Cant We Just Accept Them?

I believe that nationalization and welfare rights for cryptos is, in fact, the real problem here.

Seriously, we've got to get that one on the debate forum.

Awesome.


For the record, I don't think any public money should be spent on locating bigfoot or nessie or...well maybe mothman.

There's a sense of mystery that would be extinguished if those things are found...a purity that the federal government would irrevocably soil without thinking twice.

Originally posted by dave_54
Every nation in the world is allowed and encouraged by the UN to control their borders. So now it is wrong to do what the UN says?

America has never done what the UN says to do, just look at the current war.

Sorry to the OP, didnt mean to hijack this thread.

Originally posted by enjoies05
I wish people would try and accept them instead of just saying they don't exist. Why can't there be a bigfoot? Why can't there be aliens? Why does everything have to be boring? Why can't people think there is some kind of magical place where these things exist?


Why wouldn't people like to think they exist? Just to be boring?

it's not really a question of whether we'd like them to, it's a case of whether they do.
the realm of folklore is designed to entertain, the world of science to discover.
it would be lovely if the two could live in peace and harmony (plays a flute), but sadly both camps can often suffer from blindess when it comes to beliefs.
if your comment was directed towards us sceptics, i'd have to answer thusly:

why can't there be a bigfoot? there's no hard and fast proof on this, so all we're debating is our own opinions. it's perfectly fine to believe they exist or that they do not. until someone finds one and shows it to us, nobody can prove us sceptics 'wrong'.

however, this is a bit like richard dawkin's teapot theory - "there's a teapot floating above the earth. no really! evidence? well NASA had a photograph of it but they airbrushed it out."

you can't prove a statement like this to be false, because there is no evidence. however the probability of this being true can be gauged, and although it will never be fully accepted by most sceptics, there will always be some who entertain a theory. until someone finds this magical floating teapot, there would - in this analogy - always be believers, and sceptics.

in answer to your question "why does everything have to be boring", i just can not get my head around that! the world is the most un-boring place ever. there's a wealth of strange, beautiful wonderful creatures to find, learn about, draw, observe, conserve... there are breathtaking geological formations to wonder at, the psychologies of animals (including our own) to study, complexities such as evolution, extinctions and mutations to figure out.
all in all, just because one of your favourite cryptids might not exist, doesn't mean that the world is 'boring'.
i suggest starting your quest to find the world more interesting by going to amazon and buying the DK Publishing book 'Animal'. it's a big bugger, it's full of pictures, it's glossy and all the info is bite-size so it's an easy read.

i'd hate to think you'd give up on the world just because some of us don't believe in aliens!

xx

IMO and from reading a little about genes and chromosomes....there is not a big enough gene pool for these *creatures* to exist...if there was a big enough gene pool then we would see evidence...i.e carcasses...we all know what happens when inbreeding happens and that is the only way these *creatures* would be able to survive for 1000`s of years(unless they have a gene that allows them to live for 1000`s of years which would also need to include a gene that allows stem cells to reproduce for 1000`s of years)...how big do you think Loch Ness is...its not big enough to support a lot of Loch Ness monsters with a big enough gene pool to survive for centuries...deformation would be rife and reproduction would be almost impossible for the species as a whole...now i am only refering to the loch ness monster and i know north america is a big place...but there would be REAL solid proof of species of the size of sasquatch living in north amerca...IMHO its all myth and folklore started by the those with high imaginations and drunks and the like(usually to get out of a sticky situation).

hooray! a python fan!

yes, i often get disheartened with the lack of proper logical thinking done on the subject of these 'high-profile' cryptids. although sometimes logic can be totally fluffed by later discoveries, it's pretty unlikely that it will in these cases.

as you say, the gene pool stretch would be too great, the area is too small, the timeframe too long, and then there is the shape of nessie to consider. long-necked sea animals are usually equipped thusly to reach a food source out of their body's range. the body itself might well be lumbering and ill-equipped for fast movement, which would explain the need for a long, flexible neck.
but to feed an animal this size, loch ness would have quickly run out of fish! especially if - and if it really exists this would have to be a certainty - there were more than one!
the loch may be a large place, but it's also landlocked, and for something that apparently breathes air to have no been seen by the millions of tourists en-mass with videocameras is unthinkable. (i'm aware of the amount of 'evidence' that has been submitted to the public domain, but let's be honest - digital video cameras with high quality zooms and crisp, smooth lines, auto-correction for lighting, gamma control, contrast etc... it's virtually impossible to take a bad video/photo these days!)
as for bigfoot, my least favourite subject due to the fuzzy hype surrounding it, i seriously doubt, in an area with no native primates, that this creature could have evolved.
with half a billion treks, hunts, sweeps, expeditions being undertaken every few seconds (yes, exaggeration is a wonderful replacement for sarcasm!) i really do find it increasingly difficult to believe it exists.

...but that's not to say these cryptids don't

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Batty]

Thanks Batty....i have not posted on ATS for a while now because it seems to have gone downhill on the ATS motto...i have not read a lot of replies from the like of Byrd and Marduk(real solid thinkers and debaters)on many debates but when i read this i thought OMW(oh my word not on my way) but when i read this i though i have to reply(also got a lot on my mind at the moment so wanted to read)..but thanks for the reply...made me feel good and i needed that.

back to the subject at hand

quote
"yes, i often get disheartened with the lack of proper logical thinking done on the subject of these 'high-profile' cryptids. although sometimes logic can be totally fluffed by later discoveries, it's pretty unlikely that it will in these cases."

you got that right...the only recent case i can think of is coelacanth
en.wikipedia.org...
but we are talking of a reasonably unexplored region of the OCEANS...not a forest in North America or a lake in Scotland

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Heratix]

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Heratix]

Originally posted by krax
I personally believe in the chupacabre etc, but it is a well known fact that people would rather believe adventure over reason, also there has never been 100% proof on any legendary creatures.

what about dragons????

sorry, i'm a newb and i'm checking out all these forum subjects and happened to come across this one-keep in mind that these "legendary creatures are reported by more than one culture-i'm not saying i believe all of them, but some may be truer than you think....

welcome to the forum

well, the fact that similar creatures have been documented in more than one culture's folklore is definitely interesting. most of us spend the majority of our cryptid studies on this type of subject.
from my own studies, plus backups from documentaries that have addressed the subject briefly (i've never managed to find a whole doc on the subject), the myth of dragons has been found all over the world for one simple reason - dinosaurs and digging. as you may well know to this day there are herbalists in china that make their concoctions with dinosaur bones, believing them to be dragon bones.

some people have begun experimenting with the idea that most of these 'far-fetched' cryptids are the products of genetic memory inherited from our primate ancestors (maybe even farther back) and fear of death. if you examine alot of these myths there is usually something sinister and/or morbid connected to these creatures.

another theory is purely misidentification of known species.
the most famous case of this is the turtle! i'll edit this post later when i've wiki'd and found the whole story for you, but basically the first seamen to see a turtle drew a wildly innacurate picture of it, and took it back to their country. for a long time people believed it to be huge and monstrous!

whichever theory you embrace, the subject is full of constant surprises and interest

Dragons are not the only mythical beasts that have origins all around the world. Vampires, shapeshifters (such as werewolves), ghosts/spirits, zombies, and sea serpents also have cousins from different countries across the globe. But, this doesn't prove their existence. It just proves that many people have a common fear of certain things, such as wild animals, the deep ocean, or the supernatural.

I'm sorry for that rant, but I believe in an America that still has the motto "Give me your tired, your poor, your weak, your hungry..."

I didn't realize that "motto" was in the Constitution and had the power and force of Law. Oh wait, it doesn't? That's right.

Originally posted by Nicorette
I didn't realize that "motto" was in the Constitution and had the power and force of Law. Oh wait, it doesn't? That's right.

Hehehe, delayed reaction much?

The way I see it, illegal immigrants have a much lower rate of crime than normal citizens. They also work more hours than the average American citizen, and they bring business and culture with them. So why are you so paranoid? Stop listening to all that propaganda and stupid talk about a $44 Billion dollar fence that would be ineffective and create hostility between America and Mexico.

lol where the heck did that topic come from?
sorry if i've unwittingly bumped this thread btw!

i'm presuming the OP hasn't returned to ATS since this thread? once again i've got to say i will never understand why people who aren't interested in facts are always trying to dissuade the rest of us from the pursuit.