House is responding to what the majority of people want.

No war is justified if the majority of people do not want to be in it.

Originally posted by iori_komei

No war is justified if the majority of people do not want to be in it.

While I agree with your statement above, unfortunatly I also believe that we must finish what we start. Things have gotten a lot better since the change in leadership, at least in what we hear about everyday. My brother in law was killed over there, and I just find it difficult to believe we are just going to get up and walk away, when people like my brother felt strong enough in the cause to lay his life down for it.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold
My brother in law was killed over there, and I just find it difficult to believe we are just going to get up and walk away, when people like my brother felt strong enough in the cause to lay his life down for it.

And that is the reason we need to stop this fight for oil control at the expenses of our loves ones in the middle east.

I am very sorry your brother in law died in Iraq.

The Iraqi invasion and liberation was nothing but a lie fed to the American public to hide the true agenda in the middle east. oil.

The greed and corruption of the present administration in the pursue of private agendas forgot about taking care of the Iraqi nation and allowed it to become what is today.

A lost cause.

But the greed is to much and the need to get the hands on that oil is greater for the Bush administration than the safety of our troops.

The war in congress is just starting.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold
. Thanks for screwing the troops, and making it known that pork spending and an arbitrary date is more important than victory. (visit the link for the full news article)

Just how is it screwing our troops by bringing them home so they can be with their families?

What is "victory" in the middle east? Securing all the oil? How many young American lives is that worth?

[edit on 25-4-2007 by whaaa]

Well the bill does'nt say that all our troops are just going to up and leave,
and we're leaving the region to itself.

What it says is that military contingents, like there are now, can not
further be sent there, and the ones there have to come back.

However, it does allow of the use of smaller amounts of troops for
peacekeeping missions and training the Iraqi military to defend Iraq,
instead of relying on us.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold
Make sure everyone picks up a carpet from Bob's Carpet Mart on your way home for your new prayer rug, because you just handed them our truce flag.

I think your last line shows enough to the rest of the world that this is not and has not ever been about 9-11 or the people that died on 9-11, its about your fear of islam and your imaginary worry about a "caliphate". The only people handing a truce flag will be people like you that think this way...the rest of us think of it as righting a long standing wrong.

There are openings in the IDF...you can go kill all the muslims you want with impunity there. Americans don't just kill people because of their religion, at least we never did until people like you came into power and humiliated and dragged our honor and world respect into the dirt, along with the many innocent dead.

People with your attitude knew all along it was just lies, but this was a great excuse for the majority of you. You are so afraid of the big bad boogeymuslim


I love that..Bobs carpet and get a prayer rug. Thats so pitiful. I hope you sleep with the lights on at night and don't forget to look under your bed.

So what happens if the US pulls out of Iraq and goes home?

It seems to me that the people who hate the US and anything else different from their perverted ideology will just see a victory and a reason to attack us even more! I see many people on ATS talking only about the cost of staying in Iraq - what about the cost of NOT staying?

Originally posted by itguysrule
So what happens if the US pulls out of Iraq and goes home?

It seems to me that the people who hate the US and anything else different from their perverted ideology will just see a victory and a reason to attack us even more! I see many people on ATS talking only about the cost of staying in Iraq - what about the cost of NOT staying?

Well, considering that we are creating many more potential terrorists
by staying there, I think that leaving will reduce the chances of another
attack on the United States.

Lots of people don't like many other countires and thetre ideologies,
but you do not see a terrorist attack in every country every day, week,
month, year or even decade.

Originally posted by itguysrule
So what happens if the US pulls out of Iraq and goes home?

It seems to me that the people who hate the US and anything else different from their perverted ideology will just see a victory and a reason to attack us even more! I see many people on ATS talking only about the cost of staying in Iraq - what about the cost of NOT staying?

I am sure this will delight all of those in the middle east who hate our guts. Listen, is that the sound of dancing in the streets? The airwaves will be flooded with the voices of Osama and Ahmadinejad crowing about their "great and noble victory" over the Great Satan, America. In the meantime our troops will come home to find that no one cares what they went through, "over there", and all the sacrifices and lives lost will be for nothing.

I am not a supporter of the war by any means. I don't believe we should have invaded Iraq, but to leave now before Iraq can even maintain the status quo is insane, IMHO. What do we say to the wives and children and fathers and mothers of those who paid the ultimate price? "Sorry folks, your son's/daughter's/husband's/father's death was in vain and ultimately they died for nothing"?!

I have a son in the military and couldn't stand to lose him in this war, that would be terrible; what would be worse is if he did die and I was told that he died for nothing.

Originally posted by itguysrule
It seems to me that the people who hate the US and anything else different from their perverted ideology will just see a victory and a reason to attack us even more! I see many people on ATS talking only about the cost of staying in Iraq - what about the cost of NOT staying?

You know, that may be true. They may see it as a victory, and they MAY attack us again, but an asteroid may hit us in 25 minutes, making all of this debating just a pedantic diatribe, and scrubbing out the human civilization in one big explosion.

The point here shouldn't be whether we won or lost, as it's not a game. What frustrates me, and most Americans is the fact that this "war", if you can even call it that, was something that could have been avoided.

To use an analogy, if we see a man running around a neighborhood burning houses, do we allow him to just continue to do so because he says that he wants victory over those that kept him from something? No, we arrest the lunatic, charge him with arson, and if he killed anyone, murder. He's tried, and sent to jail for his crime(s). If this same analogy can be accurately applied to the US, as I think it can, then those responsible for requesting and organizing the invasion are guilty of hundreds of thousands of deaths. What punishment is equal to that? How can you punish someone that doesn't feel emotionally attached to the situation?

There was NO CAUSE for our going over there, nor is there any cause for our continued presence there, aside from the imminent invasion of Iran, but that's a red herring that I'm not interested in debating right now. It's also possible that there's something that the powers that be aren't telling us, and I'm going to go with that, since it's the only thing that makes this whole messed up situation make any sense. What must it be? I think it's something to do with the lowering standards all over the world, and the seeming approach of a unified currency.

Anyway, to reference my first paragraph, if/when we do leave Iraq, if the terrorists think they've won anything, and push for an attack on our shores again(??), then they may want to remember what happened the first time we got attacked. We dropped two little bombs that killed over 250,000 people. The bombs have only gotten better over the course of these past 60 years, and I'm sure that if pushed hard enough, we'd use em again, else what's the point in having them? Passive resistance? More like ominous warning to all that might oppose us.

Do I advocate the use of nuclear weapons on anyone? Not at all. I'm merely stating the obvious; that technology advances whether we want it to or not.

Unfortunately for us, this kind of technology is investigated by the people at the top because they like the idea of pushing people around like pawns on a chess board, for the sole purposes of dominance. At least that's my opinion on it anyway.

TheBorg

Originally posted by itguysrule

It seems to me that the people who hate the US and anything else different from their perverted ideology will just see a victory and a reason to attack us even more! I see many people on ATS talking only about the cost of staying in Iraq - what about the cost of NOT staying?

I'd like to ask you a question in regards to your perverted ideology idea. Do you consider people that hate us, that never hated us before but only because we killed their friends, family and neighbors as having a perverted ideology? Do you class all Iraqi citizens as being perverted in their ideology if they have a newfound hatred for us? How well would you love, say the Chinese if they decided to come here and free us from democracy and killed your son, daughter, wife,mother or father? Would that mean if you hated them that you have a perverted ideology?
Don't expect people to love you after you kill them, bring even more strife then they had before,burn the skin off their children (Phosphour), knowingly use weapons (Depleted Uranium) that will give their children and family cancer in the years to come as well as contaminate their water and agriculture. Maybe its they who should think that we have the perverted ideology. We also attracted to them something they never had there before....Al-queda.

Yes they should be thanking us.

Mods: Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to keep these two ideas separated.

Originally posted by Stormrider
I am not a supporter of the war by any means. I don't believe we should have invaded Iraq, but to leave now before Iraq can even maintain the status quo is insane, IMHO.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But please remember that when we fought for our independence, we did so pretty much solo. True, we had help from France and other countries, but that's just because they offered to help. The Iraqi people have had 3 years, 3 YEARS, to learn how to protect their own country. How long does it take to train people to train others, and to lead a supporting role in security? Besides, do we need over 100,000 troops for that? I think, at the very least, we need to dramatically scale back the numbers of troops over there, as it will cut down on our casualties. Let the Iraqis run things for themselves for once. They'll never learn how if we won't let them try.

What do we say to the wives and children and fathers and mothers of those who paid the ultimate price? "Sorry folks, your son's/daughter's/husband's/father's death was in vain and ultimately they died for nothing"?!

Well, the truth is the truth. We didn't have to be in this war; you said that much yourself. The point here is not a matter of winning/losing, it's now a matter of saving face, and saving as many of our soldier's lives as we can. Don't lose sight of that. The numbers don't lie, and I wouldn't ask anyone to go over there for anything, even gas.

I have a son in the military and couldn't stand to lose him in this war, that would be terrible; what would be worse is if he did die and I was told that he died for nothing.

Well, as much as I would hate to see anymore people die in this war, if we stay, those numbers will only rise. About 90% of the US Soldier deaths that I see everyday on the news are younger than I am, and I'm only 25. I see all of these people, younger than me, giving their lives for what? What's so important that they need to be sacrificing everything they have? I see nothing over there that merits our presence, even our initiated war. If the Iraqi people want freedom, then they need to stand up and take it, or it won't matter how long we remain there; when we leave, the oppressive regimes will just come back. It's all a matter of how badly they want it.

It's my contention that we don't need to be there anymore, as can be witnessed by my past two posts. I only aim to save more of my soldier's lives, as they're MY brothers and sisters as well. I love them just like anyone else, and don't want them to be hurt, which is why I want them home.

TheBorg

Originally posted by Stormrider

I am sure this will delight all of those in the middle east who hate our guts. Listen, is that the sound of dancing in the streets? The airwaves will be flooded with the voices of Osama and Ahmadinejad crowing about their "great and noble victory" over the Great Satan, America. In the meantime our troops will come home to find that no one cares what they went through, "over there", and all the sacrifices and lives lost will be for nothing.

Why shouldn't they celebrate. Would you rather have to deal with insurgents with sniper rifles, automatic weapons, ieds AND ALSO American forces with Helicopters, tanks, Fighter jets with missiles and bombs, soldiers with automatic weapons, grenades, cannons? I'd be pretty damn relieved to just have to deal with the insurgents, at least they have a fighting chance and the innocents won't be caught in a crossfire between americans and insurgents/militants.

If we are not there how would accusations be made that these people are working for the american forces? This is a big problem right now and the reason for a lot of executions taking place. I think our leaving would relieve a lot of pressure on the people that are just looking to get things started and get their country back on its feet.

Originally posted by itguysrule
...what about the cost of NOT staying?

Hmmm...I'd have to say that the "cost" of not staying would be that our Federal Troops would be better able to help guard our National Borders against more terrorists entering unopposed & give aid to the federal Immigration Services to round up the illegal immigrants (which is a good way for terroists to "hide" themselves) for deportation...Which would also closer be in line with the "provide for the Common Defense" clause in the Preamble of the Constitution.


We've got problems over *here* that more directly & immediately need "national defense" than over there anyway. Let's put the duct tape in the right place...Where we need to hold things together long enough for repairs to begin.

theres a civil war going on with a common target - take away to common target and the shia and suuni *factions* will go back to bashing each other


which btw was another reason why sadam was good for country - at least he kept them apart (yes with force)

but maybe now you can see why he had to use force huh

the kurds? there allready fighting the other factions for teritory - am waiting for the first wispers of mass killings by them to start across the airwaves tbh.

the US troops arn`t going anywhere - not for another 5 years at least - as someone said - the war in congress is on just starting.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold


As you can read, despite the fact that Bush has clearly stated he will veto this bill, the House of Representitives decided to pass it anyways. Thanks for screwing the troops, and making it known that pork spending and an arbitrary date is more important than victory. Make sure everyone picks up a carpet from Bob's Carpet Mart on your way home for your new prayer rug, because you just handed them our truce flag.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I find it hard to believe that anybody still has this mentality. How many more people have to die to line the pockets of the oil rich.

This is not about terrorism it never has been. wake up.

first 9/11 let us in afghanistan because the al qaida was apparently based there, then all of the sudden sadaam was hiding the WMD's in Iraq, so we had to cruise by there... now we never found the WMD's, Osama, and terrorists groups still exist... so the new goal is to bring structure to the region.

you know, the middle east has been insane with war and religious issues for THOUSANDS of years, but i guess solving problems like that is just another day in the life of a true american. =)

just think, maybe another 50+ years over there and there won't be anyone left alive who hates us in the middle east (possibly no one left alive). then we can finally claim victory and bring the survivors, i mean troops, home.

america saves the world tour, coming to a country near you with lots of ammunition.

[imagine if all the time, money and effort went to something with a more acheivable and realistic goal, like feeding a starving child or something]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by Stormrider

I am sure this will delight all of those in the middle east who hate our guts. Listen, is that the sound of dancing in the streets? The airwaves will be flooded with the voices of Osama and Ahmadinejad crowing about their "great and noble victory" over the Great Satan, America. In the meantime our troops will come home to find that no one cares what they went through, "over there", and all the sacrifices and lives lost will be for nothing.

Why shouldn't they celebrate. Would you rather have to deal with insurgents with sniper rifles, automatic weapons, ieds AND ALSO American forces with Helicopters, tanks, Fighter jets with missiles and bombs, soldiers with automatic weapons, grenades, cannons? I'd be pretty damn relieved to just have to deal with the insurgents, at least they have a fighting chance and the innocents won't be caught in a crossfire between americans and insurgents/militants.

I wasn't referring to dancing in the streets of Baghdad, I was talking about celebrations in places like Damascus, Amman & Tehran. I don't believe that the majority of Iraqis will be happy to see us go, after all the devil you know is always better than the one you don't. Would you still be relieved to deal with those insurgents if you knew their agenda was to eventually reinstate the same type of dictatorship you knew before but under a different name, like Assad or Ahmadinejad?

If we are not there how would accusations be made that these people are working for the american forces? This is a big problem right now and the reason for a lot of executions taking place. I think our leaving would relieve a lot of pressure on the people that are just looking to get things started and get their country back on its feet.

No, the majority of the Iraqi deaths are the result of Sunni vs Shia relgious hatred which will only intensify once we are gone and there is no one to keep any sort of security, no matter how tenuous. All of the government and social infastructure that we have spent the last 5 years buiding and helping with will be torn down by the new occupying forces; think things are tough for the Iraqi people now? Just wait.