Federal Officials: At Least 32 Dead After Virginia Tech University Shooting

Excellent post and welcome to ATS first off.

The problem is the US judicial and law enforcement system has a difficult time enforce the laws that exist and when they are exercised to the maximum, criminals get out of jail on many technicalities. For instance, investigators screwed up and didn't use proper procedure, he was read his rights, got off 10 of his 20 years for good behavior, prisons were over crowded so they let them out earlier, wasn't give due process in court - out instantly. Even if they put more curbs on guns our system in the USA is all about the money. I don't think people realize how much money is being made, in all facets. Most of the prisons in the USA are privately owned, it costs around $35,000 to $55,000 a year to house 1 inmate. Lawyers make tons, Judges make incredible amounts of money, with benefits, police make a good salary and everyone else involved.

I think people really miss the whole point. It's about the money.

Originally posted by lazuruswolf

If the US is going to control it's guns and the people who own them then they need to toughen the laws against those use them for illegal reasons such as criminals and gangs. People who own them for legitimate reasons should be allowed to keep them but must also be placed under strict regulation and also have secure places in their homes to keep the weapons secure. The UK made a big mistake going after the people who owned the guns legally and those who had them illegally still can access them with some ease given the right contacts.

No matter how you cut it, the reality is, if we as a society insist on the right to own guns, which we do, and that is not about to change, then we also have to accept the responsiblity inherent in that insistance, which is there is not only going to be gun violence, but there is going to be more of it than any other form of violence... BECAUSE IT IS IMPLICITLY SANCTIONED.... owning a gun, whether for hunting or defense is always about violence... no matter how you deny and obstruct, that is the bald faced truth.

Again I will remind people that I am not opposed to guns per say, but if we insist on being an armed nation both militarily and personally we have to accept these basic facts, to fail to do so is nothing short of denial.

Originally posted by grover
owning a gun, whether for hunting or defense is always about violence... no matter how you deny and obstruct, that is the bald faced truth.

If nobody hops my fence[strike 1], crosses my lawn[strike 2], and breaks in to my house[strike 3], I will never have a need to use my gun. That's about as "sanctioned" as you can get.

Grover we understand what your saying your not opposed to guns, your opposed to violence.

I would like to see it all stop myself, I have experienced and seen enough of it to last me for eternity.

Originally posted by grover
No matter how you cut it, the reality is, if we as a society insist on the right to own guns, which we do, and that is not about to change, then we also have to accept the responsiblity inherent in that insistance, which is there is not only going to be gun violence, but there is going to be more of it than any other form of violence... BECAUSE IT IS IMPLICITLY SANCTIONED.... owning a gun, whether for hunting or defense is always about violence... no matter how you deny and obstruct, that is the bald faced truth.

Grover I do understand your point about guns inciting people to act violently and that's very true. But there is also a moral course with this most normal and sane people and people who are not brainwashed by loyalties to gangs.I think you have to be really quite cold and insanely stupid as a person to raise a weapon at someone else who is unarmed or innocent and kill them

Okay the military and the civil authorities are trained to use them as a tool to carry out the job so called that they do I don't see anything wrong with that and think it's perfectly fair but I think you still have to have something inherently wrong with your mind to go and shoot innocent unarmed people for no reason and that's the crux of the whole issue that those who are unfit or ill need protection from guns and the weapons themselves need protection from the people who could use them for such means.

That is what has happened at the University was someone who had lost all sense of humanity was deluded with hatred for others and thought in what ever his mind was telling him at the time that by killing them and himself he was some how doing the world a favour sadly it's not turned out that way he was jealous and hated others who where better off than him and took innocent lives for no good reason and also this issue is far more complex than it first seems for any one to second guess or even know what do to do with regulating any type of weaponry period.

And money and power have a lot to do with it as well.

Again - 'guns' are not banned in the UK

I will keep posting that fact until some you actually bother to do some research: most pistols and almost all semi / full auto firearms were - in fact a few pistol licences are now being re-issued - but rifles and shotties are still availble to the sane and responsible.

Even before the ban there were strict owbership crieria, storage requirements & no right to carry in public. The idea we were all armed to the teeth one day and gunless the next is pure fantasy.

Back on track

It sems this guy had been referred psychiatrically due to his distrurbed behaviour

news.bbc.co.uk...

Given you almost universal access to arms surely there's a case for search and seizure of all weapons for those under psychiatric investigation?

I think this needs to be addressed now.

This person should not have been able to purchase a gun period.

Current Laws were not enforced, so why make new ones?

Gun Control Act of 1968

9) Congress established the federal regulatory foundation in the Gun Control Act of 1968,(10) which prohibits the sale of long guns (rifles and shotguns) and handguns to anyone who is: (1) not a resident of the state in which the federal firearms dealer does business;(11) or (2) under eighteen years old for long gun purchases and twenty-one years old for handguns.(12) In addition, the Act prohibits the sale of firearms to anyone who is: (1) under indictment for or has been convicted of a "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year";(13) (2) a fugitive from justice;(14) (3) an illegal narcotics user or addict;(15) and (4) either an adjudicated mental defective or someone who has been committed to a mental institution.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by Realtruth]

He was not adjucated as a mental defective, and he was not committed.

He was refered, and released. No law broken.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) regulation that defines "adjudicated as a mental defective" as "a determination by a court that a person, as a result of a mental illness, condition or disease (1) is a danger to himself or others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs." 27 C.F.R. §478.11.

www.abanet.org...

makeitso,

With all due respect I was a law enforcement officer for over 7 years I know basic local, state, and federal laws well. When someone has been committed to a mental institution, per federal Gun Control Act of 1968 they don't get a gun period.

The ATF regulation is trumped by all federal laws, because it is only a regulation that can be interpreted.

He was committed to a mental facility, end of story.

I disagree.

Prove it. Show me where he was committed.

He was refered, and released not committed.

calm down. Im not blaming video games. That would be fecetious and groundless. There isnt anything or anyone to blame other than the shooter.

I was trying to paint the blame game as it really is. Idiotic. Guns, games the schools, its all stupid.

Cho went nuts because Cho went nuts.

So relax and rest assured Im not trying to wrestle Gears of War out of your hands. Unless youre one of those idiots who take game time to try and climb out of the map or weapon slide all day long.

No I am not but it did sound like a bit of a dig at gamers. Sadly I've met a lot of do gooders or know it alls who harken on about games being bad and the vast majority of them have never even played let alone touched a so called "violent game" in their entire lives. No offence taken

Just in !!! The shooter sent a package to NBC containing video and a manifesto of sort's.Report's colnclude that it may of been sent between the 1st and 2nd shooting's.Unfortunately all the material has been given to the FBI before the media made it public so detail's will not be out for a while "if ever".

On another note they searched his dorm room and on the search warrant,it listed his dorm room number 2121,I found this rather strange 2+1=3,2+1=3 so we end up with the number 33 again.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by Samblak]

[edit on 18-4-2007 by Samblak]

Originally posted by Samblak
Just in !!! The shooter sent a package to NBC containing video and a manifesto of sort's.Report's colnclude that it may of been sent between the 1st and 2nd shooting's.Unfortunately all the material has been given to the FBI before the media made it public so detail's will not be out for a while "if ever".

On another note they searched his dorm room and on the search warrant,it listed his dorm room number 2121,I found this rather strange 2+1=3,2+1=3 so we end up with the number 33 again.

eh??

WTF?

source/link

[edit on 18-4-2007 by infinite]

Heres a link.

Gunman sent video, pics and letter to NBC

The gunman who killed 32 people at a US college sent a package containing writing, videos and photographs to NBC News in New York, it has emerged.

The package sent by Cho Seung-Hui has now been handed over for investigation.

NBC believes it was sent between the first and second shootings on Monday.

I'm glad to hear that NBC sent it straight to the FBI, i can think of many news networks that would have lowered thier standards enough to use this as an exclusive.

CX.

Thanks CX i was jsut hearing bits on the news about that and was like ??????

then they went on to something esle,

thats like really scary...

i am really freaked out

Yah,I believe it was NBC that had the search warrant that showed his room number to be 2121,also had a list of the thing's they took from his room.The number 2121 can create the number 33.

BREAKING: Gunman Sent Photos, Videos to NBC
CBNNews.com
April 18, 2007


CBNNews.com - The Virginia Tech gunman send a package containing photographs, videos and writings to NBC in New York before shooting himself after his rampage on campus that killed 32 people.

Officials said they believe the package was mailed between the first and second shootings. NBC said it turned the package over to the authorities Wednesday.

The contents included photos, video and a manifesto from the gunman, but no specifics have been revealed.

"This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation. We're in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evalute its worth," said Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police.

Source: NBC, Associated Press

He Warned The Media