Where is the '80% of Flight 93' in the crater?

Just for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this is the engine planted at the scene.



Pre-planted by agents or planted by the crashing 757? Does it match a 757 engine?
Questions I can't answer...

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

COMMENT REMOVED DUE TO SENSITIVE (SECURITY) NATURE.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

That gives me the spooks. I hope that doesn't start popping up in my posts. Or hope it does? MoD knows some stuff it seems.

I thought it improper to post that particular comment.

Going with the "it crashed" scenario for a moment, and taking the official stories line on it:

* Photos of indentation where it crashed
* A bit of wreckage in hole
* Eye witness testimony to watching it crash.

This invalidates any argument that it was shot down, because it would be so fragmented by the time it hit the earth, it wouldn't leave the imprint that it did.

It also invalidates the idea of a bomb being detonated from inside; this would leave debris, too.

If they really did have a bomb, how did they get it on the flight???

So..........

With it crashing into the hole, where is the debris? Metal doesn't just vanish. They should have about 95,000 lbs of it.

[edit on 20-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

I agree, there should be loads of metal and debris all over that field. It seems like the government really wants us to believe that Steel Buildings are actually made out of balsa wood, and airplanes are made out cardboard!!!! Same goes for the Pentagon, where are the photos of the parts!!! It truly is disturbing that after seeing the pictures of the Pentagon, and Shanksville, that the general public just doesn't stop to think on their own for a minute and invetigate anything. Instead, as long as the MSM reports it, it has be 100% correct!!!

I said I wouldn't get pulled back into 9/11, and this is going to be my only post on the topic, but a plane hit by a missile ISN'T necessarily going to blow apart into itty bitty pieces like in Iron Eagle and other Hollywood movies.

Here are pics of a DHL A300 that was hit by a MANPADS shoulder fired missile in Iraq on take off.







And a good page that talks about the effects of a missile hitting a plane.
www.aerospaceweb.org...

Here is a C-5 that was hit by a MANPADS in Iraq.





A Stinger MANPADS type missile has around a 6.5-7lb warhead. A Sidewinder fired from a fighter has a warhead that's about 20lbs. It's a bigger warhead, but it is usually on a proximity fuse, so it detonates NEAR the plane without having to actually HIT the plane. So you're not getting the entire 20lbs of explosives going off against the plane. It's going to go off near the plane and send shrapnel all over the sky. By using a proximity fuse it increases the kill range of the missile. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to blow the plane into pieces.

An IR missile shot from behind is going to home in on the engines. That would be the hottest part of the plane the missile can see.

Originally posted by Vinadetta
It seems like the government really wants us to believe that Steel Buildings are actually made out of balsa wood, and airplanes are made out cardboard!!!!

Same goes for the Pentagon, where are the photos of the parts!!! It truly is disturbing that after seeing the pictures of the Pentagon, and Shanksville, that the general public just doesn't stop to think on their own for a minute and invetigate anything. Instead, as long as the MSM reports it, it has be 100% correct!!!

I find that part scary. Are people really that blind to what is going on, or they afraid of what they might discover if they found the truth?

Remember the Pan Am flight that was blown up? Ripped the fuselage to pieces. It fell out of the sky from 30,000 ft. There was lots of visible wreckage.

What a bomb does to an aircraft:

www.alexisparkinn.com...

Some background on the test: www.cashill.com...

[edit on 20-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

But there have also been bombings that did very LITTLE damage to a plane as well. The Philippine Airlines 747 that Ramsi Yousef bombed in 1994 as a test for Operation Bojinka only killed one person. And several that were bombed landed safely with just small holes in them. A bomb isn't necessarily going to blow the plane apart either. It can sever the control cables sending them out of control and causing them to crash without blowing the plane apart. Or a loss of hydraulics.

I'm not doubting that there has, but within the context of Flight 93 and the lack of evidence, what were being told to believe etc.. then if it was shot down or blown up, it has to result in a lack of evidence.

I don't think it was shot down (if it was, the pilot that shot it down would have been publicly honored for his role in helping prevent a terrorist attack in the face of very difficult circumstances). That didn't happen, so as far as I'm concerned, that is off the table.

The official story is pushing the idea it crashed vertically into the earth, after the passengers took over the aircraft. There is no mention that a bomb detonated, so this idea is off the table, too.

So.....

* Why little debris if the crash was so tidy?
* What is with the "it was blown up" theories?

I see a distinct lack of evidence either way.

[edit on 20-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

There was a crash report I read several years ago of an A-6 Intruder that crashed in a similar manner, in a similar ground type. When investigators arrived, the first question they all asked was "Where's the plane?" The 6+ foot long engines were compressed to less than 2 feet and there were no identifiable parts of the airframe left intact above the ground. They had to dig something like 3-4 feet to start finding parts they could identify.

A great example! Where are the parts from Flight 93??

There is no 757 in there, its imposible to fit a 757 and passengers with lugagge on that space, just the abcence of luggag eis proof enough....

anyone who has been to an accident knows that lugage and seat holders are everywhere..

Originally posted by Quackmaster
They did not find debris 8 miles away. The muppets who quoted those figures used mapping software to calculate distances and then quoted the drive distance.

As the crow flew it was a little over a mile - just look at a map, it's not rocket science.

If ever you lot do prove any of this stuff, what exactly are you going to do with it?

Dear Master Quack,

Debris was reported in New Baltimore, PA, which is 8 miles away, give or take. Debris was also reported retrieved from Indian Lake, which is over a mile away. Check Google maps.

If somebody ever proves the official story false, what are YOU going to do with it?

Nick: I recall hearing of the far-scattered debris and found it interesting but heard it was "de-bunked" or something and all I've seen pics of is from the Shanksville site. Do you have links, photos, etc to illustrate this or any answer to the debunkers? I'd like to know where the actual evidence stands on debris spread.

Anybody find any of the 80% of UA93 in that crater beside just dirt?

Aluminum skin? Tires? Rims? Landing gear? Wire? Seats? Luggage? Body parts? Blood? Huh know, stuff you'd expect to find in a commercial plane crash?

www.post-gazette.com...

According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and Melanie Hankinson, there was debris 8 miles away from the crater.

From above link:

The village of New Baltimore is a dozen or more miles by automobile but eight as the wind blows, which it was doing a year ago. Melanie Hankinson was at the church next to her home, transfixed before a television that showed the World Trade Center ablaze, when the man who sprays her lawn stopped by to tell her he was finding odd things in the weeds.

"He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville.

For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports.

"And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner.

"A couple more miles and it could have been here," Hankinson said. Those words have been spoken in straight lines emanating in every direction from the strip mine where Flight 93 rent the earth.

I'd heard that most of it had ended up in the bottom of some lagoon or lake near there, and is why no debris was found at the primary crash site (?!). Not sure if it was yet another wild theory though.

What parts were allegedly found 8 miles away, and how do they explain how they got there??

As always, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
I'd heard that most of it had ended up in the bottom of some lagoon or lake near there, and is why no debris was found at the primary crash site (?!). Not sure if it was yet another wild theory though.

There are dozens of small lakes in the area (more like ponds) and one large lake, Indian Lake. Indian Lake is over 1 mile due east of the crater, and residents reported finding mostly paper debris and insulation.

What parts were allegedly found 8 miles away, and how do they explain how they got there??

Supposedly they found paper and insulation. The explanation is the wind blew the debris 8 miles.

As always, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Too bad you weren't on the 9/11 Commission...

[edit on 8-5-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

If the plane was shot down, why?


If they are not willing to shoot down a second plane into the WTC or Pentagon that killed 1500 lives or so, why would they shoot this one down? What target was it heading for that is more valuable than 1500+ lives?


If it hit the white house which is what I hear all the time was its destination, the white house was surely evacuated and the president was in the air and the vice pres was surely gone... So what was the intended target for Flight 93 that was worth shooting it down and covering it up for?

Thanks for that info Nick, very useful - eight miles as the wind blows, papers and such. Seems a long way to me after a ground crash, more likely a mid-air explosion. Or they coulda been scattered by a special effects team, who knows...

Mostly what I was wondering was larger debris, like the engine I heard was found __ miles away, later said to be an engine part only... We've seen one engine buried at the site, and if it WERE shot down, hitting an engine would be the way I think. I'm wondering where this was found relative to its trajectory, before or after the crash point, and what it really was. I'd look it up myself but I've got other things to do, so do you know the score on that?

And again, welcome back to the forums!

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Just for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this is the engine planted at the scene.

Pre-planted by agents or planted by the crashing 757? Does it match a 757 engine?
Questions I can't answer...

Pre-planted? Try post-planted:




killtown.blogspot.com...