Proof That God Does Not Exist ! (updated)

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!"- Arthur Conan Doyle 1859-1930

the technology outside does not pertain, only inside can the answer be found, ask the heart what it knows, god exists if it is chosen, fear not and watch love unfold, go to light lost souls

As for your "Strike one" you sound like a child going "But how could God get there if there was nothing to make hiiimm?? Who created Gooodd??" Idiot, we've all wondered this before. If this is your logic, then how did the materials that made up earth come about!?!? How did they get here? They were always here, before nothing? If that's your rational, then there is no Earth either, it could'nt have come from nothing either.

About strike two: God needed a way to communicate with his creations did he not? Oh, and next time you decide to attempt to destroy a faith, research it a little. This will help you not sound like a moron.

Just noticed, your strike 1 and 3 sound really similar. Something can't come out of nothing is what they both boil down to.

Yeah, sorry to post again so soon. I guess I should read the whole thing before posting. Maybe if you would have looked into it, you would know that God didn't create lucifer as his enemy... Nor is lucifer something for him to "play with" I think even most 6 year olds know that the devil is just a fallen angel.

The argument regarding whether or not God exist has to do with you personal belief in the question, �Is there order in all things real or imagined?� If the answer is yes, whether you say it or not, you believe in God. If the answer is no, then you believe in chaotic happen stance (No God). Some sages will say that the fact you have this choice in the first place, makes God an apparent fact.

Also understand that the allegorical stories in the bible are what they are, stories about people trying to understand God. The stories are not really about God so much as they are about people and their quest for God�s wisdom.

Religions serve their purpose when those religions serve the people who believe in them. Religions unto themselves are not causally connected to God. That is to say, a particular religion did not cause God to exist for the sake of that religion. However, it is entirely possible for God to cause a religion to exist if you first believe in God, but that would of course make you have to choose that God exist. Christianity, (followers of Jesus, son of Daivd, King of the Jews) did not exist until after Jesus was already crucified. Technically speaking, Jesus never met a Christian. But lots of people met Jesus, and subsequently believed in his wisdom and that he was God incarnate. So they built a church based on his life and teachings. This unto itself was proof of a revolution in man�s understanding of the world. So people chose to believe, some did not. It does not change the fact that Jesus did what he did for people and it does not relegate the fact of his life to the world. That is to say, all the Christian churches could disappear tomorrow, but it would not change the fact that Jesus lived in the first place and who is to say that it was not part of his plan in the big picture of the world.


[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Keena]

Originally posted by Keena
The argument regarding whether or not God exist has to do with you personal belief in the question, �Is there order in all things real or imagined?� If the answer is yes, whether you say it or not, you believe in God. If the answer is no, then you believe in chaotic happen stance (No God). Some sages will say that the fact you have this choice in the first place, makes God an apparent fact.

Also understand that the allegorical stories in the bible are what they are, stories about people trying to understand God. The stories are not really about God so much as they are about people and their quest for God�s wisdom.

Religions serve their purpose when those religions serve the people who believe in them. Religions unto themselves are not causally connected to God. That is to say, a particular religion did not cause God to exist for the sake of that religion. However, it is entirely possible for God to cause a religion to exist if you first believe in God, but that would of course make you have to choose that God exist. Christianity, (followers of Jesus, son of Daivd, King of the Jews) did not exist until after Jesus was already crucified. Technically speaking, Jesus never met a Christian. But lots of people met Jesus, and subsequently believed in his wisdom and that he was God incarnate. So they built a church based on his life and teachings. This unto itself was proof of a revolution in man�s understanding of the world. So people chose to believe, some did not. It does not change the fact that Jesus did what he did for people and it does not relegate the fact of his life to the world. That is to say, all the Christian churches could disappear tomorrow, but it would not change the fact that Jesus lived in the first place and who is to say that it was not part of his plan in the big picture of the world.


[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Keena]

That is a very insightful post there keena, i tend to agree with your viewpoints. I dont think Jesus would like the direction everything went in after he was gone. I also think that he was a mortal man, albeit a VERY charismatic and inspiring mortal man, who's every trait and deed were embellished throughout numerous retellings and rewritings of his story.

but believe whatever you want, everybody, its not my place to tell others what is right or wrong, otherwise i'd be george w. bush.

-Durandal

Proof that God does not exist...
It's pretty weird to me that someone who truly thinks that God does not exists spends this amount of time rambling about it.
Is your goal to keep others from "living in a dream"?

To me your very post is another proof that God does exist, and that there is also an opposite side (call it satan for what you like) that has the ability to influence minds like your mind is influenced right now.

Your story about time and space and energy and human made laws is pretty poor. God created all laws we know, but He is not part of his own creation.
In fact I don't think we have found out half of the laws that God made for the universe we live in, applying the few laws and rules we have found back to Him is almost hilarious. God is not bound by time or space.
This only is too much for me to contain, which is pretty understandable because (surprise) I am not God.
I am human and therefore I must not constantly try to contain the entity "God".
All I know is that He exists and that He is willing to lower Himself to talk to me and love me, even though I don't really deserve it.

Originally posted by Jakko
It's pretty weird to me that someone who truly thinks that God does not exists spends this amount of time rambling about it.

Perhaps we are all just annoying people that enjoy arguing! People argue because they either feel powerfully for or against an issue. What you said can be turned around into, "If you already know that god exists then why do you feel threatened into feeling the need to argue and waste your time?" Both sides are equally valid.

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Jakko
It's pretty weird to me that someone who truly thinks that God does not exists spends this amount of time rambling about it.

Perhaps we are all just annoying people that enjoy arguing!

People argue because they either feel powerfully for or against an issue. What you said can be turned around into, "If you already know that god exists then why do you feel threatened into feeling the need to argue and waste your time?" Both sides are equally valid.

Not really, if I would have to initiate discussions about all things that I do not believe in I could spend the rest of my life doing only that.

There is no proof that there is a God, but then again as you said there is no proof that there is one either.

One must realize God seeks faith. I don't have faith that 1 + 1 = 2, because I know its true.

If God walked around curing the sick and cleaning up the absolute mess we've made of the world(and I think it would be a waste of space mentioning it all), we would know there's a God exactly the same way we know simple math equations.

BUT, believing in God when there is no evidence, when everybody tries to convince you otherwise and when it seems as if you are totally alone - THAT IS FAITH.

Most people blame God for the state the world is in, and now they think they are "stricking back" at Him by trying to convince themselves and others He doesnt exist. Its easier to live in the false hope that you don't have to answer for all the BS you've done because you don't believe in a God.

There's an old saying for this kind of "syndrome" and that is : There are NO atheists in shark infested waters.

Consider for a moment - If the big bang is true, why did live have to develop? Tht very fact doest make sense, WHY? only to move in a endless cycle of birth, growth and death. Everything in nature fits together so perfectly, I cant for a moment not believe there's a God.

lilblam,


Look, you are probably a good ole boy with too much time on your hands so I will give you a break here. It really is simple. No, you can't prove the exsistance of God using your(our) primitive educational concepts. The truth: God created Science and everything else for that matter. The problem is that our intelligence has not caught up with the Science He has created. We only understand a tiny fraction of true knowledge. Therefore, the huge gap that remains causes people like yourself to doubt when really what you are experiencing is a lack of wisdom which comes from knowledge which is derived from information. So, where am I going? Faith is the key. It is something that can not be explained. A person either has it or they don't. If you don't you surely can't understand it and those who have it can not understand it either. Sounds crazy I know. Bottom line brother is I feel ya, we all have questions that can't be answered, God knows I do. But, I relax and take life one day at a time and just enjoy it. God is really like a Cosmic watchmaker or crafter of a fine auto such as Ferrari. I mean that with complete respect to God also. You see common sense tells us that something that is created must have a creator. So, just as a hand crafted Ferrari has a precision hand working on it so does a human being have a precision hand working to create Him/Her. To me faith is really common sense and as we can see today there seems to be a drastic shortage of it in our world today. Too many booked learned PHD types that have no common sense or real world relatability. It is very sad. Get the dang kids out of the house and make them play outside. Stupid video games.... Anyway, lilbam I greatly respect your opinion as a person even though I don't agree. Lastly look at this. You can only prove there is no GOD if you understand everything about everything. Then and only then can you justly formulate an opinion on the subject. You can't reverse that on me though because Faith bridges that gap my brother. Listen, I will pray that God gives you the faith you need to see what your mind can not see. Your friend.


Jason

I suggest you read GODELS PROOF in matematics that nothing can be proved!!!!!

Ok liblam if you so strongly belive there is no God then answer me this; how did everything come to be?

Ok liblam if you so strongly belive there is no God then answer me this; how did everything come to be?

Again, this is brought up. Nothing came to be; it always was. Therefor, nothing is/was created, and to our best knowledge, destroyed. Keep in mind that this is just conjecture supported by evidence. Also, keep in mind that you're arguments are just conjecture without evidence.
And do feel free to ask me for a proof that God as described in the Christian Bible does not exist, for I freely offer many, and will post them on this board if I need to.
One final thing to think about is: there is no way to disprove something that is a proof, but many ways to prove an error in logic. Think about this post. Does it shake your faith, your blind "intuition"?

Please!!!! Blah, Blah, Blah....... Wrong, everything has not always been. God has always been. Everything else had a beginning.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Enlightened]

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Enlightened]

Ecc 7:11 "Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing and benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter.....
Consider what God has done:
Who can straighten what He has made crooked? When times are good, be happy; But when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other. Therefore, a man cannot discover anything about his future."
10:1: "As dead flies give perfume a bad smell, so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor."
Mark 7:20 "What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within , out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, thefts, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean"
Mark 9:35 Jesus said "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."
Rom 3:10 "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless."
Rom 3:21 "But now, a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through redemption that came by Christ Jesus. "
Rom 8 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."
Rom 9:18 "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
9:21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"
What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the objects of His wrath-prepared for destruction? What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the objects of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory..."

Why is it that most atheists are so incredibly preoccupied with the need to prove that something doesn't exist that they don't beleive in in the first place? It would seem to indicate to me that they, deep down inside, do in fact believe. Since I'm not an atheist I can't claim to know what their beliefs are but it may be logicaal to assume that they may be fiercly angry with God for some reason or their own ego and "knowledge" gets in the way of believing.

The fact is -GOD DOES EXIST! He created the universe as we know it. Matter cannot create matter, thus the universe was created by something outside the universe, God. Everything that occurs in the universe is caused by some event. Creation however goes back to the uncaused cause.

Originally posted by RedDragon

Ok liblam if you so strongly belive there is no God then answer me this; how did everything come to be?

Again, this is brought up. Nothing came to be; it always was. Therefor, nothing is/was created, and to our best knowledge, destroyed. Keep in mind that this is just conjecture supported by evidence. Also, keep in mind that you're arguments are just conjecture without evidence.
And do feel free to ask me for a proof that God as described in the Christian Bible does not exist, for I freely offer many, and will post them on this board if I need to.
One final thing to think about is: there is no way to disprove something that is a proof, but many ways to prove an error in logic. Think about this post. Does it shake your faith, your blind "intuition"?

No! Life has not always been there, the Earth has not always been there, Jupiter has not always been there, NOTHING has ALWAYS been there! It was created. Now you might ask where did God come from, or who, or what created him? The answer to this is that God doesnt want you to know.