Federal Officials: At Least 32 Dead After Virginia Tech University Shooting

Originally posted by infinite
Has the President given his statement yet?

I heard he was about to make one.

In Washington, the House and Senate observed moments of silence for the victims and President Bush was reportedly "horrified" by news of the attacks.

"His thoughts and prayers are with them, and we are monitoring the situation," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

CNN

You have voted Muaddib for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month

You said it very well.

Flyer

You're comparing apples to oranges. Americans have had a long established right to own guns. It's part of our heritage. It's not an easy thing to disarm millions of Americans. It could lead to anarchy and our government knows it. We tried prohibition once and it lead to the rise of organized crime. If we give up our guns the black market for weapons will increase a thousand fold.

You just can't compare the two countries on this issue.

Peace

Originally posted by Realtruth
Right Here

Guns Thread Debate

For some reason i can't post there, the post icons are gone from that link.

Originally posted by Muaddib
We are really going off a tangent, but i can't control myself to responding when some people use these events to try to impose on others their "self righteousness" and their "thoughts on gun control"....

Using this event?

Get grip. I am entitled to express an opinion and I've said that gun control can help to cut down gun crime and incidents like this. I don't recall demanding gun control, I've only expressed how I felt it was a good thing.

If you don't agree with me, fine. But don't dare accuse me of using an event just to express an opinion, got it?

[edit on 16-4-2007 by infinite]

President will address the country at 4:15PM EST

reported on FNC

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Realtruth
Right Here

Guns Thread Debate

For some reason i can't post there, the post icons are gone from that link.

Probably not logged in as you need to log into BTS/PTS separately.

[edit on 16/4/2007 by enjoies05]

Originally posted by infinite
Has the President given his statement yet?

You know, the last thing I want to hear right now is President Bush. This is a matter for the state of Virginia and Virginia Tech, not the President. All he's gonna do is milk the situation. Please save your breath Mr. President.

Oh I know, we the sheeple are waiting in earnest for his great words of comfort during this very trying time in our history.

Peace

[edit on 16-4-2007 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by infinite
If you don't agree with me, fine. But don't dare accuse me of using an event just to express an opinion, got it?

Oh i see, so "you" can express your opinion and I can't?...

Tell you what, I did not insult you but yes, you among some others are using this to impose your views on gun control and "self righteousness", and i can say whatever I damn please, more so when i have not broken any forum rules, because I also got rights to express my opinion...got it?...


[edit on 16-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Try this it's at PTS Social issues

www.abovepolitics.com...

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Realtruth
Right Here

Guns Thread Debate

For some reason i can't post there, the post icons are gone from that link.

Originally posted by enjoies05
Probably not logged in as you need to log into BTS/PTS separately.

Yeah,
need to log in to be able to post

Originally posted by DocGonzo

Originally posted by rai76
Well good for you that you know the difference, but a lot of people don't and that is why there are still so many killings everyday. What is wrong with the good old boxing ball to loose some aggression ? These days it's not enough anymore, we need to kill to feel good, although it's virtualy, accept this time it happened in real life. Speaking about virtual.....isn't it that a lot of people in virtual games pretending to be someone they are not in real life but wish to be?

Exactly....why is it that a growing number of Americans are blurring the lines between reality and fantasy,so much so that other peoples lives are seen as worthless things that can be taken away on a whim.Yes,some people try to be something they aren't in the virtual world,but as long as they keep it there I see no harm in it.Come on.....did we see a wave of people tying up guys in bathtubs and using a chainsaw on them after Scarface came out? Not that I know of. The point is,like I said before,something is changing in our mentality as a whole as it relates to the value of human life.

I understand perfectly what you say. My answer is that it is the result of the world we have created ourselves throughout the tools that are a presented to us everyday again and again. That is why a growing number of people think it is normal and the society becomes harder and harder.

As for the killings in movies you describe it is obviously that they are also copied in real life.

I have said repeatedly on various threads that I am not opposed to guns, I just don't personally like them. At the same time I see nothing wrong with good, strong and enforced gun control laws... none of which I have seen are unreasonable.... waiting period? Fine. I would worry about the person who can't wait. Background check? No problem. Purchase limit per month? Who really needs except for gun dealers needs to buy a lot of guns at one time? Most of the good and decent people I know wouldn't be bothered in the least by laws such as these.

I was being scarcastic on my previous post because personally I believe both extremes in this argument are wrong.

Terrible news - these things do seem to happen, sadly, with regularity over there.

My thoughts are with the dead, injured, bereaved and the worried

Sorry to return to the gun control thing but just to clarify the UK's response to similar events:

Hungerford - loony goes on rampage with AK47 - result Auto / Semi-Auto banned (apart from .22) and S-A shotgun capacity restricted

Dumblane - loony goes on rampage in school - result hand guns banned from most private shooters (apart from a few oddities - black powder for instance and a few justifiable 'need' cases)

In both these situations there were operational failures in the policing of these individuals and their firearms but rather than take the local plod )who ignored reported concerns) to task the bans were introduced.

The point being we had restrictions / checks in place before both of these incidents and the cops failed to spot the loony+gun=trouble developing under their noses (and both were in small communities / rural areas).

FWIW there are still well over 1 million legally-held firearms in the UK so the idea the crims have all the guns is just plain wrong. They are much more likely to mis-use guns as they are, as pointed out above, criminals.

bush minor is already scheduled to start milking via a statement to be made in a couple hours. Just as soon as they sober him up enough to make a coherent (well for him anyway) statement.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Oh i see, so "you" can express your opinion and I can't?...

Tell you what, I did not insult you but yes, you among some others are using this to impose your views on gun control and "self righteousness", and i can say whatever I damn please because I also got rights to express my opinion...got it?...

Ermm... did i say you couldn't express an opinion?
No i didn't either. like you, i feel this event is a tragedy and we've both expressed an opinon how it should be prevented in the future. Correct? I fail to see how i have said that you cannot express a view. really i didn't.

if i did, i am sorry, but just cause i don't agree with you doesn't mean i have a "self righteousness" agenda.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite
you know what,

we had one school shooting in the United Kingdom, back in 1996...we have a right to bear arms under our Bill of Rights 1689...but you what we did? restricted the sell of firearms and even banned certain types. No school shooting since.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, we do have a gun problem still with gangs, but we are putting more tougher laws through Parliament.

Thats what I don't understand about the United States, you can still keep "the right to bear arms", but restrictions should be put in place to protect certain people.




[edit on 16-4-2007 by infinite]

Here we go again.

Too bad the sheeple of the UK apparently do not yet understand - that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens does not also take them away from criminals.

It just leaves the law abiding citizens defenseless, because - as every thinking person understands - the police investigate crimes that have already happened, they do not prevent crimes from happening.

If a couple of legally armed and trained citizens had been allowed to be there, this may well have been a much smaller tragedy. But no, the gun laws we already have in the U.S. just created a "target rich environment" for this nutcase.

[edit on 4/16/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by vor78

Originally posted by Valombre
An other shooting. I know that in the Us constitution there is something about the right to have firearm. It's good to go hunting, not to protect your family.... Police is there for that. See what looses guns are doing. 32 persons dead 21 wounded in a school. Really need a good firearm control legislation.

The police don't have the resources to protect most people living in the United States. The country is simply too large for it to realistically be possible. In many rural areas, if you have to call the police, you may be lucky if they show up 30 minutes later. That doesn't help a whole lot.

If there weren't so many guns, there would be so much to protect, so they have more time for you.

Originally posted by Dr Love
Flyer

You're comparing apples to oranges. Americans have had a long established right to own guns. It's part of our heritage. It's not an easy thing to disarm millions of Americans. It could lead to anarchy and our government knows it. We tried prohibition once and it lead to the rise of organized crime. If we give up our guns the black market for weapons will increase a thousand fold.

You just can't compare the two countries on this issue.

Peace

I'd like to know how anyone thinks gun confiscation is feasible in the United States, anyway. Most estimates I've seen place about 200 million firearms in the hands of private owners. While I've never seen an official ammo estimate, I've heard it said that if production ceased today, there is enough ammo in the United States to last for 40 years at current rates of consumption.

As a practical matter, gun confiscation in the United States is impossible.

There's also an additional problem that you alluded to. The right to own firearms is considered to be an absolute by many in this country. Its part of our national heritage and is considered a birthright by many gunowners. An awful lot of those people aren't going to give that up without a fight.

President statement 4:15PM

Va Tech Press Conference 4:30PM both EST