How Does The Usa Block Africa's Sucess

Dear Astyanax,

All i did was post up the link of an article.

please direct your comments toward the article and not me, Thank you very much.

All i did was Post an article so please don't act like i wrote it thanks :0



[edit on 24-4-2007 by selfless]

That's a mature attitude Selfless. We try to argue against the article and you take it personally and then take your ball and go home. If you don't want to discuss something then why post it on a Discussion Board.

You say that you don't believe the US is causing all of Africa's problems, but yet on Page 1 you said "I just want people to be aware of what's really happening in Africa." How are we SUPPOSED to think when you say something like that? It sure sounds like you agree with the article.

[edit on 4/24/2007 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
That's a mature attitude Selfless. We try to argue against the article and you take it personally and then take your ball and go home. If you don't want to discuss something then why post it on a Discussion Board.

That is correct, a mature way of avoiding useless bickering, i am tired of it and the mature thing to do is to stop it.

Originally posted by Zaphod58

You say that you don't believe the US is causing all of Africa's problems, but yet on Page 1 you said "I just want people to be aware of what's really happening in Africa." How are we SUPPOSED to think when you say something like that? It sure sounds like you agree with the article.

[edit on 4/24/2007 by Zaphod58]

I know USA is causing problems to Africa but that doesn't mean it's the only contributors out there however the article was about USA's contributions not Russia or China.

And yes people's been responding to me in regard of the article, I did not write the article, i simply read it like anyone else and wanted to share it but unfortunately people made it out to be some argument that i am the one who says USA are the only ones who contributes to Africa's problems but i said over and over again I KNOW USA ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES CAUSING PROBLEMS but yet people still brought it up like i thought it that way and they kept bickering at me about me being wrong of thinking a way i don't even think like in the first place.

Ats can some times be misleading, like in this thread.... it all could have been avoided if people realized that i never said USA are the only contributors of the problem.

You might not have, but you certainly appeared to agree with the article. Every single post that you erased talked about how Africa was being made into a slave continent, and you never talked about anyone else doing it. If you're going to APPEAR to agree about something you better either be prepared to stand by it, or actually come out and SAY you don't agree with the article. If you don't say "I don't think that the US is the only one doing this" you're going to keep right on having people think that you DO think that from the way you were posting.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
If you don't say "I don't think that the US is the only one doing this" you're going to keep right on having people think that you DO think that from the way you were posting.

But i did say that more then once...

And yes i do think Africa is victim of exploitation.

But I am not forcing anyone to think Africa is victim of exploitation, that's for individuals to judge.

Also,

I would like to point out that the tittle of this thread is actually the tittle of the article so i think i see now why this argument came to be, sorry.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by selfless]

I think your reaction to my post, and -- most tellingly -- your refusal to address the substance of it makes your own feelings and position quite clear. There is really nothing more for a sensible person to say to you.

Poor, poor Africa.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
I think your reaction to my post, and -- most tellingly -- your refusal to address the substance of it makes your own feelings and position quite clear.
[edit on 24-4-2007 by Astyanax]

My reaction to your post was due to you telling me something TO ME that was actually concerning the ARTICLE and i did not write the article, i simply read it.

Refuse to address it? i had no intentions to argue about any of this to begin with, i thought it would have been possible to simply post up a reading material with out taking the backlash of it, i was wrong.

A sensible person don't associate the reading context with someone who didn't write it.



[edit on 24-4-2007 by selfless]

Originally posted by selfless
And yes i do think Africa is victim of exploitation.

Yes, Africa has certainly been a victim of exploitation.

But the exact same thing can be said of the United States and Canada. Remember, we were both colonies of the United Kingdom at one time and viewed as just a source for raw materials, etc.

Somehow, however, the U.S. found the balls to declare our independence long ago and become a world player in our right then later, after World War II, a real superpower only after a couple of centuries.

Canada took a different path and remained loyal to the Crown, yet still found relative independence much later, and while not a world military power, is very successful economically with a high standard of living.

We both have had our share of problems and secretarianism, but in the end, we've all been able to sort them out more often than not over time.

This hasn't happened in Africa. Slavery among rival tribes still flourishes there. Brutal political killings are still rampant. And they have always been rampant.

You simply can't blame that on the United States. Even Europe, which certainly has had a far more deleterious effect, can not be blamed soley either.

Most of Africa's problems are still in ancient rivalries between a myriad of fractured tribes who seem to be incapable of uniting to form a single powerful culture.

Perhaps displacement of tribal culture by infusion of western pop culture may end up changing this, but it'll be a slow transformation due to very limitations imposed by Africas fundamental infrastructural problems.

[edit on 4/24/2007 by djohnsto77]

selfless, if u go and erase all the posts on the first page in which u say AMERICA is causing the problems in africa and the attack Zaph for pointing this out, what are u trying to do? i really dont understand it. u say people can form their own opinons and that is exactly what the posters in this thread have done along with posting relivent information that contradicts the article u posted. thats the point of ATS to DENY IGNORANCE. if u post an article with no factual backing and then expect people to not point this out u may need to reevaluate ur thoughts. there are other people who read this thread and dont post and the people who have responded are doing them a favor my showing both sides of the issues which is why ats is here.

This is my opinion on africas point at the moment, Africa is screwed, USA and UK and loads of others have givin it money with a massiva intrest for them to pay back and they have a corupt goverment so there never going to get out of it

Take Care, Vixion

Originally posted by gatch333
selfless, if u go and erase all the posts on the first page in which u say AMERICA is causing the problems in africa and the attack Zaph for pointing this out, what are u trying to do? i really dont understand it. u say people can form their own opinons and that is exactly what the posters in this thread have done along with posting relivent information that contradicts the article u posted. thats the point of ATS to DENY IGNORANCE. if u post an article with no factual backing and then expect people to not point this out u may need to reevaluate ur thoughts. there are other people who read this thread and dont post and the people who have responded are doing them a favor my showing both sides of the issues which is why ats is here.

Yes i do think USA have some blame in this, i don't hide that but i said several times that it's not just USA who's to blame but the article is about USA and the tittle of the thread is actually the tittle of the article, it was not meant to mean that USA are the only ones to blame.

Reason why i deleted all my posts was because i kept repeating my self over and over again just like i am doing in this post right here and to be honest i am tired of arguing, i don't come on here for arguments... that's what trolls do.

By all means say what you wish about the article but leave it about the article.

I am not the article.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by selfless]

I love you all, take care everyone. :0

I wonder if there were also Economic Hitmen active on the African continent???

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I wonder if there were also Economic Hitmen active on the African continent???

Indeed there were. See Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Also the book by Pakenham I mentioned in my earlier post.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
So instead of people being greedy and keeping the money made from these natural resources, and not putting it back into developing their countries, the Evil United States is somehow responsible for this? Right. Why is the United States responsible for all of the worlds problems? Why would the US want to keep Africa poor? It would make more sense for them to want to help develop their resources in return for some kind of preferred nation status, or exclusive agreement. There's no benefit for the US to keep them fighting and keep them from developing their resources.

I especially enjoyed the part about how it's apparently the US' responsibility to GIVE the world technology to help them.

I hate to point this out to whoever wrote this, but a VERY large portion of the weapons going to Africa come from RUSSIAN sources, and are RUSSIAN built, not US.

[edit on 4/23/2007 by Zaphod58]

Haha......... America didn't want to keep Africa poor, but America needs to feed themselves, America are poor if they don't go robbing the world.
Nobody is buying America's product, really. In my place, only 1 or 2 % products are made in America, the rest are from Japan, China, Europe and others. I can call Windows and Intel only are American hehehe.

America is not giving world technology, it is SELLING, American lives on robbing and selling useless and inhumanity technology, i.e. war technology.
Financial Help is actually with high INTEREST! And they call it help. America or at least the government is blood sucking leeches.

It is true that most weapons goes to Africa and Middle East are from Russia.

IT IS BETTER TO SEE AFRICAN and MIDDLE EAST to fight back with weapons instead of bare hand.

I better see they fight against American with weapon instead of bare hand. Can you imagine a war between American Troop with complete weaponry against African bare hands?
If I am Russia I will support fully Africans, I can't stand to see them killed by Americans.

The whole premise of that article is stupid and extremely wrong. I have lived in Africa, the US gives economic aid and food than any other country to Africa.

There were Americans there to give economic aid, health professionals, Peace Corps, IT workers helping them improve communications. etc

What keeps Africa poor? Tribalism , corruption, language barriers, civil wars, illiteracy, I could go on and on.

Look at Nigeria. With the amount of oil wealth, that country should not be poor at all. But corruption is so embedded into their culture, their will always be poverty there.

Originally posted by firepilot
The whole premise of that article is stupid and extremely wrong. I have lived in Africa, the US gives economic aid and food than any other country to Africa.
There were Americans there to give economic aid, health professionals, Peace Corps, IT workers helping them improve communications. etc
What keeps Africa poor? Tribalism , corruption, language barriers, civil wars, illiteracy, I could go on and on.
Look at Nigeria. With the amount of oil wealth, that country should not be poor at all. But corruption is so embedded into their culture, their will always be poverty there.

I agree that the US is not the sole culprit, but I don't agree with much else. I have also read that the US gives more aid than any other nation, but it does not give the most 'per capita' if I recall. Being the richest nation, it is only fair they give more. As far as the other points, I disagree. The history of western exploitation and manipulation is well-documented. How many millions of Africans were shipped off to the US to be slaves? The economic benefit they provided to the US was substantial, and Africa lost the manpower at the same time. Corruption is how much more embedded into Nigeria's culture than other parts of the world? In Nigeria's case, oil companies are making lots of money from their oil. It is only the locals who had their land taken, and who were sometimes killed for it, like Ken Saro-Wiwa, that are left with nothing.
Imho, Africa being to blame is like blaming the victim. Every western nation and company rapes her, and she is to blame for being a mess?

And who sold the Africans into slavery to begin with? Their fellow Africans.

And what's your point with that? In virtually every continent there were slaves sold before. The problem is and stays the raping and pillaging of the countries of that continent by colonial and then corporate interests.

For example IMHO Apartheid in South Africa was caused mainly by the racist people in charge there in the beginning of the diamond industry. Cecil Rhodes is one of the main players in that. And guess what... In the beginning he was backed financially by the Rothschilds.